Mr. MORRISON. I have no quarrel with any former manager. Mr. Ricker and I served on the town council together, and we generally agreed, but we did not agree under the cooperative plan.

Sure we need larger stores, but they could not be built any sooner. No one, I think, denies that we need more space, but how in the name of

Chairman PLOESER. You say they could not have been built sooner? Mr. MORRISON. No, sir.

Chairman PLOESER. Why not?

Mr. MORRISON. Where would you have gotten the material?

Chairman PLOESER. I lived in this community all during the war, and I saw Shirlington built during the war, and I saw several other communities built during the war, and I just cannot imagine that the Federal Government would have been prejudiced against Greenbelt. Mr. MORRISON. Well, the Federal Government had no appropriation for funds to build any additional.

Chairman PLOESER. Well, this store building they are building now, this corporation is furnishing the funds for.

Mr. MORRISON. That is right.

Chairman PLOESER. Well, then you could have got the materials, do you not suppose?

Mr. MORRISON. I do not think we could have.

Chairman PLOESER. Well, how did the others get it?

Mr. MORRISON. I could not tell you.

know. Got it some way.

Probably stole it. I do not

Chairman PLOESER. They did get them, you will admit that.

Mr. MORRISON. Some of them did.

Chairman PLOESER. Not some. Many did.

Mr. MORRISON. A lot of them did not get them.

Chairman PLOESER. I believe that is true. Did you try to get them

at Greenbelt?

Mr. MORRISON. I never tried, personally.

Chairman PLOESER. Do you know anybody who did?

Mr. MORRISON. I think they did. I think they tried.
Chairman PLOESER. Do you know?

Mr. MORRISON. I could not tell you because I do not know.

Mr. BALLINGER. Mr. Chairman, we happened to look up the figures on this. In 1946, there was $800,000,000 of construction of stores, garages, and restaurants.

Chairman PLOESER. In the United States?

Mr. BALLINGER. In the United States, public and private financing. And all during the war, stores were being built if you had a need for them in your community.

Mr. PATMAN. I do not think they should be blamed for not getting material.

Chairman PLOESER. I am not blaming them. I am just saying I want the record to show they could get materials.

Mr. PATMAN. Some of them did.

Chairman PLOESER. Over $800,000,000, altogether.

Mr. PATMAN. Some of them in the black market.

Chairman PLOESER. You are not talking about the black market now, are you? What are you talking about, allocations?

Mr. BALLINGER. Allocations. Eight million dollars.

73446-48- -19

Mr. PATMAN. How does that compare with total construction? Mr. BALLINGER. I do not know the total construction, what it was. I got it on stores, garages, and restaurants.

Mr. PATMAN. I think we should take judicial notice of the fact that materials were hard to get.

Chairman PLOESER. Yes.

Mr. PATMAN. A lot of good people got nowhere and made diligent effort and could not get materials.

Chairman PLOESER. I think we should take notice of that, as well as the fact that in this very area various shopping centers were built during the war, parts thereof.

Mr. MORRISON. As to prices, I have purchased at outside stores. That is true. I have purchased at Sanitary, Giants, and other places, but invariably I would get skinned.

Chairman PLOESER. You look pretty healthy to me.

Mr. MORRISON. I am. But invariably I come home and recheck the stuff and it was short an ounce or two, and an apple would be turned down with the rotten side under, and I would come home with a rotten apple or orange.

I do not say that that happened every time, but invariably you get to the stores, if you buy $15 worth of stuff from outside, you get that. We do not do that in Greenbelt.

Chairman PLOESER. You mean everybody outside of Greenbelt stings you?

Mr. MORRISON. Not exactly.

Chairman PLOESER. Not exactly. What do you mean?
Mr. MORRISON. But invariably I get stung.

Chair PLOESER. What is "par" on this question?

Mr. MORRISON. Invariably I get stung in a chain store.

Chairman PLOESER. Now, you are going to limit it to chain stores! Mr. MORRISON. Yes, sir. That is what you trade at.

Mr. PATMAN. The United States District Court at Danville, Ill.. just recently decided what you have said. Not every chain, but that particular chain. The judge declared that the goods and commodities were billed to the manager at the retail price. You take lard. He would have a certain quantity of lard. He would sell it out in smaller quantities. You could not possibly sell that much in smaller quantities, but they always went over 2 percent above, and 3 percent above, and the amount of overage was alarming and disturbing.

If you will read the history of that case, you will find exactly what another concern did, one of those chain stores.

Chairman PLOESER. You did not go to Danville at any time?
Mr. MORRISON. No, sir, that; is out of my terrotory.

Chairman PLOESER. Go right ahead.

Mr. MORRISON. I have no complaint with the prices in our store, none whatever.

The fact of it is that a great number of things are cheaper than outside. There are some things that might be a little higher, but the prices are generally averaged up when they are found out what they

are.

One thing especially: I challenge anybody to buy any better grade of meat at the price you can buy it at Greenbelt. Go and try it and com

pare them, and present them on the table and compare them with the quality, and everything, on the price.

Chairman PLOESER. Of course, when you want the best grade of meat, then you go to St. Louis.

Mr. MORRISON. Well, I was down there a long time myself, but I did not have much to eat. I was down there in the Army.

Chairman PLOESER. You fellows have all had your plugs in for 2 days. I think St. Louis is entitled to one.

Mr. MORRISON. Well, I was down at Jefferson Barracks a long time myself. I rode that long streetcar line. What is it? Broadway? Chairman PLOESER. That is right.

Mr. MORRISON. Broadway. Something like that.

In fact, I think this hearing, to tell you what I think now, is all uncalled for. It is all a bunch of dope, to tell you what I think. Chairman PLOESER. A bunch of what?

Mr. MORRISON. You can call it whatever you want to. There is nothing to it. You have accomplished nothing out of the hearing. Chairman PLOESER. That is your opinion?

Mr. MORRISON. That is exactly my opinion, and that will be the opinion of the great majority of the people, remember that.

Mr. BALLINGER. Are you the councilman that voted against the resolution to admit private business?

Mr. MORRISON. I am.

Mr. BALLINGER. Are you the one who told the mayor the reason you voted against it was that you had an investment?

Mr. MORRISON. I did not. No, sir. Those were not the words.
Mr. BALLINGER. Are you in favor of private business?

Mr. MORRISON. I am in favor of private business. I have got an application there myself.

Mr. PATMAN. The private business is just owned by 1,800 people, instead of one or two.

Mr. MORRISON. That is right.

Chairman PLOESER. You mean you have an application to put a store in Greenbelt?

Mr. MORRISON. If it was ever available where I could, but I never pushed it. I mean, if the cooperative were to step out and there were a place anywhere, where I could get a private business, I would like to have it. Why wouldn't I?

Chairman PLOESER. Well, I do not blame you for it; I do not blame you for it at all.

Mr. MORRISON. Why, sure.

Chairman PLOESER. I do not blame you for it. I think you should. The only thing I am worried about is, you are playing with trouble. Maybe you should not have said that, because from the testimony we have had here that is a crime in the eyes of some of your folks over

there.

Mr. MORRISON. I am standing on it.

Chairman PLOESER. And you have got to run for election.
Mr. MORRISON. I will take the chance.
Chairman PLOESER. You will?

Mr. MORRISON. Yes.

Chairman PLOESER. It is your hide.

Mr. PATMAN. Have you ever been defeated?

Mr. MORRISON. No.

Mr. PATMAN. At Greenbelt?

Mr. MORRISON. No.

Mr. PATMAN. I was just wondering if anybody had been defeated. It occurred to me no one had been defeated.

Chairman PLOESER. Mr. Morrison said that he had been elected five times, and defeated once.

Mr. PATMAN. No

Mr. MORRISON. I ran five times, and have been elected five times, but one time I did not run because of the Hatch Act forcing me out. Mr. PATMAN. You were hatched?

Chairman PLOESER. I am sorry.

Mr. MORRISON. I have already told you what I thought about that. Chairman PLOESER. That is right.

Mr. MORRISON. Yes. We have disagreements in our town. We have them in the town council. We have them in the citizens' association. We have them in the G. C. S. And we have them in every other organization, but finally we get to a head whereby we all come out for the best interests of the town and our citizens. Finally there will be an agreement reached.

Chairman PLOESER. Do you think the facilities out there are adequate to serve the people?

Mr. MORRISON. At the present time, and for some time, they have not been, but you must remember that that town was built for 3,000 people, and we have near 8,000.

Now, you can see the position the facilities are in, they are not adequate, but they will be made adequate in due time. I know they are not adequate. I do not deny it. But nobody, no individual has complained.

Chairman PLOESER. Go right ahead.

Mr. MORRISON. For my part, I am a great believer in what hap pened yesterday is ancient history. We are looking to the future. All this entanglement and disagreement and everything is past in my mind. Let us look at the future and build up for what we can make for the best for the town for tomorrow.

Chairman PLOESER. You do not believe any attention should be paid to what you did yesterday?

Mr. MORRISON. You have got to forget it because that is gone. Chairman PLOESER. You forget all of your personal habits?

Mr. MORRISON. Sometimes some little things do not amount to anything.

Chairman PLOESER. Go right ahead.

Mr. MORRISON. The Government has done a good job at Greenbelt. The co-op is doing a good job. Let us continue the good work. Why tear down all we have done in the past 10 years in just 2 or 3 days of meeting as we have here?

In my judgment, the vest majority of our people are behind the co-op. That is exactly what I think.

Mr. BALLINGER. Mr. Morrison, do you think the cooperative can sell as cheaply as private business, or more cheaply?

Mr. MORRISON. Well, I do not know. I am not in on all that detail. Mr. BALLINGER. You think you can sell as cheaply?

Mr. MORRISON. I think they can.

Mr. BALLINGER. Then why do they need the monopoly?

Mr. MORRISON. I cannot see where we have got a monopoly. Mr. MADDREN. Why are you not willing to permit other business to come into the business center there?

Mr. MORRISON. Why do they not permit other business interests in? You can go around here in places, where private interests have built, and they have a circle in here where just one business of a kind is installed.

Chairman PLOESER. Does the Government own those places?

Mr. MORRISON. I am telling you I do not know, but they do have that. You can go into any center, built up by private interest, and they have a center around there with stores and they only have one store.

Chairman PLOESER. And they have one company that owns all and operates all the stores?

Mr. MORRISON. No, no.

Chairman PLOESER. You have in Greenbelt one company that operates all the stores?

Mr. MORRISON. We do at the present time.

Chairman PLOESER. That is all.

Are there any questions?

Mr. PATMAN. What prompts these people like the mayor and those fellows who used to be the business manager out there-what is his name? Ricker?

Mr. MORRISON. Mr. Ricker.

Mr. PATMAN. What prompts people like that, who testified last night-did you hear his testimony?

Mr. MORRISON. No.

Mr. PATMAN. Pulling out a lot of what you might call "calamity" about your project.

Mr. MORRISON. What was that?

Mr. PATMAN. This treasurer, Hornblow, or something.

Chairman PLOESER. No demonstrations, now. We have all been good for 2 days.

Mr. PATMAN. Why did these people come up here? They seem to be honest working people, and courageous like.

Mr. MORRISON. I was not here last night. I do not know.

Mr. PATMAN. You were not here?

Mr. MORRISON. All I know is what I have seen in the Times-Herald. Mr. PATMAN. That is all.

Chairman PLOESER. Did all of you gentlemen hear that over there? Next witness.

Mr. ARENT. Mrs. Caroline Miller.

Chairman PLOESER. Mrs. Miller, will you state your full name? Mrs. MILLER. Caroline Russell Miller.

Chairman PLOESER. Raise your right hand.

Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mrs. MILLER. I do.

Chairman PLOESER. You may proceed.