I would dislike very much to have to ask anyone to leave the room. Mr. PATMAN. It will be too stuffy in here if that door is closed. Chairman PLOESER. On Mr. Patman's left is Mr. Ballinger of the committee's staff, Mr. Maddren of the committee's staff, and Mr. Foristel of my office.

Now, Mr. Patman?

Mr. PATMAN. Mr. Chairman, I wanted to get my status straight in this case.

When the committee was selected, of course you were selected chairman, and four Republican members and four Democratic members were selected, and I was of course the ranking Democratic member.

As customary and usual, the chairman conferred with me, as the ranking minority member, on the questions of procedures.

It is my understanding, and I want to get my understanding correct, if I am correct, that when the subcommittees were agreed upon in this room, it was agreed that the chairman would not be on a subcommittee, neither would I be on a subcommittee, but we would be privileged to serve on any of them at any time at any place.

Chairman PLOESER. The gentleman will recall, and the minutes of the committee will reveal, that the first subcommittee appointed included both the gentleman from Texas and the chairman. That was Subcommittee No. 1.

And it was agreed upon by the gentleman from Texas, and it was unanimously approved by the committee.

It was further understood that at the hearings of any subcommittee all members of the committee were welcome to attend. That did not mean that they, of course, had any voting rights on the subcommittee. Naturally not.

However, in the case, as I have stated in my opening statement, in the case of this subcommittee, anxious to have a quorum, and realizing principally the inability of Mr. Keogh to be here, the Chair has appointed, as he is authorized to do by the original resolution of the committee, unanimously passed, a substitute committee to act in the place of the regular committee for these 2 days.

Mr. PATMAN. That is the point I am getting at. Is that just for these 2 days or for the entire trip?

Chairman PLOESER. That is for these 2 days. I am hopeful that the regular committee will take over its duties afterward.

Mr. PATMAN. My activity will be determined by my authority in the future.

If I am restricted to 2 days of authority in this investigation, and then when we go to Seattle, if I am not permitted to interrogate witnesses and I cannot act as a member of the committee, there is no use for me to go to Seattle or these other places.

If I am considered a member of this committee, that is fine. Chairman PLOESER. Of course, in view of the courtesy which has always been followed, both by the gentleman when he was chairman of the committee, to the ranking Republican, and the courtesy since that time, it is my understanding that the ranking member approves appointments of subcommittees.

When I appointed you to this subcommittee, I assumed you would approve yourself, so I did not attempt to clear it with you.

Any new appointments will be cleared with you, as I have done in the past, and as you did as my predecessor.

Mr. PATMAN. That is fine, Mr. Chairman, but I still want to know what my status will be after tomorrow? Will I be a member of this committee investigating cooperatives?

Chairman PLOESER. That is not within my province to define. It has never been ordained that I could prophesy what the gentleman's status will be in the future.

Mr. PATMAN. Of course, if I am not permitted to interrogate witnesses

Chairman PLOESER. No one has said you will not be permitted to interrogate witnesses.

Mr. PATMAN. Well, for the first 2 days it is very clear, but the remainder of the time it is not clear.

Chairman PLOESER. If it is possible for the regular committee to continue its hearings in the regular way, it will do it, and if you and I attend we will have to make our interrogation at the courtesy of that subcommittee. I would not presume to usurp its authority.

Mr. PATMAN. Well, I do not know whether I would be justified in going to a committee hearing when I did not have the power.

Chairman PLOESER. That is a matter for the gentleman to decide for himself.

May we proceed now?

Mr. PATMAN. One other question.

Since different cooperatives have been called upon to give full and complete reports, about 46, I believe, which were enumerated in the committee's release

Chairman PLOESER. The subject is not before the committee this morning.

Mr. PATMAN. They have been brought in.

I want to ask the chairman for unanimous consent that the National Tax Equality Association be called upon for a complete statement of its receipts, contributors, and disbursements of the past 2 years.

Let me explain that: I ask that for the reason that they are the principal opponents of the cooperatives in this country. They have been spearheading the operation.

That association is the principal opponent, and since it is, we would like to know who is fighting the cooperatives, and we will find out if we get that statement.

I ask unanimous consent. I think it is perfectly fair. The cooperatives filed their report, and I think it is fair that their opponents likewise be called upon to file their reports.

I ask the chairman for unanimous consent.

Chairman PLOESER. Does the gentleman feel that is relevant to the Greenbelt hearing?

Mr. PATMAN. Yes, I do. I think it is part of it.

Chairman PLOESER. The gentleman has asked unanimous consent. Any objection?

So ordered.

Mr. PATMAN. All right.

Chairman PLOESER. Has the gentleman anything further to state before we proceed with the regular business of the committee? Mr. PATMAN. I think not, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman PLOESER. Mr. Ballinger will conduct the questioning for the committee.

At the conclusion of his questioning of any witness, the committeemen then, in regular order of seniority, will be asked to ask any questions that they may care to.

It has been agreed unanimously by the committee members, and that will be the procedure for the 2 days.

Mr. Ballinger, you may proceed.

Mr. BALLINGER. I wish to call as the first witness the Honorable Dillon S. Myer, Commisisoner of the Federal Public Housing Authority, who is here.

Chairman PLOESER. Mr. Myer?

Mr. BALLINGER. Will you swear the witness?

Chairman PLOESER. Mr. Myer, will you raise your right hand? Stand, please.

Mr. MYER. If I can.

Chairman PLOESER. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mr. MYER. I do.

TESTIMONY OF DILLON S. MYER, COMMISSIONER, PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITY, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. BALLINGER. Commissioner, first let us get just a few facts into the record about Greenbelt.

Chairman PLOESER. Pardon me, may I interrupt?

I have granted permission to Mr. Arent to sit at the committee table, but that permission does not extend to anyone else except those officially in the conduct of this hearing, so I will have to ask

Mr. ARENT. Mr. Chairman, may I have the one representative of the entire Greenbelt organization who has the facts most clearly at hand to sit next to me?

Chairman PLOESER. I thought you were the representative.

Mr. ARENT. As counsel I get material by hearsay.

Chairman PLOESER. It is granted then.

Mr. BALLINGER. Commissioner, when was the Greenbelt project con

ceived and work begun on it?

Mr. MYER. 1935, in October of 1935 work was begun.

Mr. BALLINGER. When was the place first opened?

Mr. MYER. September 1937.

Mr. BALLINGER. How many units were opened at that time?

Mr. MYER. I am not sure whether I can tell you the exact number. Mr. BALLINGER. Do you wish to have Mr. Warmack sit next to you? Mr. MYER. At that time. There was a total of 886 opened at that time, and shortly after and between that time and let us say the first of the following year.

Mr. BALLINGER. And that town was known as Old Greenbelt, is that right?

Mr. MYER. It is so known now.

Mr. BALLINGER. It is so known now?

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Mr. BALLINGER. Now, when were the 885 units fully completed? Do you know that?

Mr. MYER. I think they were fully occupied by December of 1937 as I remember it. I would have to check that.

Mr. BALLINGER. The whole 885 units were complete?

Mr. MYER. That is my understanding.

Mr. BALLINGER. Now we have out in Greenbelt what is known as New Greenbelt. Will you explain that to the committee?

Mr. MYER. During the war period there was a war housing project built on some of the land that was purchased for the Greenbelt project originally. One thousand units of housing were built under the Lanham Act, Public Law 849, for use for civilian war workers, and that has become a part of the general pattern of Greenbelt.

Mr. BALLINGER. Did the Lanham Act provide merely funds for the building of houses, or also funds for the furnishing of facilities for the town, or houses that were built.

Mr. MYER. The Lanham Act provides for the construction of houses and any necessary facilities that might be required in the operation of that house.

Mr. BALLINGER. And any necessary facilities that might be required. What do you estimate is the population of the town today?

Mr. MYER. Slightly over 7,000 people, about 7,100 is the best estimate we have.

Mr. BALLINGER. Have you any estimate on the income of Old Greenbelt? Average income per family unit?

In other words this town I believe, Commissioner, was constructed for people with modest incomes. Have you any idea what modest income means, or meant at the time it was built?

Mr. MYER. Well, at the time it was built, I think I can be a little more definite on that.

Mr. BALLINGER. Yes.

Mr. MYER. At the time that Greenbelt was established and the first rentals and first occupation of Greenbelt was had, the upper limit on income was at that time, $2,200. That has been changed from time to time with the change in the price level. As I remember it the average income of Greenbelt today is around $3,600.

Mr. BALLINGER. You also administer slum clearance and projects related to those, is that not right, Federal Public Housing?

Mr. MYER. We administer the United States Housing Act of 1937 which provides for slum clearance and low-rent housing.

Mr. BALLINGER. People who occupy low-rent houses are supposed to have low income or a limit thus put on them. You started out with $2,200. That is modest income. What would you consider as slumclearance income?

Mr. MYER. I would like to point out that the income of 1937 would not be comparable to income of 1947.

Mr. BALLINGER. Yes.

Mr. MYER. Generally speaking the average top figure for families of low income for entrance for low-rent housing would be $1,800 to $1,900. Mr. BALLINGER. $1,800 to $1,900. Thank you.

Mr. MYER. That is right.

Mr. BALLINGER. Today you estimate the population as about 7,100. Mr. MYER. That is correct.

Mr. BALLINGER. You have never made a census of the town?

Mr. MYER. Not as such, no. There has been a partial census made here and there, and of course, there was a census in 1940 after the town was occupied, which showed at that time slightly over 2,800 people in

the project, but that was before the 1,000 units of war housing were constructed.

Mr. BALLINGER. Now, would you mind breaking that population up so that we can get, if possible, your estimate of the population of Old Greenbelt and your estimate of the population of New Greenbelt?

Mr. MYER. The approximate population of Old Greenbelt today is around 3,100 and in the war-housing project, 4,000.

Mr. BALLINGER. Now when was the war-housing project begun? Mr. MYER. Just a moment. July of 1941 and-yes, that is correct, July of 1941.

Mr. BALLINGER. When were the houses completed?

Mr. MYER. I believe the last houses were occupied in April of 1943.
Mr. BALLINGER. And how many dwelling units did that include?
Mr. MYER. One thousand dwelling units.

Mr. BALLINGER. Therefore there are how many dwelling units in Old Greenbelt and New Greenbelt, divided between them? How many at Old Greenbelt?

Mr. MYER. Approximately 1,890.

Mr. BALLINGER. For the two?

Mr. MYER. Yes.

Mr. BALLINGER. How many at Old Greenbelt?

Mr. MYER. Eight hundred and ninety. Between 885 and 890. Mr. BALLINGER. You are acquainted with an organization called the Greenbelt Consumer Services, Inc.?

Mr. MYER. I am, sir..

Mr. BALLINGER. What is that organization?

Mr. MYER. That is the cooperative organization that operates the business facilities in the Old Greenbelt area, including a number of stores and other services provided to the community.

Mr. BALLINGER. Does a contract exist between Federal Public Housing and Greenbelt Consumers' Services, signed on November 1, 1946, to run for 10 years?

Mr. MYER. It does.

Mr. BALLINGER. Does that contract, in your opinion, give this organization a monopoly over the business of the town?

Mr. MYER. It does not excepting as to certain phases of the business for that period. Now, I do not know what you would call "monopoly." I will let you define that.

Mr. BALLINGER. Does it give it a monopoly over existing business of the town as of this date, and as long as they continue the operation of those facilities?

Mr. MYER. I would like to state the basic terms of the contract and let you determine what your answer should be on that basis.

Mr. BALLINGER. Yes.

Mr. MYER. The basic terms of the contract are that the cooperative has the right to conduct the operation of certain types of stores, including food stores, variety stores, filling station and service garage, and similar activities for a period of 10 years within the area, and they will have no other-we will not allow other business to come in in an area of half-mile radius of that.

Mr. BALLINGER. Of the center?

Mr. MYER. Of that center of the Old Greenbelt.