As the Senator noted, I am president of the association that includes all of the community action agencies in the State. Our association includes nine agencies total; seven of these are multicounty rural agencies, the other two are metropolitan agencies that also serve some limited rural area around the metropolitan centers. I believe Mr. George Woods, our State director, will be submitting some more written testimony to you before September 15, so I am just briefly going to touch upon a few things here.

As you perhaps know, the community action agencies were leaders in most areas in the development of senior citizen programs and services throughout the State. CAP agencies were established back in 1965 and the early part of 1966; CAP programs have developed over the years since then including transportation, nutrition, telephone reassurance, social and recreational activities through senior service centers, health services and clinics and, most recently, our winterization program.

Incidentally, you may be interested in knowing that in the past 2 years or a little less-the CAP's have winterized approximately 2.550 homes, and 75 percent of these or 1,800-were homes of elderly persons living on fixed or limited incomes.

All of these services that I have mentioned are still, in many cases, being operated by community action agencies. Other service agencies in more recent months have entered the field of providing services. This, in particular, includes the area agencies on aging. I believe Mr. Soukup spoke just briefly about some duplication and, perhaps, problems regarding this type of thing earlier. I would have to support this statement, but I hope that the CAP's and the AAA's are on their way to working out these problems and will coordinate efforts in the future. In fact, the State CAP association will be making some recommendations to the Commission on Aging at their meeting in September and, hopefully, this will help resolve some of those problems.

I think the CAP's are unique in many respects. They have capabilities that are not available or are not used by any other human service providers. One of these that I think is particularly important is the efficiency of the CAP's. By law our administrative costs cannot exceed 15 percent, and the most recent reports from throughout the State indicate that our administrative costs are approximately 11 percent at this time. I also think we have a unique capability of mobilizing volunteers. An example is in southeast Nebraska-the Humboldt area. The CAP down there has a nutrition program that only costs them about $1.35 a meal because they are using all volunteer labor. I think one can see the obvious saving here.

Another plus which I think the CAP's have is that they have combined other State and Federal moneys, such as Department of Labor funds, title XX moneys from the department of social services, and others, thus stretching the dollar so we can serve more people.

I could probably go on and on about our unique capabilities, but I know of the tightness of your time frame and that everyone is anxious to close the session here. I would like to thank you for your time. Mr. Woods will be submitting some more written testimony.

Senator CLARK. Good. We will be very happy to have that testimony and it will be made a part of the record as if given here. Any other comments that you would like to make, submit them as well.

I know Mr. John Buck of Creighton University has a statement, and again I would ask him and others here who have statementsbecause two or three other people approached me as we came in this morning, and others called ahead-if they would be kind enough to give us their statements in writing, they will be included in the record. This is John Buck.

If you could just summarize your statement in about 20 or 30 seconds and then give us your written statement, it will be included in the record in full.

STATEMENT OF JOHN BUCK, CREIGHTON INSTITUTE FOR BUSINESS, LAW, AND SOCIAL RESEARCH, OMAHA, NEBR.

Mr. Buck. I am John Buck and I am an advocate of legal services for the elderly. I do have a longer speech that I could give. The need for legal services has not really been brought out, with the exception of Mr. Magnusson's and Dorothy Switzer's comments. The first reason the agency in area 10 in Iowa found that persons were not utilizing assistance as offered by their legal services program was that the elderly persons were found to not realize they had a problem requiring legal assistance.

A second point is the National Senior Citizens Law Center has determined that approximately 90 percent of the legal questions that the elderly have can be answered without the assistance of an attorney; for example, by a paralegal person. There are retired attorneys who do belong to RSVP and who do volunteer their services.

In Nebraska, the only place that the elderly persons can presently get the assistance of an attorney, without having to pay $40, $50, or $60 per hour, are the three legal aide offices in Omaha, Lincoln, and Scottsbluff. Therein lies the problem that was mentioned about transportation needs. For example, the rural elderly don't have access to transportation to Omaha. But Omaha Legal Aid requires that legal assistance be given directly in the office-the elderly cannot call up and ask questions. They have to go into the office physically, which presents a great problem for them.

I work with Creighton University and we suggest, as a possible solution to this problem, the establishment of a legal information center for rural elderly which would operate with a WATS line, which is a toll-free telephone that anyone in the State of Nebraska could call. The center could provide answers to legal questions when a lawyer's services are not needed and where the presence of the elderly person would not be necessary. Second, it could provide case research for the attorney servicing the elderly which would then, hopefully, lower the cost of the legal services.

I am being cut off now, but Lizzie Springer brought up an excellent example where such a center could be very useful which she could have called the legal information center that we suggest. Perhaps we could have gotten the ball rolling to get her the assistance that she needed and she would not have needed to wait 2 years for a telephone. I thank you.

Senator CLARK. Thank you.

We will make your full statement a part of the record. [The prepared statement of Mr. Buck follows]:

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JOHN BUCK

First of all, thank you for the invitation to attend this meeting about the special needs of the rural elderly. It is most encouraging that the Senate is continuing its interest in the problems of the elderly and specifically in relation to those living in rural areas. Older Americans live "needing" adequate income, housing, health care, nutrition, and employment much more acutely than do younger people. There exists a vast array of laws which have been designed to, and in most instances do, assist the elderly to be better able to live independently within this society, but these laws are too numerous and usually too technical for a layman (especially an older person) to be able to understand. The particular area, in relation to the Older Americans Act of 1975, which I would briefly like to address is the problem which the elderly have in obtaining legal assistance, especially in rural America.

Elderly persons most often live on fixed incomes; the source of which could be social security, supplemental security income, pensions, or possibly their life savings. No matter what the source, however, these incomes are usually fixed, and less than that to which the elderly were accustomed to in their working years. They are particularly susceptible to the effects of inflation, but generally do not qualify for legal aid.

As Senator Tunney stated last year, "Unfortunately, few elderly can afford the $40, $50, or even $60 per hour fee charged by the average lawyer. Thus, they fall through the cracks of the legal system: Too rich for legal aid; too poor for a lawyer." Senator Cranston added that "The situation of the nondestitute elderly with respect to legal representation may be even more acute than that of the elderly poor. The former have too much income or resources to qualify for free legal service and yet often cannot afford to hire a private attorney." In many instances, even where attorneys are available, they may not be able to provide adequate services-often they do not have the time or resources available to keep up-to-date on the rapidly changing laws which affect older Americans' lives. This is especially a problem in rural areas, since these lawyers rarely have access to complete law libraries, and do not specialize in law affecting the elderly.

In a survey performed by the Area X Agency on Aging, the reasons for the area's elderly not seeking the assistances offered by legal services were: "(1) Not realizing that they have a problem requiring the assistance of an attorney; (2) confused or frustrated about legal affairs; (3) lack of aggressiveness; and (4) can't afford legal services." In addition, the National Senior Citizen's Law Center has estimated that approximately 90 percent of the legal questions which elderly persons have could be taken care of by the provision of legal information without direct legal representation from a lawyer. With these facts in mind, and a stated purpose of the Older Americans Act being to provide “legal and other counseling services," it seems that solutions to some of these problems should be forthcoming. Before these solutions are determined, careful consideration should be given to the long neglected problems of the rural elderly. A review of the 11 model projects funded last year (designed to promote the betterment of legal services for the elderly) reveals none with the select purpose of serving rural elderly.

The rural environment multiplies the difficulties the elderly have in procuring legal assistance. First, accessibility of private lawyers is lowered and these rural attorneys lack the necessary resources for case research. Since the legal questions of the elderly deal with such a vast number of laws, and rural attorneys would usually not have a caseload sufficient to warrant becoming an expert in the field of elderly law, the assistance which these attorneys can provide may often be limited. In Nebraska, elderly persons (over age 60) comprise the third highest percentage of population of all the States. The only legal assistance presently available to elderly citizens stems from the urban legal aid offices in Omaha, Lincoln, and Scottsbluff. These offices are usually inundated with requests from low-income persons, elderly, and nonelderly alike. In Omaha, legal aid requires that the requester of service must physically come into the office, which may often be impossible for confined elderly. In addition, what of the elderly who live too far from the legal aid offices, and what of those who are too rich for legal aid, but too poor for a lawyer? How can these older Americans receive the assistance they need to live independently in this society?

We would propose, as a possible solution to these law-related problems of the rural elderly, the establishment of a legal information center for rural

elderly, which would essentially provide service to three groups, with the end purpose to serve the needs of older rural Americans. The center would provide research to lawyers serving the elderly, would train social service personnel about the law affecting the elderly, and would directly answer some of the elderlys' legal questions in instances where the direct assistance of an attorney was not required. The center could provide information about the family farm, inheritance, consumer fraud, or tax laws and could refer elderly to such existing social services such as the small claims court. Since such a center could operate in each State, drawing on the law schools and other resources located therein, it should be designed so that, if a model is successful, it could be easily replicated by other "rural" States. We hope to propose establishing such a center in Nebraska to the Administration on Aging, and while it is not presently known whether or not it will ever be funded, it is evident that the rural elderly need legal assistance of the type that model urban programs do not and cannot provide. Any effort to promote the provision of legal services to rural elderly (such as the Older American Act of 1975) should be strongly supported by all concerned parties, and we encourage such efforts.

Senator CLARK. This room is going to be used at 12 noon for a congregate meals program, so we have to break up at this point.

I do want to call on Congressman McCollister.

Representative MCCOLLISTER. Senator, the only comment I want to make is to commend you for the organization of these 2 hours and 5 minutes that has produced, I think, a record that ought to be very useful to the Congress in determining the priorities of legislation. It has been an excellent job and I commend the Senator from Iowa for coming to Nebraska to hear from our citizens.

Thank you.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much.

I think we have received a lot of valuable information. If I could try to summarize it in about 8 or 10 sentences, it seems to me that what we have learned here is that we have unique needs in rural areas, yet, in fact, particularly in the area of transportation, we have even greater needs than we have in metropolitan areas.

We have heard about the value here of the nutrition program-hot meals. We have heard a great deal about the need for extended health care into some of the smaller communities. We mentioned Western, but really there obviously are other communities as well across this State and across the country that are badly in need of additional health services. We have heard about the problem of housing in rural areas. We have heard just now about the need for additional legal services.

So the demands are many and I would be hopeful that coming out of this hearing and other hearings that are being held in other parts of the country we can design some programs now that are uniquely beneficial in helping to solve the problems of people who live in rural America.

We thank you very much for coming.

Mr. SOUKUP. We would like to say thank you to Senator Clark and Congressman McCollister for being here with us.

Senator CLARK. Thank you. This hearing is now recessed. [Whereupon, at 12:13 p.m., the hearing was recessed.]

APPENDIXES

Appendix 1

LETTERS FROM INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS ITEM 1. LETTER FROM EDWIN L. CORDING, OFFICE OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, HEBRON, NEBR.; TO SENATOR DICK CLARK, DATED AUGUST 10, 1976

DEAR SENATOR CLARK: I am the chairman of the Blue Rivers Agency on Aging which comprises Gage, Jefferson, and Thayer Counties in Nebraska, and a commitment to Richardson County for a nutrition program which is to start soon. In the first three named counties we started with a transportation program: two buses, now a third has been added, and all are running at full capacity and as per schedule. We had some difficulty with funding. After being in operation 2 years we were informed by the Commission on Aging that the third year's funding would not be available. This problem has been worked out, however. The main problem now is in local funding as all three counties are at the mill-levy limit as allowed by the Nebraska statutes.

In Thayer County, of which I am a member of the county board, we cut 0.60 mill from our road and bridge levy last year to come under the 14.28 levy limit. This, of course, is the last one that should be cut since we need our roads and bridges updated so desperately.

Our elderly problem for the up-coming winter will be the terrific cost of fuel to keep warm which takes a large part of their welfare income and leaves very little to subsist on.

Our agency on aging sends us a monthly report of expenses and work done in the various departments. I only wish the community action programs would do the same.

I may not be able to get to the meeting at Gretna, but I am sure our director, Fred Holtz, will be there and could answer any questions you may have. Willard Gumar may also be there from our board.

I am enclosing a levy sheet' from Thayer County for your review if you like. Sincerely yours,

EDWIN L. CORDING.

ITEM 2. LETTER FROM DELBERT L. NIEMEIER, STATE DIRECTOR, GREEN THUMB, INC., LINCOLN, NEBR.; TO KATHLEEN DEIGNAN, STAFF MEMBER, SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING, DATED AUGUST 10, 1976

DEAR MS. DEIGNAN: Enclosed are some statistical facts and figures about the people who are enrolled in the Green Thumb project here in Nebraska.

In 1975 the estimated number of people eligible for Green Thumb in Nebraska was 49,783 persons. At that time only 107 Green Thumb positions were available. This is only 0.215 percent of the total available.

In 1975 the estimated number of people eligible for Green Thumb in the 14 counties in Nebraska where Green Thumb operates was 15,976 persons. Again only 107 positions for part-time work were available, or only 0.6 percent of the total available older work force.

In June 1976 in Nebraska, the total enrollment in the Green Thumb project was 118 people. Their average age was 70 years and 1 month. Their average

1 Retained in committee files.