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has worked with the area agency on aging in providing transportation services, so he knows his subject.

Lastly with this panel I want you to meet Ben Grismore, who has lived in this area most of his life and is particularly interested in the transportation system. He helped with its implementation, helped to develop the first plan for a transportation system in his home county, which is over at Wayne County, and I know is very active in a number of things over there.

So, Ben, you may proceed.

STATEMENT OF BEN GRISMORE, CORYDON, IOWA

Mr. GRISMORE. Senator Clark, other dignitaries, and guestsI would like to say first, Senator, they are going to be hard for me to follow. The only way to half way keep up with them is to start out with Mars.

Senator CLARK. With Mars, yes.

Mr. GRISMORE. I will get ahead of them some way.

I, too, concur with what they have said and I would like to say that I appreciate very much this opportunity of being able to expres my views, even though they may not have much value on the subjec of senior citizen transportation.

It was my privilege to be able to observe this program from th very beginning. How this came about was because I think, back in 1972, give or take a year, seven or eight counties in Iowa were bein considered for a model county. Well, during that time we were bein interviewed a lot from agencies like the Office of Planning and Pro graming to see if our needs would merit this project and, of course we are competing with seven or eight other counties.

Along in September in that same year we got that distinction fro the Governor, and he did admit this was a model county.

The first thing we did was set up committees, like on HEW, com munity development, natural resources, and so forth, to study th needs of our county, and then they would be reported to see wha would be feasible with this particular program. There were 25 or people on each of these committees and they were enthusiastic in th beginning, and stayed that way. They would bring in the needs to compiled on what they thought.

It didn't take very long to begin to see in our county, the rur county end of area 15, that the need was there for elderly peop After that need began to be compiled, then naturally committe began to get anxious to have something happen because they want a county that was going to be active.

TRANSPORTATION GRANT SOUGHT

We got this message through Bob Case who, at that time, was t director of rural urban development under OPB. We said, "Bob, need a sign. We need something to happen." He said, "You are goi to get it. Just in a few days we are going to get a grant, and in th grant you will be able to purchase a senior citizens bus." He sa "Now, this will be the first bus of this kind in the Nation."

That is where the Senator brought out the ground floor plan, and so in a few days this happened. We got a grant and were able to purchase a bus-I think an 11- or 12-passenger bus. We were able to employ a dispatcher, a driver, a headquarters, and start in.

We then had set up a Wayne County Senior Citizens Transportation Co-op Board and they handled the affairs at that time. The funding was through OEO and through model county, so that board handled the affairs of this operation.

It was my privilege, along with George Mosher, who was on the board also, to take this bus on its first trip. It didn't take us very long after we picked up a few riders and heard the commotion-how they began to lay plans for the future since they were going to be able to have this kind of transportation.

We realized that senior citizens transportation had a great potential. I watched this from then on and I watched this thing progress. I watched older people up in the little apartment on the third floor, in a little home of their own, or maybe in a housing program, wherever they may be I watched them take on new-because why? Because they could now go down and do their own grocery shopping without having to send for it. They could keep a doctor's appointment. They could visit a relative across town or maybe in another town. Why? Because they feel so good about it, because they didn't want to obligate and ask their next door neighbor or their friends or their relatives, who would have been glad to have given it to them.

They would have, but yet you have to remember that these people at that age our age, let's face it-reared their families some 40 or 50 years ago and they were brought up that they could only do it by being self-sustaining. They were not used to them doing all the favors that we have today.

They are proud people and so, therefore, if they could not do this within their budget and if they could not hire the taxi to take them these places where they wanted to go, they just simply didn't go. They just sacrificed themselves and stayed at home, as has been mentioned here before.

So with this type of transportation, they have been allowed to get out without being obligated to people, and to live like they would like to live, and live a lot longer. I am sure about it.

Now, getting back to the funding part that has been mentioned here. I hope, Senator, that it can continue to be funded through Federal, State, or however, rather than getting back at any local level. Now maybe these things should come back to the local level, but if they did I am sure we would drag our feet enough that it would never be successful-to make a program like this efficient.

INDIRECT ASSISTANCE

Another thing, if it comes through these other levels high up, then we are not sensitive about it. We don't realize when we get on that bus that it is done because the board of supervisors, the chamber of commerce, the ladies aid all put some money in so they could do it. We are all too proud. It is coming indirectly and we hope it can be added to and expanded. I am sure it is going to increase riders and make every

body ride it because the nice thing about this is what we promoted about it in our country-55 years or older, whether you have $50 million or nothing, you can ride that bus and we encourage that to see that people like that.

So for that reason I am greatly interested in the progress of it and want it to continue and not diminish in any way, but to expand. It is not going to last too long and you have a never-ending thing, except make it so it can stay there and grow.

I might say, too, that if you had been on that bus with George and I, you would be just as enthusiastic as we are.

Thank you, Senator.

Senator CLARK. Thank you.

I appreciate all three statements. I have ridden on the bus from time to time, in fact I am going to ride one on Wednesday again. I know what you mean because I have talked with a number of people who testified-in fact, even this morning over in Winterset-that, without that transportation, they never would be able to do the things that are important for them to do.

Mr. McMillin, you serve on the State legislative council of the American Association of Retired Persons. How do you represent the needs of elderly people on that council? I mean, what function? Do you have meetings? What is the mechanism by which you relate the ideas that you have to the council and what effect do you feel that they have?

Mr. MCMILLIN. Well, we are actually a legislative committee and we set up priorities during the year to go before our State legislature more than we do on a national level.

One of our top priorities the last 2 years, and will be next year, is transportation. Then we try to set up meetings with the chapters and units of the retired teachers to discuss these priorities, and they may contact their legislators to see that these priorities are considered through legislation like anything else.

It is a long process. Priorities stay at the top of the list all the way through.

Senator CLARK. Do you feel you have had a positive effect on the State legislature and on the programs?

Mr. McMILLIN. The last session of the Iowa legislature provided an appropriation of $2 million to implement a State assistance plan. for public transportation.

Also, an additional bill was passed to require the department of transportation, in part, to assist localities at their request, to coordinate transportation services as common carrier cab services, handicap, elderly, and private nonprofit agencies services.

We feel that our efforts have had some impact.

Ottumwa is in the unique position in Iowa that we don't have enonch population to be in any Federal program. We are under

50.000.

Senator CLARK. Right.

DEPARTMENT PROMISES $40,000

Mr. McMILLIN. So Iowa DOT has promised Ottumwa and Burlington about $40,000 to supplement their bus service in Ottumwa. The legislative process may seem slow to my peers, but I feel we are accomplishing something.

Transportation is just as important as the fire department or law enforcement and it is going to have to be subsidized by local taxing bodies as well as at Federal and State levels.

We have got to admit that we have to participate in this effort. People our ages paid their share before, and I think we will and can continue providing assistance.

Senator CLARK. Now, I was going to ask Dr. Burrows-any of you may pitch in on these answers where you may have some particular information. Do the elderly people of this community feel that there is a greater need for transportation-that the need is not yet completely met and that there is a greater need for services than we now have?

Dr. BURROWS. I am sure the answer is an unequivocal yes, they do feel that we need more transportation. As I mentioned, we need special days and longer hours. Our drivers work from 8 to 4, I believe. Who can get through their shopping or away from the doctor's office before?

Maybe it is 8 to 5, but they just don't have long enough there. So res, we need more.

Of course, I am not sure, Senator, how the Federal revenue sharing goes, but I am pretty sure in our county that we get the small end of the stick on the Federal revenue sharing. I wish there was some way of gouging that up a little. I suppose that is a State affair. Maybe you don't tell the States how to share it, but I think it is there.

Senator CLARK. I might say in that regard that on a national level, only 1 percent of the revenue sharing is used for aging services, so it is very, very small.

Mr. McMILLIN. Even under our city-financed transportation system with regard to the elderly people, Ottumwa does not have, as Dr. Burrows said, these longer hours. There is no way to get to downtown Ottumwa after 5:30, even when the stores are open on Thursday night. We don't have a way to get to the various supermarkets because the transit system is not flexible.

The cities need help to provide comprehensive transportation over the city and between towns. Some of our county seats don't even have bus service. We are lucky here to have as much as we do. Some county seats don't have any connections and it has to be provided by private, nonprofit, and/or Federal funds-a minibus service.

Senator CLARK. You only have one bus in each county, isn't that the setup?

Mr. McMILLIN. Yes.

Senator CLARK. Is that adequate?

"WE... WANT TO KEEP GROWING"

Mr. GRISMORE. Senator, I say our county is only about 8,000 or 8.500, and I am not saying what is adequate. Maybe we have all we should have at the moment. We just want to keep growing. This is not true for the areas where I see these people here are from.

I will say these people make a trip twice a year-once in the spring, once in the fall. We have an all-out county picnic. We take that buswe could use three, four, or five buses--but it would not warrant having to get other cars to do that. We just have a whale of a time. We do it twice a year and are looking forward to the next one, because

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they meet Susie over here in the other county and they had not seen her for years.

Senator CLARK. Tell me, what did people do before these buses were developed in each county? You were in Wayne County, of course. How did people get around in Wayne?

Mr. GRISMORE. They just waited for their son to come in off the farm when he was not busy, and while he was willing to; but they didn't want to obligate him and they just stayed home. That is the

answer.

As I said, they are a proud people and they are not going to obligate their friends and relatives any more than they have to. This is to let them live again, in my opinion.

Senator CLARK. Let me ask you one other question, Mr. Grismore. Given the status of the present program and what you have been able to do up until now, which is remarkably good, what ought we do to improve it further? What things would you like to see in the next 5 years or the next 10 years, and so forth? Do you have any particular recommendations?

Mr. GRISMORE. I am sure there are many things, but I cannot answer that as I should. I know we were able, through OEO a couple years ago, to trade back and get another bus and have money that was left over. It leaves us in a little different shape than the other counties, because we did have the go from the beginning. We had a good grant at the time and carried over enough money. Our bus is good, and so on. It would be fine if you could raise their wages-I am sure of that because they do work hard for what they get as far as the personnel is concerned. But beyond that, I think they are giving us all that we are entitled to, compared with the way the rest of the counties are doing.

Senator CLARK. You pick up door-to-door, at the stations, or how? Mr. GRISMORE. They pick them up door-to-door and make the arrangements in the different towns-visit the son in the evening or pick up in the evening-for a very economical charge, and it is being used.

Senator CLARK. How much is it?

Mr. GRISMORE. Thirty-five cents to anywhere in town-to go grocery shopping. Then, again, if they pick them up, it is another 35 cents. They will take them anywhere in the county for 60 cents.

Mrs. RYAN. It is not a charge, it is a donation.

Senator CLARK. Donation?

Mr. GRISMORE. That's right. I might say we tried a $5 membership to begin with as a donation. We dropped that just before Indian Hills became the sponsor about that time because we felt that even the $5, if you are watching your budget-and they live on a fixed income and a budget-they may say, "Well, we better wait and not do it." We did away with that, and the rest is a donation.

Senator CLARK. Would others like to comment on ways in which you think this program could be improved?

COMMITMENT NEEDED

Mr. MCMILLIN. I think the main thing is to have a commitment for these services from Federal, State, and local governments that these

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