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stance, the report on the water and pesticides programs, the health facilities educator and, as it applies to rural areas, the information referral services and the older worker specialty employment.

Now I have already made reference to that latter one, and it is going well. I am also pleased to say that the legislature of the State of Iowa for the second year put its second $100,000 into this program to employ older Iowans.

If the first year was successful, and it was, the second year is steamrolling right on behind it. There are people being employed now who otherwise were sitting on their hands. They are very capable people and they have literally made placements up in the thousands, and we look for that to continue. That program seems to have a terrific impetus.

INFORMATION AND REFERRAL SERVICE

The information referral program is kind of new. It was decentralized from the State, and the information and referral-meaning that when people have a question and they want to ask about that, they want to know something that might be particularly bothering them— where do you call? Where do you get the answer?

Well, we had one line prior to this and it went into the State. It was a 24-hour WATS line and it attempted to treat this, but a much better way would be to decentralize it to the 13 areas that we have in the State.

Now some of those are functioning already and, in fact to this date, they are receiving in those four areas that are doing it—four combined areas-to the tune of about 2,000 calls per month, and that would be expected to rise as the others get their capability. They are going to take your questions and your concerns, and they are going to try to give you an answer on them.

Now the other things I will cover more completely in the report to you, Senator, but I might just say this in closing, and then the hearings can really commence. What I found when I came to the State was that we had a need to, I think, reduce some of the bureaucracy and some of the excess layering that I saw there. I pledge to you that is what we are going to do, and I think there is a very good reason for that.

Every time we build another layer of somebody doing something, it costs money. Now the Congress or our State appropriates this money and I think, if I am reading it correctly, they want the majority of each and every dollar to go out to the place that it was really for-that is, for our elderly people in Iowa.

Every time we build something in, some artificial, bureaucratic, or administrative type of a control-it takes so many pennies away from that dollar, meaning that fewer pennies then get out to where they ought to go. That is what we are going to be doing.

We have already found that we can literally cut one heck of a lot of these things out and not feel any loss of momentum because of the way we are going to do it. This means that we could almost within a very short time, start swinging more money out which was allocated to our areas, as we have already done. So I hope this will meet with your satisfaction. Time will tell. I know that we are going to accelerate the nutrition sites throughout the States. That is coming up very fast and we are going to be coming up with about 122 percent

of what we did before, and that is a real number-122 percent of what we did before. That means we are going to be expanding both on nutrition, nutrition sites and, more importantly, aiming at the nutrition site with respect to where the people need the service.

SITES NOT ALWAYS CONVENIENT

Sometimes bureaucrats look at a map and they say, "This would be a peachy place for that nutrition site," but then they find that the people that it would serve maybe are scattered someplace else. It does not make too much sense, does it? It means you have to go into expensive transportation systems that you might not need otherwise. But if transportation is needed, we are going to try to get it there, and that is another thing that I believe is going to be very valuable. I am glad to hear a reference to that this morning, too.

Ladies and gentlemen, I certainly appreciate the opportunity to talk with you for a few minutes this morning and I hope that these hearings are going to give all of us a much better insight as to what the real need is.

Thank you very much, Senator.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, George.

I think your point about mandatory retirement is particularly well taken. It seems to me, if you travel around this State and other parts of the country, that mandatory retirement in many ways is the most discriminatory practice that we have in this country. The fact that you have reached the age of 60 or 65 certainly ought not disqualify you from pursuing the occupation or profession that you have and that you prefer.

When you think of the number of talented people that have achieved many of their greatest achievements after age 65, you think of artistsPicasso, who died just a year or so ago-many of the great musicianspeople who had their greatest years in their sixties, their seventies, and, in some cases, in their eighties.

I think it is not only true in the arts, but out of the arts. I think if there is one thing that we need to do in terms of reducing discrimination in this country, it is to eliminate mandatory retirements. I agree with you.

We are very pleased that you came, George, to get us started. In other hearings, we are going to be pursuing some of the things that you talked about, particularly employment programs-the kinds of things that you referred to in your testimony.

Thank you very much.

Now we are going to ask the panel here in the front row to come right on up to the desk and we will proceed with your testimony.

We are going to hear from Mr. Goeldner, Mrs. Hazel Stroeber, Mr. Willis Sprunger, and Mrs. Lucille Anderson.

As I understand it, Mr. Goeldner has a prepared statement, and others are just going to say what is on their mind or we will have questions and answers, however we decide to proceed.

Mr. Goeldner is chairman of the Central Iowa Area Agency on Aging, over at Earlham. I have had the pleasure of meeting him on many occasions before. He is formerly the publisher and editor of the newspaper in Earlham.

Mr. Goeldner, you may proceed in any way you like.

STATEMENT OF L. R. GOELDNER, CHAIRMAN, CENTRAL IOWA AREA AGENCY ON AGING, EARLHAM, IOWA

Mr. GOELDNER. Thank you, Senator Clark and friends.

It was suggested that I give a brief review of changes in rural Iowa during the past number of years. I think most of us here this morning can remember back in the early part of the century. Back in the early days the size of farms were smaller. What is considered an adequate size now-80 acres-would support a family, and 160 acres was considered a rather large operation. All the members of the family worked back in those days. We didn't hear of nursing homes. As a last resort, an older person would have to go to the county poor farm, which was considered just a pretty bad situation.

Most of the older people-grandparents or a maiden aunt-would live in with the family and contribute help with the farm chores and things for their remaining days.

Later on, when World War I came along, greater production was required to take care of our allies and our needs here in the United States. A sort of prosperity developed through the war needs. After the war, this continued for a short time and then we didn't need as many supplies as were required earlier, and the demand fell off.

In 1929, most all of us remember the crash when troubled times began, and we had the depression. Many lost their farms, their homes, and their life savings. People who would consider themselves fairly well to do found themselves destitute.

IMPACT OF THE DEPRESSION

At that time, relief programs were set up. One of them at that time to help those who didn't have resources was called old age pension or old age assistance. This was not a very satisfactory situation for the persons who had to receive it because they had been more or less independent. Now they had to sign over any assets they might have to the State or, if they stepped out of line, they could stand the chance of losing this pension.

Following this, we began to get our social security program established, and even with its many faults it seems to be the best program that has been improvised so far. It has restored a certain amount of dignity to the older persons who need assistance in their older days.

When World War II came along the greater strife became evident in agriculture. The farms needed to be larger, our equipment began to develop, and the horsepower began to disappear. Eventually, everything was mechanical.

The farmer in the depression time was assisted by new programs. which allowed him to store his grain and to receive a loan so he could maybe take advantage of a higher market. There was land taken out of production which he received revenue for so there would not be a surplus on the market.

It is not uncommon today to have farms 800 or 1,000 acres. One farmer may operate 1.000 acres of land. He has probably an investment of maybe $50,000 to $100,000 in his equipment.

Back in the earlier days, a younger man could start out working and then rent a farm and, after a period of time, own it. In today's time it would take a large amount of money to buy the land, to buy the equipment, and stock his farm.

The older people today, when they get beyond the point where they can live in their own homes, go to a nursing home where they are taken care of for the remainder of their days.

I think that takes care of it.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much.

Mrs. Stroeber, did you want to make any statement or were we just going to have questions and answers?

Mrs. STROEBER. Statement.

Senator CLARK. Very good.

STATEMENT OF HAZEL STROEBER, MACKSBURG, IOWA

Mrs. STROEBER. I am one of the aging. I am nearly 80 and I have lived alone on my farm since 1972 when my husband died. I am in fairly good health, only my eyes are so poor I cannot drive my car. I think, too, most of the people, as they become older one of the biggest problems is transportation; although any time I had a real need to travel, there was always some of my neighbors or some_relatives who would take me, but at times I felt very much like I was imposing on them and that maybe sometimes I was becoming a

nuisance.

So I was really overjoyed when I read in the paper that there was a new minibus coming to Winterset and which would come out to Macksburg and take us in here to Winterset once a week on Monday mornings.

So right away I made an appointment with my dentist. The only time I could have was 11:30 and that is the time they eat lunch here so I didn't get to eat lunch with the group that day. The dental offices are at the edge of town, so after the driver brought me, he turned around and took me back out to the dental office; then at 12 o'clock he was there waiting to bring me back uptown.

Of course I could not eat here so I ate a little lunch at one of the restaurants, did shopping, and went to the grocery and gathered up a whole lot of groceries. The bus driver told me, "You must eat an awfully lot from the the amount of groceries you buy." I do buy quite a bit and put in the freezer because I am out 16 miles from town. Someone always will get me some, but then sometimes I need to have things there in that freezer, so I buy quite a bit whenever I get my groceries.

Well, on that first Monday, Delcie Bush and I were the first two that came in. We were the first two that used the minibus.

Senator CLARK. How long ago was that?

Mrs. STROEBER. February of this year.

TRIPS PROVE TIME CONSUMING

The next week I had an appointment with the doctor and that took up quite a bit of time. Then the next week I brought in my income tax and talked with a lawyer, and that took quite a little time.

Now there were three times that whoever brought me would have lost quite a bit of time, so I felt it was very much worthwhile. There are other times that I need to go to the bank and business and things, so in a business way it has helped me very much and I know it has relieved the pressure on some of my neighbors.

We ladies rather enjoy coming in on the bus. If we have nothing else, we come in and shop. The men-I think the big thing they like are those meals. [Laughter.]

Senator CLARK. Sounds typical.

Mrs. STROEBER. All of us live in homes by ourselves; we are all single living in our own homes. They are older homes. I don't think any of us have a fancy home. My house is over 100 years old, but we put in new floors, new windows, insulated it, and it is quite comfortable. I live there very comfortably and the minibus does help. Now I do go to town once in a while. I don't depend on the minibus altogether; people bring me in for different things. There is something closed that is not open Monday and so other people do bring me in part of the time, but that minibus does help.

Everything that I can, I schedule for Monday, so I do not bother my friends.

Macksburg is just a little town of 142 people. There is nowhere that you can buy medicines. We have no doctor there. It was founded by a doctor-a Dr. Macks founded Macksburg 100 years ago. I have been around there for 40 years and there has not been a doctor there. Senator CLARK. So the closest doctor would be what, 17 miles?

Mrs. STROEBER. About 16 miles. Well, maybe by the time you get in town it probably might be 17 miles. If you go the other way, it is a couple miles on farther to Greenfield. All of these are county seat towns. I don't know whether any of the little towns have a doctor

any more.

Greenfield is the county seat to the west of us and I am 19 miles from it, so we are quite a little distance from a doctor. Of course, you know I must get appointments with my doctor on Monday; I can't get in through the week.

Senator CLARK. That is right; you can only get sick on Mondays. [Laughter.]

Mrs. STROEBER. I keep a kind of standing appointment once a month for a check-up, so I get along very well there.

A number of the people want to know why in the world don't I move in here to Winterset, but there is a housing shortage here. There is wonderful, low-cost housing for the elderly, but it is only half big enough. Because I own my farm, I could not get in there anyway. I might have to go up to the top of some of these stores and have a great long staircase to climb to find an apartment.

ADVANTAGE TO LIVING AT HOME

I am much more comfortable at home where I can have my garden, my flowers, and I can watch my crops grow, and go out and look my cattle over and see how they are doing, and so on. Usually if you live on your own place you see little things that need repair and things that somebody else does not notice. If it is stopped right in the beginning, it does not cost nearly so much to take care of.

This spring, we had so much dry weather. I thought, "I have never been down to that pond yet this spring. I should be going down to look at it." So I went down. It is quite a little walk down there but, I thought, I must go down and look. The pond supplies drinking water for the cattle. I went down and looked, and it was the lowest the water level had ever been while we had been there. I went around the pond.

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