Mr. CoMSTOCK. Senator, I think they would say substantially the same. If the hour is drawing to a close, and I think they are getting rather tired, maybe you would like to or would you prefer to talk to one or two of them?

Senator RANDOLPH. I want to be flexible in the way these citizens are to be heard. You know them better than the chairman. And if you feel that you would want to have them come again and be introduced, I might just ask a quick question of each one. If you would have them come to that point and then face our guests, as it were, think that would be appropriate.

I

Mr. CoMSTOCK. Marvin, the Senator would like to ask you some questions about the past 80 club.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Poling, what is your age, may I ask?
Mr. POLING. Eighty-one.

Senator RANDOLPH. You are the youngster of the group here today. Mr. POLING. I have the honor of being a member of the past 80 club this last time.

Senator RANDOLPH. When was the past 80 meeting held this year? Mr. POLING. I believe it was in June.

Senator RANDOLPH. And as I understand you had over 200 in attendance?

Mr. POLING. Yes.

Senator RANDOLPH. Have you previously attended these meetings, not from the standpoint of being qualified, but to see what is being done.

Mr. POLING. Yes, I have, in the afternoon.

Senator RANDOLPH. Where is your residence?

Mr. POLING. Richwood.

Senator RANDOLPH. We are very happy to have you come before the subcommittee.

Mr. POLING. Thank you.

Senator RANDOLPH. And we wish for you a very joyous life in the future. Thank you so much.

Mr. POLING. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr. CoMSTOCK. Finley Morrison.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Morrison, I understand you are 94 years

young.

Mr. MORRISON. That is what they told me.

Senator RANDOLPH. Would you be kind enough to tell the committee where you were born?

Mr. MORRISON. I was born and raised in Nicholas County.

Senator RANDOLPH. And spent your life there?

Mr. MORRISON. Yes.

Senator RANDOLPH. Did you participate in the farming and lumbering activities of that county?

Mr. MORRISON. That is the way I made most of my living, was on a little farm.

Senator RANDOLPH. We have had testimony today that some 90 percent of our farms in West Virginia are able to produce only a gross income of $2,500 a year. Perhaps you had to get along on less than that sometimes.

Mr. MORRISON. Yes, sir; less than that.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Morrison, you have been helped by the past 80 club meetings?

Mr. MORRISON. Well, yes; I enjoy getting out with the people that I never would have known or never would have seen if it had not been for those boys getting up the past 80 club.

I don't know what I can do to help these boys for doing this. It has been a great help to me to go to these parties. I have attended each one, and I didn't think so much of the first one, but it got better, and it is still getting better and it is still growing, and I hope that we will have another one, and if I feel like I do now, why, I will be sure to be there. [Applause.]

Mr. COMSTOCK. I think you can see that this program is not rigged. John Bess.

John, the Senator would like to ask you some questions about the past 80 party.

Mr. BESS. Well, I will answer them the best I can.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Bess, that name indicates that perhaps you are of German or Swiss origin; is that right?

Mr. BESS. I am part German.

Senator RANDOLPH. I think you are what, 84?

Mr. BESS. Eighty-four.

Senator RANDOLPH. And you have been attending these past eighties parties?

Mr. BESS. I have.

Senator RANDOLPH. Do you have any comment to make on their value?

Mr. BESS. Yes; I think they are the finest thing that ever hit this county or in the State.

Senator RANDOLPH. You have enjoyed meeting these other older folks?

Mr. BESS. Yes. You meet your friends you would never have seen if it had not been for that, I think.

Senator RANDOLPH. And your earlier life was spent in lumbering or farming?

Mr. BESS. In lumbering work most of my life, lumbering in Virginia part of the time. And then I came here in 1902 and I have been

here ever since.

Senator RANDOLPH. We hope you will be here many years longer. Mr. BESS. Yes; I hope so. [Applause.]

Mr. COMSTOCK. And last we have Elmer Estep, the man who is famous for reading the Bible upside down.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Estep, I think you are 85 years young; is that correct?

Mr. ESTEP. Eighty-five.

Senator RANDOLPH. We know that you are a scholar. We have heard that from other people. Would you care to talk in your way about the value of an effort such as you participate in for older folk? Mr. ESTEP. Such an echoing I can't understand. I have impaired hearing.

I might say I bought a ticket for a first class ride over the B. & O. Railroad years ago, and I didn't get it. It throwed me over three seats and stood me on my head. I never got over that. I can't hear good.

You want to know what county I was born in? Kanawha County, right above Malden, September 1, 1874.

Senator RANDOLPH. Was there a salt works there active in that period?

Mr. ESTEP. Yes, sir. I helped my father drive hoops onto barrels. He was a hooper by trade. It was a small place then.

Senator RANDOLPH. We are very happy to have you here today and we are most grateful for your testimony at 85 about the value of keeping young. [Applause.]

Thank you very much, Jim.

We have here today accompanying Dr. Richardson from Huntington, two senior citizens. I wonder if Mrs. Julia Kerr would find it convenient to come to our microphone.

Mr. RICHARDSON. She stepped out just a moment ago.

Senator RANDOLPH. How about Twink Star? I wonder if he is under or over 65.

Mr. RICHARDSON. He is over 65.

Senator RANDOLPH. Twink Star is a twinkling man, and I knew him many years ago, and he was one of the valued members of the board of Davis and Elkins College.

Mr. STARR. I have been interested in the work of senior citizens in Huntington. I belong to the board there and we have a very active group. There is one thing—and I am also chairman of our committee for senior citizens in our First Presbyterian Church there. And the problem I find is with our men and I think that definitely the problem with senior citizens is the men. I find that the ladies apply themselves, and are being acclimated to being in their senior years much better than the men.

Frankly, there is some question about what is an older person. Usually the best definition I have heard is anyone that is 10 years older than yourself, and I believe that applies.

We have tried to get the men to take an active part but find it very hard to do, but we get fine cooperation from the ladies.

NEED FOR RETIREMENT PREPARATION

I think the point that has been brought out here this morning that we need to educate our people to prepare for retirement is one of the very important things that we must do in the future, is to prepare them, to prepare them financially, but also to prepare themselves for retirement, and that is that they have some hobbies and interests, and not wait until they retire to have those hobbies and interests. It is like some people in our church who always say, "When I retire I will do some church work," or "I will do this." But when they retire they have not done that and they are not prepared to do it then.

I think that one thing that I wish to commend Senator Jennings Randolph and his committee for trying to do something about this problem of the senior citizens which is a real big problem in our country today, and I think they are going to accomplish something worth while. I really think we need a real strong organization nationally for our seniors to help to carry this work together with the Government's help to bring these things about.

43350-60-pt. 5- 5

I think that a lot of it is really in education, in educating our people to become prepared for senior citizens, and then educating our communities to establish a place for senior citizens, a place that they can meet and carry on their meetings and their recreation and their hobbies, and really be a very important place in the community. This is often done, especially in Florida. If any of you go down to Florida you will find the recreation centers full of aged people who are very happy aged people. They carry on their shuffleboard and all the different kinds of sports, whether it is for archery and golf and fishing and bridge and canasta and different things, and don't think if you are pretty good at shuffleboard, don't try to beat any of those old fellows. They are really good.

I think nationally if we could get something that would really carry on to promote the leaving of money and raising of money for such centers in each city, like bequests and wills, which is something which is overlooked, and if this is brought to the attention of the citizens that they will really come through and do something for the senior citizens because everybody some day is going to need that, they are going to be a senior citizen some day.

About the idea that men are such a problem, I think it is brought out in the case of Huntington of a man who retired, who was the head of a national organization. He came home with no hobbies or interests, much, he had always worked hard, and was not handy about the house, and his wife became so disturbed she finally had to go out and get a job in order to get away from him. He was really a problem.

I think the thing is if we can education the folks to enjoy themselves, and I think the one thing that I have learned that they can accomplish this better than any way else is by serving others. If a person is busy doing something for another person they won't be worrying about their own troubles, and that is the case I think, and is a very sound argument for having organization, of giving them the opportunity of doing something for each other.

I think loneliness is one of the first things with older people today, and I think this can easily be overcome by just bringing them together. I believe we can really accomplish something in what you are planning to do here.

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you.

You mention about the canasta and bridge playing. I remember at Cushing Memorial Hospital, outside of Boston, in our New England hearing I was talking about these men as they were playing bingo and I said, "You look like a good player," to one of these men who was in his eighties. He looked up and said, "Yes, and I am a good poker player, too." So he had diversified interests at least in card playing. I remember that well. [Applause.]

Senator RANDOLPH. Mrs. Julia Kerr, if you will take a moment to come to the microphone.

Mrs. KERR. I am Mrs. Walter Kerr, a retired social worker, now living at Foster Memorial Foundation in Huntington, a home for old ladies if you will, and I thought until Dr. McClung spoke I was going to be able to say that like the Duke of Windsor at long last I was going to be able to speak for the old.

Since living at Foster Memorial where I find the companionship of my contemporaries the most wonderful thing in the world I have come to realize how much my work in the senior citizens club could mean to women who live alone, or in the homes of children who are much younger, and where they are not happily situated.

But the changing times have brought about these things. Many white-collar workers are being transferred from city to city now. It isn't only the migratory workers. The older women, many of them at Foster are not able to go to new towns and put down roots, so they prefer to come to Foster to live. There we turn over to the foundation what we possess, half our social security, and can have piece of mind for the rest of our life.

The family unity is not what it was 50 years ago you can see from these changing times. The houses are some smaller, and they do not have room for older people in many cases, and the servant problem is one that has to be contended with, too.

SPECIAL HOUSING NEEDS

This movement of population has been hard for older people to understand. Society has scarcely begun to build the houses that are necessary. I have a friend who recently returned from Ireland after a 5 months' visit and she said in Ireland they have built little houses, a bedroom, bath, living room, and kitchen, all one story, where they do not have to climb the stairs, and I have been thinking we have always regarded Ireland as being a very poor country. If they are so poor and can do that can we do very much less, do you think?

Many of the homes, such as ours, are church homes. Ours is a private foundation established by Bradley Foster in memory of his wife, Emily Huntington. But many people regard the work of taking care of the aged as a part of their church duty. And many are being founded, too. We get that literature in our place all the time, and I find the same situation with them as with us. They have long waiting lists.

I don't think I have anything more to say, Senator Randolph, except to say you gentlemen who get around and contact the very rich, have them establish more foundations. It is a grand place to live, and my bridge game has improved in 2 years remarkedly.

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

This is very sparkling testimony and very helpful.

Mrs. Cox, do you have some citizens with you whom you would like to introduce?

Mrs. Cox. We did not plan any particular comments or remarks. I would like to introduce, though, those members of Senior Citizens of Charleston who are present:

Mrs. Ida Worley, Mrs. Ida Akers, and back here I see Miss Georgia Riggs and Mrs. Esta Hanna. [Applause.]

Are there others present who are on our roll? I don't want to miss you if you are here.

There are some other very well-known people in Charleston who could be members of our group here, who might have something to contribute. I know Dr. A. A. Shawkey is in our group, and he is a senior citizen of Charleston.

Dr. Shawkey, would you stand?