Source: Reported in "Statistical Abstract of the United States," Bureau of the Census, 1961.
Original source: United Nations Statistical Yearbook.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

The gentleman from Minnesota?

Mr. NELSEN. I noticed in the paper this morning that in the District of Columbia the instances of babies dying at birth and after 1 year of age was probably the highest in the United States; I think 27 out of 1,000, is that the figure?

Dr. SHANNON. That figure sounds reasonable, sir. It is quite high. Mr. NELSEN. And some of that was probably due to the laws under which we operate in the District of Columbia. Has there been any thought given to some recommendations that might be considered before the Congress relative to the correction of this particular case? Dr. SHANNON. Mr. Nelsen, I would say that this is in the area of particular concern to the Children's Bureau. They are concerned with developing mechanisms for the provision of modern services. This, again, would be in the area of application of knowledge. As I said earlier, it is my conviction it is not the lack of knowledge

Mr. NELSEN. I understand that. I was wondering if there is some way we could motivate this, because obviously it is something that can easily be taken care of if someone takes the initiative. I happen to be on the District of Columbia Committee.

Mr. JONES. I think, Mr. Chairman, that perhaps a discussion with representatives of the Children's Bureau might be productive of suggestions as to how this might be brought about.

Mr. NELSEN. Thank you very much.

No more questions.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Florida.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. As I understand it, we presently now have a Center for Child Health and a Center for Aging. These would be combined to form a new Institute, is that true?

Mr. JONES. Á new Institute would be formed, Mr. Rogers, and these two administrative units would become a part of the new Institute, but would not comprise the entire operation, by any means. Mr. ROGERS of Florida. I see, it would just be a portion of it? Mr. JONES. That is right; yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Where would the new Institute be located, at the National Institutes of Health?

Mr. JONES. At Bethesda; yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Would it require a new building?
Mr. JONES. Not at the moment.

Dr. SHANNON. Mr. Rogers, could I comment on that?

First, may I say that our initial plans for the Institute would be to develop it primarily as an extramural operation.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. As extramural?

Dr. SHANNON. Yes, sir.

We would not propose to establish within the Bethesda area wholly new laboratories and wholly new functions. We do have at the present time a substantial research activity in Bethesda, and the stimulus of this new Institute might well result in broadening existing interests in these fields.

We would not anticipate the development of new institutional units in this area in the near future, although some existing activities may be transferred at a later date. Since the early 1940's, for example, we have sponsored a gerontological unit in association with the Baltimore city hospitals in Baltimore. A building program was authorized there last year.

This program currently is being conducted by the Heart Institute. We would not propose to transfer this operation immediately, but, at a later time, when the framework of administration has been established, we would expect to transfer it to the new Institute.

The administrative structure of the new Institute most certainly would be in Bethesda.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Yes.

Dr. SHANNON. But this would be a limited operation to support program development, planning, grant administration, and training

programs.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. What additional personnel do you think would be necessary?

Dr. SHANNON. We have not calculated that precisely because, for one thing, it will be determined by the fate of these hearings. We will put it into dollars first and then reduce it to individuals later.

We believe that with the program envisaged for this Institute, additional administrative costs, including support for the Institute Director's office, the special training programs, things like that, could come as high as half a million dollars.

We figure that about half of this would be for administrative expenditures other than personnel costs. The remaining $250,000, assuming an average salary of about $5,000, would provide 50 people, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. These are additional people?

Dr. SHANNON. Those would be additional people; yes, sir. I would not like to be held to that figure, but this is in the orderMr. ROGERS of Florida. This is your thinking presently? Dr. SHANNON. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. What would be your contemplated budget? And, again, I realize this is still in the formative stage.

Dr. SHANNON. At the present time we would not request any supplemental budget. We would expect to transfer approximately $4 to $5 million for grants in the area of gerontology; of the total of $40 million expended on child health and human development, we would transfer about $20 million. Since our general research grant program in the President's budget would be increased by about 15 percent, we

would hope that in the areas of the new Institute, such general support would increase by some 20 or 25 percent, since it is a new activity but we would not propose new funds at this time, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Do you do intramural research at the Center for Child Health and the Center for Aged now?

Dr. SHANNON. We do not, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. There is none?

Dr. SHANNON. These are staff offices which have information and communication responsibilities. In addition to maintaining an awareness of the current research efforts in their fields, they attempt to identify areas of deficit and to stimulate needed programs. They do not now do work themselves, sir.

Mr ROGERS of Florida. Do you work your grant recommendations through these centers?

Dr. SHANNON. No, sir.

The normal grant mechanisms obtain. That is, grant applications go through the normal dual review: technical review by study section; policy review by council.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. What is the main function now at this Center for Children and Center for Aging?

Dr. SHANNON. The main function now is to maintain an awareness of current research activities in this area at the present time, so that this information can be made available to interested institutions and investigators.

Secondly, they analyze such activities from the standpoint of the state of our knowledge in this field, and identify those areas that would appear to warrant special emphasis. They then attempt through appropriate means to stimulate the desired research activity. Mr. ROGERS of Florida. What do you anticipate will be done at the Institute of General Medical Sciences?

Dr. SHANNON. Basically it would be a continuation of the current activity. We would envisage no addition to that which is already there. I might characterize this as comparable to the proposal to elevate the Special Assistant to the position of Assistant Secretary. In the Institute proposal, this is an area which has sufficient importance to dignify it by giving it Institute status.

Now it should have its own Council which can advise the Surgeon General on activities in the developmental field, an area of special competence of Council members. This would be preferable to providing such review by a Council which has many other responsibilities.

These specified fields of interest might be considered generally supportive to all categorical activities. To mention a few examples, fundamental research in biochemistry, in pharmacology, training in biochemistry and pharmacology, is conducted within this Division of General Medical Science. This is not to say that biochemistry is not important to heart, to cancer, to mental health, and down the line. Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Yes.

Dr. SHANNON. But we have recognized that we cna develop and run a harder hitting, more effective program when some of these areas common to all categorical programs are placed in one organizational unit.

Mr. JONES. Mr. Rogers, may I comment at this point?

It was the unanimous recommendation of the National Advisory Health Council, itself, that this Division which it served be made an Institute and be given its own Council.

This meant that the National Advisory Health Council would give up a job which it has been doing and thoroughly enjoyed. I had the privilege of serving on this Council for several years prior to my current assignment here.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. This work is presently being carried on in what administrative agency?

Mr. JONES. In an administrative unit which is given the title "Division of General Medical Sciences."

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. What is the present budget for this Division?

Mr. JONES. About $143 million, roughly.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. As I understand it, this does not deal in the specific diseases that you have the other Institutes operating in? Mr. JONES. It deals with the basic, underlying biological data, disciplines, upon which the categorical programs generally rest, and on programs that are important to the categorical institutes but not related directly to any one of them.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Now, what would be your anticipated budget? Do you anticipate an increase in any significant amount? Mr. JONES. Yes; there is proposed in the President's budget an increase of from about $121 million to $143 million, approximately $22 million in the President's budget which has now been presented. But this would be an increase not occasioned by the change of status, but only by the normal development of the program itself.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Are there any further buildings contemplated that would be needed for this particular Institute?

Dr. SHANNON. No, sir.

Mr. JONES. I might say, in general, Mr. Rogers, it is the feeling of the NIH, and I think of the Public Health Service and of the Department, that the National Institutes of Health, in terms of the operation at Bethesda, is reaching an optimum size, and that the extension of its programs will be primarily in the extramural support of research and training that goes on in some thousand institutions of the country.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Is any intramural research now done in this Division?

Mr. JONES. Yes, in a limited sense.

In the Division of Biological Sciences.

Dr. SHANNON. This is a fairly complex appropriation, sir.

In the Division of General Medical Sciences, there is no direct research. But in the appropriation category that covers the Division, which is called General Research and Services, we do include support for the Division of Biological Standards. This would be left as it is. Mr. ROGERS of Florida. And what is that budget.?

Dr. SHANNON. In round figures, that is $3 million in the current budget year.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Your own intramural research?

Dr. SHANNON. This is really a control activity, sir, which has the responsibility of assuring purity, safety, and potency of all biologicals that go into interstate commerce in this country

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Where is that activity carried on?

Dr. SHANNON. At Bethesda, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. At Bethesda?
Dr. SHANNON. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Do you anticipate an increase in personnel if this new Institute on Medical Sciences is created?

Dr. SHANNON. No, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. You do not anticipate such a need?
Dr. SHANNON. No.

There will be an increase in part-time consulting personnel. We must distinguish between these two types of personnel. But in terms of full-time staff members, no, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. And you are requesting no additional personnel?

Dr. SHANNON. We are not, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. As I understood it, with the other Institute on Child Health and Human Development, you probably would request additional personnel in the amount of 50?

Dr. SHANNON. This would be approximately correct, sir; yes.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. And what do you anticipate is your administrative increase cost?

Dr. SHANNON. I would say approximately a half million dollars. Mr. ROGERS of Florida. About a half million?

Dr. SHANNON. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. That would take care of both Institutes? Dr. SHANNON. I believe so, yes, sir.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. I have been getting some mail recently and you probably have had questions on this, too. I thought you might just clear it up for us.

In what institute or in what division is this research on this love of monkey for mother or something? Give us a little explanation on that, how that got started.

Dr. SHANNON. Mr. Rogers, this newspaper article was a source of very acute embarrassment to the National Institutes of Health, the Public Health Service, and the Department. It relates to the activities of a Professor Harlow at the University of Wisconsin, who, beyond any doubt, is one of the outstanding investigators of behavioral sciences in this country. This grant was reviewed and handled through the National Institute of Mental Health.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Mental health; I see.

Dr. SHANNON. And the initial news release was misleading. It tended to prejudice the reader to the point of judging such research as stupid on the face of it.

But I can assure you, sir, that this is some of the more penetrating, some of the more important, investigative work that is going on. As a matter of fact, it has some relevance to the bill that you are considering, because it relates to the emotional development of the child.

The ultimate purpose of such research is to acquire new information about the normal emotional development of the child. Such investigations can be conducted with humans or with experimental models. For some types of inquiry, the use of experimental models is preferable. Research activities involving evaluation of emotions are frequently reported to the lay public in terms they understand, such as "love," "hate," "mother care," and the like. Čonsequently, the layman feels. more capable of judging such research than he would of physiological or pathological subjects which necessarily involve technical terminology.

I think it is unfortunate that in this case a very highly technical study, aimed at a fundamental investigation of certain general patterns