Senator CLARK. How many of the people are over, say 60 or 65 in Canton?

ANSWER. 600.

Senator CLARK. What kind of program do you think you ought to have that you don't have?

ANSWER. I think we should have just about everything except I will tell you

Senator CLARK. What most do you think you should have?

ANSWER. What most? I will tell you one thing that we do not have that I think is quite essential. We have many, many people who might have $5,000 in a savings account. They cannot live on their social security and yet they are not eligible for SSI or food stamps because of that $5,000 in the savings account.

Senator CLARK. I see.

ANSWER. What is $5,000 today?

Senator CLARK. It is nothing.

ANSWER. You can be in the hospital 10 days and it is gone. We all need just a little security like $5,000 in a savings account which is very little, but it is security for a lot of people. They cannot live on social security or the interest off that, and they are not eligible for SSI as long as they have $5,000. Why can't they have $20,000 or $50,000? Why can't we work and make all the money we possibly can to build our own social security? We pay into that.

Senator CLARK, Yes.

ANSWER. There is a group of people in between SSI and the people that have more money and that is the people that are just over the edge, they have a little bit too much to get SSI and they are the ones that are hurting because they have to pay for all their own medications and all that. If they are on SSI, this is worth $1 million because they have all their doctor bills paid and all their hospital bills paid. Up until just now they could get glasses. They really have it made. But the people that have just a little bit over what they need to get on SSI are the ones that are really hurting, they are the ones I feel sorry for right now.

Senator CLARK. Tell me the reasons that a person would be on SSI rather than social security.

ANSWER. Well, there are a lot of them that never paid into social security, or probably very little. I was on the SSI alert and I ran out. Many people were living on a $78 social security check.

Senator CLARK. So the only reason you would be on SSI is that you either paid nothing or too little into social security, and therefore can't qualify.

ANSWER. That is right. A lot of these people are 85 or 90 years old, and their husbands were farmers. The farmers were not allowed to pay into social security, so they never paid anything.

Senator CLARK. Will the day come when there will be no SSIeverybody will be covered by social security?

ANSWER. I don't know. SSI is the supplement, and I don't know. Do you know what the maximum is if you have not paid in?

Senator CLARK. It is about $100.

ANSWER. Seventy-seven dollars.
Senator CLARK. If you have not paid in.

HOUSING SHORTAGE

What about housing for older people in Canton? How is that? Is it good or bad?

ANSWER. We need more. What we have is excellent. I live in Government supplemental housing.

Senator CLARK. How many units are there?

ANSWER. Twenty-four.

Senator CLARK. Is that all there is in the whole town?

ANSWER. We have another one with 20 units.

Senator CLARK. Twenty.

ANSWER. So that is 44.

Senator CLARK. I notice there was the Lincoln County border. Notice the air-you can tell it when we came across that county line.

ANSWER. Everybody take a deep breath. That was a barnyard you smelled.

Senator CLARK. I will tell you, that corn does not look too bad. It is not too tall though, is it?

ANSWER. The ears don't have any kernels on them.

Senator CLARK. I see. Then you do need some additional housing units? There is a demand for more?

ANSWER. Yes.

Senator CLARK. One of the big problems, of course, is just having adequate income to be able to afford the things you need.

ANSWER. That is right. I have social security and I have a very small bank account. On my social security it is pretty hard to feed myself and keep my car. I live 10 or 12 blocks-close to town.

Government supplement-I pay $135 a month.

Senator CLARK. Those of you who live in housing that has been built in part by Government funds, would they have a rent supplement program so that you don't have to pay more than a quarter of your income in rent?

ANSWER. Yes.

Senator CLARK. I think that would be helpful.

ANSWER. Low-income housing. I live in low-rent housing.

Senator CLARK. If we had any more money to distribute or we could increase the appropriations, what would you like to see occur in the kinds of programs you have? Nutrition, health care, transportation, green thumb employment, some other employment-what would you like to see? What do you think the need will be next year?

EFFECT OF MANDATORY RETIREMENT

ANSWER. I wonder if employment would not be the best help. Our administrator is a man-how old, 72? How old is Bob? He was sick and almost disabled until he got a job with the green thumb program for 3 days a week. He has to get up in the morning 3 days a week, get dressed, and go to work. He is a different man.

Senator CLARK. Isn't that something!

ANSWER. Otherwise, he was sick in bed every day. At least 3 days a week. It is not only the money, but having to get up and be somewhere at a certain time.

ANSWER. I think that is the answer.

Senator CLARK. In my judgment, and I know there are a lot of people who disagree with me-we got into an argument yesterday at the hearing, but I think the worst thing we have ever done in this country for older people is to have mandatory retirement.

ANSWER. That is right.

Senator CLARK. That, to me, does not make any sense. If at age 65 I am an excellent Senator, I don't see why I should not continue. If I am an excellent doctor, I don't see why I should not continue. If I am an excellent laborer or farmer or whatever-I think anybody ought to be able to retire at 60 or 62 or 65, but it ought to be their choice.

ANSWER. That is right.

Senator CLARK. I don't see why you have to force them.

ANSWER. That is a different thing if you are working for yourself. This Bob owned his own business and he got sick. Now because he has a boss, he has to be at work at a certain time and he is there. When he was on his own, he was tired. We have farmers like that who retire because, probably, they are not able to farm so they retire at an early age and are absolutely not much good. But if they do get a job and have to be there, they are in better shape healthwise.

Senator CLARK. I know, of course, the other problem that is tough is the problem of inflation. I had a great uncle who retired on the farm in about 1938 and is still living. He retired probably at 60, something like that, and sold his farm for $10,000. Well, he thought he had all the money in the world he would ever need in 1938 with $10,000. He didn't see any reason in the world not to retire. Now, of course, he has lived on far beyond what anybody ever assumed, but he was broke at the end of the war and that money was gone. That was all there was to it.

It is just hard to understand how much inflation you can have in a very brief period of time. You retire, and 10 years later you have got what may not be worth half as much, and 13 or 14 years later it is not worth that much.

ANSWER. I don't think that our elderly should have to live below the poverty level. There are many, many of them who are able to work, and they should be able to.

The reason for social security was to create more jobs. If you still work after that, at the same time you are not allowed to create any more jobs. That was the main idea-for more employment.

Senator CLARK. Yes.

Has the drought out here been pretty serious in your area?

ANSWER. It has been bad. See the corn-now there is not much there. Senator CLARK. It is pretty small, isn't it?

ANSWER. No ears, just the stalk.

Senator CLARK. What about small grain-oats?

ANSWER. If we have a fair crop, I will be surprised.

Senator CLARK. Is there much wheat grown in this area?

ANSWER. Not much. Very little wheat.

Senator CLARK. Are beans standard, a little bit more than corn?

ANSWER. Yes; here is a 1,100-acre farm right here.

Senator CLARK. Land now is selling at $2,400 an acre.

Well, did you enjoy the hearing?

ANSWER. Very much.

What do you think about this van situation?

Senator CLARK. It is kind of interesting. I never thought about it before, but it is kind of interesting.

ANSWER. You think that is a pretty good idea?

Senator CLARK. Might be.

ANSWER. You would think they could make money out of it where they could go out to a town and sell the thing out, and then go on to another town.

ANSWER. The price of gas is high.

Senator CLARK. My Dad used to do that-go out to the country. He had an old panel truck. This was in the 1930's. He did it until the war, I suppose-in 1940, 1941, 1942.

ANSWER. It sounds interesting.

Senator CLARK. You had a small town that had no grocery store. ANSWER. I would think it would be almost a necessity in the western part of the State.

Our transportation is a problem.

Senator CLARK. You have smaller towns between towns.
ANSWER. Yes.

Senator CLARK. How big is Fairview?

ANSWER. I am sure they have neighbors to drive them in, but it is not too good.

Senator CLARK. I think I would be that way, too. I mean you would not mind doing it sometimes, but you would hate to do it all the time. How many of you here no longer drive?

ANSWER. Everybody drives.

Senator CLARK. Everybody drives.

When did you get this bus?

ANSWER. Three years ago.

Senator CLARK. It is quite a bus.

ANSWER. Yes, we think it is pretty nice. This helps us. We can visit relatives in town.

Miss Mae had to take the bus today. You cannot trust the senior citizens. They say they will go to a meeting and they will not show up. Mae takes them and makes sure they go.

Senator CLARK. She knows she has a load. Is she kind of a slave driver?

ANSWER. Mae, are you a slave driver?

Senator CLARK. I know she is the busdriver.

ANSWER. She is not a slave driver, but she is an inspirer. You understand that word.

Senator CLARK. I do.

ANSWER. She makes us all feel guilty if we don't do something good every day.

Senator CLARK. Good enough. Would it be all right if we take her where she is badly needed?

ANSWER. You don't take her.

Senator CLARK. We need a little inspiration in Washington, you know.

ANSWER. No, don't take Mae to Washington. She could do us a lot of good there, too. The town she lives in is not the size of Canton.

Senator CLARK. That is why she is so darn good. It is not by accident that you are praising somebody who lives in Iowa. [Laughter.]

ANSWER. I was born in Iowa.

Senator CLARK. Where?

ANSWER. Marcus.

Senator CLARK. I know where Marcus is. I have been in Marcus. I

went to a centennial in Marcus.

ANSWER. Did you go to it?

Senator CLARK. Yes. I walked in the parade.

Mr. STENGLE. My wife was born in North Dakota in a sod house. Senator CLARK. In a sod house?

Mrs. STENGLE. Yes.

Senator CLARK. How long ago was this?

Mrs. STENGLE. My parents went there.

Senator CLARK. Do you know what year they went to North Dakota? Mrs. STENGLE, 1906-well, 1905.

Senator CLARK. They lived in a sod house. Did you ever read this book by Willa Cather called Oh Pioneers? You ought to get it. Do you have a library in Canton? I tell you, it is a great book because she lived in about that same time. She is dead now. She lived in a sod house out in Frisco, and it is either in Nebraska or Kansas-I think Nebraska-and wrote all about life at that time. It is a novel, but it is based on her own life when she was a young girl living in a sod house. You would like it.

Mrs. STENGLE. The sod house that my father built for my motherthey homesteaded on 72 quarters. They were married and they built a two-room sod house with an attic. The roof of our house and the walls were plastered with gumbo.

Senator CLARK. Gumbo.

Mrs. STENGLE. Yes.

Aung Aggie, the pastor, and the traders that came along made it their home. They would sleep in our attic.

Senator CLARK. How long did you live there?

Mrs. STENGLE. I was 9 years old when they moved.

Senator CLARK. So you remember it.

Mrs. STENGLE. Yes. My father was responsible for one of the first consolidation schools. I went 4 miles.

Senator CLARK. You walked 4 miles?

Mrs. STENGLE. No, no.

Senator CLARK. You rode 4 miles.

Mrs. STENGLE. We would have high school students.

Mr. STENGLE. Transportation was not a problem then, they walked. Mrs. STENGLE. We rode horse and buggy.

Senator CLARK. You drove the horse and buggy to school. Now what years would that have been?

Mrs. STENGLE. Well, I was born in 1908.

Senator CLARK. So it was during the First World War.

Mrs. STENGLE. Yes, because we moved down here in 1917.

Senator CLARK. It was a sod house. Was most of it below the ground, or was it all above?

Mrs. STENGLE. This was all above. They had dugouts, but the house was above ground.

Senator CLARK. What was the dugout for?

Mrs. STENGLE. To store our crops and our potatoes.
Senator CLARK. Kind of a cellar.

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