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Dr. BOEHM. Well, it is very substantial. It could be plus or minus, but it is very substantially correct.

Senator CLARK. Could you give us just a very brief summary of the need for increasing teachers' salaries in Pennsylvania, both at the college level and at the primary and secondary school level, with a little differentiation, if you will, between the various categories of institutions of higher learning we have, by which I mean, as I understand it, the need is greater in the State colleges than it is in some of the small liberal arts colleges. The salary is greater in the private liberal arts colleges than it is at Penn State and the University of Pennsylvania. Do you see what I want?

Dr. BOEHM. Yes,

We have a small group of liberal arts colleges which are highly endowed, and which have resources and other features which would attract, without any doubt, adequate facilities to provide for their education substantially for a good many years.

Senator CLARK. Their three good examples would be Swarthmore, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr.

Dr. BOEHM. There would be one of the highest colleges in terms of being able to support higher education than would the two of our State universities.

Senator CLARK. I think people here do not understand how we Pennsylvanians use those terms; in a very limited sense we do not have any State universities, do we?

Dr. BOEHM. We do not have any State universities.

Senator CLARK. We have one land-grant university, State.

Dr. BOEHM. That is right.

Senator CLARK. Then the State-deeded universities, such as University of Pennsylvania and Pitt.

Dr. BOEHM. Then we have two State universities whose salaries are substantially below the other two.

Our State college salaries and the medium liberal arts salaries are about the same. These are less than 75 percent affected.

Then we have a large number

Senator CLARK. What do you mean by that?

Dr. BOEHM. Today it should be 25 percent higher than they are now. We lose from these groups a great many people to other States constantly. The march is much more pronounced in higher education than it is in secondary or elementary education.

Senator CLARK. Isn't there also a very real problem in recruiting adequate young men and women for teaching in institutions of higher learning because of the relatively low salary scale compared with other available professions?

Dr. BOEHM. Well, there is no doubt about that, Senator Clark. We have a few devoted people returning to higher education merely because they like to teach. But the loss in the fields of math and science is such that we are unable to staff our colleges and, may I say this, we are instituting a mandatory course in economics, and it is difficult to find an institution in Pennsylvania that is staffed with one professor devoted to the study of economics.

I checked with 30 colleges, and they have no such personnel in their college, and how many more I do not know out of 120, but I know it is very difficult; and from national studies the picture is a problem across the Nation.

Now, this is only one specific area of higher education. We permit the Pennsylvania colleges to have employment directly out of industry without any professional experience as members on the staff of our colleges. I believe in this. But it is necessary to take, in many instances if we are going to do modern foreign languages or new fields such as world cultures-it is necessary to bring the young man or woman on the staff and really tell them to go ahead and do the best they can.

Senator CLARK. So a serious study of salaries in institutions of higher learning might well be an appropriate function for this subcommittee, would you not think?

Dr. BOEHM. This would be excellent data, I think, for a national study; I do, Senator Clark.

Senator CLARK. Thank you, sir.

Senator MORSE. Dr. Boehm, the House has passed H.R. 7125. Have you made any study of the House bill?

Dr. BOEHM. No; I have not.

Senator MORSE. You have not compared it with the Senate bill? Dr. BOEHM. No; I have not, Senator.

Senator MORSE. This is a question I wanted to ask you. One of the differences of opinion which seems to have developed is that the House bill seems to be much more restrictive with respect to the use of any funds for physical education.

The Senate bill, in essence, says that funds cannot be used for any facility where the primary purpose is to use it for admissionpaying events. Examples of this would be football stadiums or a fieldhouse which is devoted primarily to basketball tournaments and games.

Under the Senate bill, as was brought out yesterday in our hearing, if a fieldhouse is erected in which physical education classes and the whole academic work of the physical education department is conducted, which also contained a basketball court used for regular intercollegiate basketball games to which admissions were charged, then there would be no prohibition against the financing of a building or academic facility. Another example is an academic building for all of the classes of speech and dramatics which also contains an auditorium in it with a stage, which is used from time to time to put on college plays for which admissions were charged.

Do you have any views which you would like to give this committee upon this difference between the Senate bill and the House bill on this matter of physical education? It is quite controversial within this committee.

Some of us point out that the President has strongly advocated a physical fitness program. So long as it is carried on within the legitimate bounds of the physical education program, I find myself very much in favor of it.

I quite agree that we have to be on guard against the athletic crowd taking over. Those of us who have been in academic work know of the great influence of the athletic alumni. They sometimes hold the view that a football victory is more important than a scientific discovery in nuclear physics or biochemistry.

At the same time, I do not want to do anything which would damage the legitimate and desirable objectives of a sound physical fitness program in the schools of America.

I have laid out the problem to you. I would like to know if you have any advice to give the committee.

Dr. BOEHM. I do, Senator Morse.

Governor Lawrence's committee, of course, in connection with the community colleges, does not recommend any State support for these kinds of facilities.

However, first, in Pennsylvania all of the colleges and universities which have interested the alumni in the facilities already have a substantial fieldhouse or athletic facility because this is a part of our tradition in Pennsylvania.

I personally do not believe that it should be restricted because I believe the swimming pool is of sufficient, is important-either the size of the pool or the number of pools is very important—in developing physical activity among all our college graduates.

I know that in a number of schools which I checked in this connection, the only swimming pool they have is restricted for intercollegiate athletics and they do not have facilities for all students.

I believe our 14 colleges will very shortly say that every teacher in Pennsylvania who does not hold a doctor's certificate will have to learn to swim, for example. This is a condition in many universities in the Middle West and Far West which they impose upon their students. In a similar fashion, if we are going to emphasize, even in part, calisthenics and gymnastics, which are largely neglected in physical education, we will need more physical education facilities.

I believe that in 99 percent of the cases the college president and authorities will be able to weigh heavily the use of Federal funds for either academic or physical education facilities.

Senator MORSE. Thank you very much.

I want to say if, between now and the time this bill comes up for discussion in the Senate, you have the time to look at H.R. 7125, which is the House higher education bill, to compare it with the Senate bill, and if you would like to give us the benefit of your opinion and suggestions, we would be delighted to have them to make them a part of the record. I mean no idle compliment when I say to you, Dr. Boehm, that your views carry great weight with this committee, and I therefore would like to have from you, if time permits, an evaluation of H.R. 7125 and a comparison of it with the Senate bill. Thank you very much.

Dr. BOEHM. I will be glad to do it, Senator Morse.

Senator MORSE. I want to make it very clear that when I speak of the House bill I mean the bill as reported and not the bill as introduced, and I am going to ask Mr. Lee to see to it that you get a copy of the bill as reported and a copy of the committee report.

Dr. BOEHM. Thank you.

Senator MORSE. I am now privileged and personally very pleased to have the opportunity of calling on President Case of Colgate to come forward to testify.

I understand that Dr. Wilson and Mr. Dobbins are associated with him on behalf of the American Council on Education, and I would be very glad to have them come forward to the table to participate in the hearing.

The record should show that this committee has been helped time and time again by the contributions of President Case.

I am not an alumnus of Colgate, but I have been up to Colgate on several occasions during the administration of President Case. I only want to say for the record that I think I speak on behalf of the alumni of Colgate when I say they have suffered a great loss in the resignation of President Case to go to a field of even greater opportunity. On behalf of higher education I congratulate President Case for his acceptance of even more responsibility in service to education.

We are delighted to have you, Mr. President, and you may proceed in your own way.

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Chairman, may I have a word before President Case, who is a personal friend of mine, actually starts, to express my pleasure as a Senator from New York to this committee and subcommittee that he is with us today.

I would say that I am practically an alumnus of Colgate University for two reasons: One, I have spoken there so often; and, two, I had the privilege of having the president personally prepare dinner for me not so very many weeks ago. He does that only for the most distinguished alumni of the university.

But President Case is a most distinguished American, and we are all so very proud of him in New York.

I would like to express my concurrence with the Chair at the pleasure we all have, much as we know he will be missed at Colgate, to see him move on to even broader fields where his influence can be felt in even wider circles.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator MORSE. May I also add that the committee is very happy to have the president of American Council on Education, Dr. Logan Wilson, and also Mr. Charles Dobbins of the American Council on Education with Dr. Case this morning.

I want you gentlemen to feel perfectly free when President Case finishes, to make any statement you care to or to participate in any colloquy which may develop between the committee and the witness. President Case, you may proceed in your own way.

STATEMENT OF EVERETT CASE, PRESIDENT, COLGATE UNIVERSITY; ACCOMPANIED BY LOGAN WILSON, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION; AND CHARLES G. DOBBINS, STAFF ASSOCIATE, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION, AND SECRETARY, COMMITTEE ON RELATIONSHIPS OF HIGHER EDUCATION TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

Dr. CASE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like, first, to acknowledge the very generous and handsome remarks which you and Senator Javits have made in introducing me. You both have been extremely welcome guests at Colgate. We hope you will come again. I may say, Mr. Chairman, that I prepared the dinner because Senator Javits was making a flying trip between rollcalls, and my wife was chairman, and was on the platform, so I thought if she could undertake that role, I had to undertake the culinary role, and if you come again under similar circumstances and my wife is not available to prepare dinner, I promise to do it for you.

Senator MORSE. I shall look forward to that. As I remember, the last time I came to Colgate you welcomed me with a blizzard, but the reception in the auditorium was very warm.

Dr. CASE. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Everett Case, and I am president of Colgate University. I am appearing today as chairman of the Committee on Relationships of Higher Education to the Federal Government of the American Council on Education. The council includes in its membership 145 educational organizations and 1,075 educational institutions, among them many of the junior colleges and nearly all of the accredited colleges and universities in the United States. I have also been authorized to speak today for the Association for Higher Education of the National Education Association, with the understanding that a supplementary written statement covering the official position of that organization on specific issues will be filed with this subcommittee. Copies of that are ready for submission, I understand, and will be so submitted.

(The statement of the Association for Higher Education of the National Education Association will be found on p. 290.)

Dr. CASE. Mr. Chairman, President Calvert N. Ellis of Juniata College of Huntingdon, Pa., is a representative of the Association of American Colleges. He is unable to be present and has asked that I offer his statement, with the request that it be made a part of the record, and with your permission I would like to submit copies of it. Senator MORSE. The statement will be received and made a part of the record. Please express to him our appreciation for his having presented this statement.

Dr. CASE. Thank you, sir.

(The statement of the Association of American Colleges will be found on p. 291.)

Dr. CASE. Mr. Chairman, I should like, first of all, to express deep appreciation for the action of this subcommittee in proceeding with hearings on the program of assistance in higher education proposed in S. 1241 and related bills.

If I may interpolate, I would say, God forbid that developments in Soviet Russia should ever be determining factors when it comes to this country's meeting its obligations to its young men and women.

It is disturbing, however, to find that in the minds of some Members of the Congress recent critical developments seem to have pushed aside what it was earlier agreed was the problem of great urgency, and I respect fully submit that recent developments in Berlin and other developments affecting our relations with the Soviet Union have done nothing to lessen the urgency of action in this field.

This program, we suggest, should not be thought of as one designed to help colleges and universities as such, but rather as one to help our young men and women prepare for the responsibilities of increasing complexity which will be theirs-and the Nation's.

If I might be permitted one further interpolation of a purely personal nature, as I have reviewed this situation it has seemed to me that we have not raised our sights sufficiently high in terms of what we should be asking of the Federal Government with respect to aid in provision of adequate facilities.

To resume, members of this subcommittee have been hearing for several years, and have heard from earlier witnesses at this hearing,

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