must be given if we are to do this job. It is the categories against the general area.

Do you want to talk a moment about it?

Lieutenant Governor HARTIGAN. Again, referring to your suggestion on priority, you are absolutely right.

If its a general program the senior citizen is at the bottom of the priority pile.

Senator Randolph, it has to be specialized. The Division of Vocational Rehabilitation is a great example of what you are talking about. One percent of their client population is over 65, 4 percent over 55.

The whole idea behind the Illinois Department on Aging, Senator, was to create an advocate for the needs of the elderly, and a means of meeting the needs of society by taking advantage of the elderly. It is run by senior citizens for senior citizens, and as an example of what we can do in our society, if we have the common sense to take the blinders off and let the elderly meet their own needs throughout the country with their own talents. You are the person to put the programs together.

Senator RANDOLPH. I think some people might say we need him in Washington, rather than Illinois.

Thank you very much.

Lieutenant Governor HARTIGAN. Thank you.

[The prepared statement of Lt. Gov. Neil F. Hartigan follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF NEIL F. HARTIGAN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, STATE OF ILLINOIS

I am grateful for this opportunity to appear before this distinguished group which has provided national leadership on behalf of older Americans.

All of us in government who deal with the problems of the aging are constantly running smack into the reality that the needs of seniors far outdistance our ability to meet them. Nowhere is this truer than in the area of employment opportunities.

By some strange logic, the desire to work is supposed to fade away at age 65-if not sooner. Of course, it doesn't. As many as 80 percent of the senior population would work, given the chance. As far as the elderly are concerned, the chance to work may not be so much a matter of economic survival as it is a way to preserve personal independence and pride, and to ward off the isolation and loneliness that shadow their old age.

In both national and State government, employment programs for older workers have never enjoyed a particularly high priority. In fact, many of them are the kind of programs that are pursued by a cloud of doubt, never entirely sure of their existence from one year to the next. Planning under those conditions becomes almost impossible, and many workers who are brought into such programs are as quickly dropped from them. Enthusiasm is replaced by disappointment.

PROGRAM ISN'T WORKING IN ILLINOIS

In Illinois an older workers program is run through the 88 local offices of the State employment service. This activity is supported entirely by Federal funds, and includes counseling, testing, job development and placement. Frankly, this program isn't working. Approximately 31,000 persons aged 55 and older seek work through this channel every year, and only 3,500-slightly more than 10 percent are actually placed in jobs. In theory, each of the 88 employment offices has an older worker specialist, but the same person may also be the younger worker specialist and the minority worker specialist.

A similar situation prevails in Illinois' Division of Vocational Rehabilitation, whose budget is about 85 percent Federal funds. Only 4 percent of the division's caseload is over 55, and less than 1 percent is over 65. When quoting this figure we are regularly referred to Federal law which relates eligibility for vocational

rehabilitation to "reasonably long work futures”. Much of the work is directed at target groups such as disabled public aid recipients and disabled public offenders, but the particular needs of the older disabled worker have not been similarly targeted.

A recession is not a good time to be old. It is a time of unexpected early retirement for which there is little or no preparation. Those who are already retired are assumed to be out of the labor force for good. But if we realize that most of these people do not want someone else's job as much as they want a chance to be productive, we can harness a tremendous load of talent and energy to the making of a better world.

I am speaking now of community service employment and volunteer opportunities for older citizens, such as those funded through title IX of the Older Americans Act, Operation Maintenance, and the Federal ACTION program. These programs are very popular in Illinois. The Retired Senior Volunteer Program (RSVP) is now active in 19 cities and involves 3,500 volunteers. There are 9 foster grandparents programs in operation employing 618 older persons. The senior aides can be found in several locations throughout the State. One of the area agencies on aging, covering nine counties in southeastern Illinois, has entered into a contract to hire 50 senior aides to staff social services and nutrition projects.

This concept-of seniors employed to serve other seniors-is one with unlimited possibilities, and it deserves further attention. My office operates the senior action centers, with the help of a grant from HEW. It is a senior ombudsman service, the first of its kind in the Nation, with a statewide toll-free telephone line. The staff, which handles specific problems and complaints, is made up almost entirely of RSVP volunteers and senior aides supervised by a handful of professionals. The success of this effort can be traced directly to the instant empathy the senior advocates have for fellow seniors in trouble. You can't put a price tag on it.

OLDER WORKERS NEED TO BE RECRUITED

Older workers can be recruited for the task of finding seniors who are eligible for a variety of local, State and Federal programs; of explaining these programs and services to those eligible; and of assisting them in making application and cutting through the red tape. There are 330 park districts and 549 tax-supported libraries in Illinois. Think of the outreach that could be achieved by the simple step of establishing a senior desk at each location.

For this to happen to any degree, federally-funded public service employment programs for seniors must be freed from the uncertainty that now plagues them. They must be given enough breathing room to broaden their base and reach their potential. Illinois' Green Thumb program, specifically geared to older rural workers, has been cut from 236 job slots to 140 in the current year. Title I of CETA reached fewer than 700 seniors in the fiscal year just past: title II provided jobs to only 40 persons over the age of 55-and there is no guarantee within CETA that older workers will get their fair share of the dollars committed to creating jobs.

I'm sure that every member of this committee would agree that providing 12.000 to 15.000 jobs on a national basis through Operation Mainstream and title IX of the Older Americans Act is not enough. You have already recognized the need by approving greatly increased levels of funding in the extension of the Older Americans Act through FY 79. I salute that active show of concern and am greatly encouraged by it, and I hope that older worker programs are permanently incorporated in the Nation's plan for the aging. These programs, whether providing paid work on volunteer positions, have proved successful in their limited application, and they deserve your continued and expanded support, There is great potential for cooperation between the State and Federal governments in the provision of services to the aging. To be honest, we at the State level have in many respects fallen short of your performance in terms of reaching people who need help. The Social Security Administration is now providing benefits to more than 900.000 retired and disabled workers in Illinois. We have a tax relief program for elderly and disabled residents which has been reaching fewer than one-third of those eligible, and millions of dollars in benefits are lost every year. Recently, by tying this program to a new program of sales tax relief, we have experienced a dramatic increase in the participation rate.

The participation rate in that program, and in several others, would be enhanced even further if State and National officials could agree on a simple procedure: inserting a basic checklist of five or six senior services in the monthly P social security checks. The checklist would be a slip of paper naming the programs of which every senior and disabled person in Illinois should be awaretax relief, income supplements, nutrition programs, recreational discounts, and others. By writing to the Illinois Department on Aging, the social security recipient would then be able to find out about other services available. Despite years of effort, there are still thousands of persons who do not know that these programs and Supplemental Security Income is one of them-exist.

Part of the problem can be addressed by employing seniors to relate person-toperson with other seniors, and another part can be attacked by reaching people in their homes through the social security envelope. By working toward those two goals we can eliminate the artificial barriers that separate the older citizens of this country from the rest of the active world.

Senator RANDOLPH. Our next witness is from an older workers panel made up of Arthur J. Sorensen, Mamie Dunn, and Mrs. Daniel Navarro, all of Chicago, Ill.

I will ask-instead of questions to the three of you as individuals, I will ask one question and ask for a rather quick response from all of you to that question.

Before I do that, please proceed with your statements.

Mr. Sorensen, please proceed first.

PANEL ON OLDER WORKERS

STATEMENT OF ARTHUR J. SORENSEN, CHICAGO, ILL.

Mr. SORENSEN. Thank you, Senator.

I have been unemployed since April Fool's Day, and have over 20 years' experience in my field, which is rehabilitation. After 15 years in administrative and supervisory situations, my current status is very peculiar. Because of having passed the age of 45, I find myself in the category that I used to reject myself in interviewing people for jobs.

I want to clarify a few things about what you run into when facing an interviewer who sees that you are 10 or 20 years older than he is. The first thing is that you have ascended to the top of the pay scale. It is much easier hiring somebody at the lower end of the scale, but he feels he has to offer you the higher end of the scale, so that puts you at a disadvantage.

Also, you have had more experience than he has had, which makes him very, very leery. You get some pretty bad vibes about having to be interviewed by somebody who is 20 years younger than you are.

Also, an excuse is made that I might not adjust to a situation that may be a new operation or in which everybody is under the age of 30. All of these things enter very subtly and not directly at all, in terms of whether or not they will take you.

In my field, there are many new jobs, many new operations. In fact, it is at the new end of the rehabilitation field that most of the openings occur, which means that those who are talking to me have oftentimes been in their jobs for only a couple of years.

They have changed all the job titles to new ones, even though the jobs themselves may not have changed.

There are many new jobs that have come into existence. Employers do not know the nature of the jobs themselves, and they do not realize very often they need somebody with experience in the total field.

They have many trouble-shooting situations. They have many administrative problems. This is the type of thing I am acquainted with, and yet they will tend to reject me simply because they feel that I do not have the latest degree, or I do not have the latest job title. This creates a disadvantage for me. Then I start thinking in terms of retraining.

RETRAINING IN AN OVERCROWDED FIELD

The question is, In what way do you retrain in a field that is now overcrowded? I recall 5 or 10 years ago I was searching for people who could not be found at all in terms of specific education or experience.

Now, the universities are pouring them out like lemmings, and you can see them hunting around frantically for jobs.

The person who does not have the latest degree is at a disadvantage. However, you are uncertain whether you should get new degree or a new title. New training might still leave you at the end of the line. You will still be over the age of 40, and it just so happens that most of the people you are talking to are quite a bit younger than that, and cannot conceive of hiring anybody beyond the age of 40.

These are all situations which I have summarized very rapidly.

I wanted to mention my pension situation, since that will be an item being discussed by this subcommittee.

Because I worked mostly for local government organizations, each of whom had its own pension plan, I have had a very peculiar history in this regard.

In 1956, I left the city of Chicago's employ, and they had to pay me back what I had in the pension plan.

In 1960, I left Cook County, and because of their independent pension plan, they had to pay it all back to me.

In 1974, the sanitarium closed up. I was on the city of Chicago's pension plan, and because it would be about 9 years before the minimum retirement age, they had to simply give all that back to me, too. In the past 25 years, I have probably only about 3 years of social security coverage.

In terms of unemployment compensation, at one time because I worked for local governments, there would be no way to get it. However, that has been changed. Under a special SUA program I am getting unemployment compensation.

I think that pretty much summarizes what my situation is, and I pass on to the next person.

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you very much, Mr. Sorenson.
Mrs. Mamie Dunn.

STATEMENT OF MAMIE DUNN, CHICAGO, ILL.

Mrs. DUNN. My name is Mamie Dunn. I worked in a nursing home for 8 years. The home closed because it was changed to a shelteredcare facility. The administrator was losing money. My husband is a retired Pullman porter from the railroad. Because of my layoff, my husband and I had to sit down and budget his pension check and my unemployment compensation check the best way we could to meet our obligations.

I filled out applications at different institutions with no response for 7 months. I was interviewed for jobs, but my age was the factor for not being hired. I was turned down one place because I did not own a car. Another time, I was refused because the retirement age of the organization was 55 years-I am near that age.

If I had not been hired by the Comprehensive Employment Training Act program, I would still be looking for a job. I have always enjoyed working with the aged.

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you very much, Mamie.
Now, we will hear from Mrs. Daniel Navarro.

STATEMENT OF MRS. DANIEL NAVARRO, CHICAGO, ILL.

Mrs. NAVARRO. I worked 20 years for the Supreme Products in Chicago, which was owned by Emerson Electric.

The jobs I had were low pay. As a woman, I could not qualify for the higher paying jobs held by the men. These were heavy labor jobs that paid $2 or more per hour than I earned.

My starting pay was $1.05 per hour. Through the years I received salary increases, and my salary peaked at $3.68 per hour, and then there was a decline in work. I was demoted. And of course I was paid a lower wage of $3.25 per hour.

Supreme Products started to lay off about 2 years before management announced that the factory would close in 6 months. The announcement was made in January 1973.

Everyone was very upset because we were not getting severance pay. After much discussion with our union, UAW, Supreme Products agreed to give the workers a lump-sum settlement based on age and seniority.

A coworker who was 61 years old with 27 years seniority received $12,000. I received only $2,680 for 20 years of work there. In 1974, the pension law was passed, but it was too late to help the Supreme Products employees.

At age 56 with a 13-year-old son and a husband on pension, my future was very dark. It felt like the end of my world after losing my job, and especially my long work for a pension. My old age security, because my husband had retired at the age of 57 in 1969 with 41 years service at United States Steel due to a severe case of arthritis, we did not qualify for social security.

FEW JOB OPENINGS FOR SPANISH-SPEAKING WOMEN

I looked for work for almost a year while collecting compensation. There are few jobs open to Spanish-speaking women, especially if you are over 45.

Other limitations are: lack of formal education.

I graduated from grammar school during the depression, and immediately went to work. Being the oldest, I had to help put food on the table. Physical inability to do the laboring jobs available to younger workers, both male or female.

We are considered to be too old to learn a new trade or skill. This, of course, has yet to be proved. Many of the jobs available to the Spanish-speaking people are low-paying jobs, due to the language and age barrier, the inability to understand instructions can be dangerous.

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