Mr. HANECY. What time did he leave Washington on that occasion?

Mr. NELSON. He left about the same time as before; about midnight or a little after, probably.

Mr. HANECY. When did he return?

Mr. NELSON. The following evening, about 8 o'clock or a litle after.

Mr. HANECY. Did he leave Washington at any other time between the 7th or 8th of February, 1911, and the 4th of March, 1911, except on the two occasions that you have mentioned?

Mr. NELSON. No, sir.

Mr. HANECY. Did you see him here in Washington daily on every day during that time except on the two occasions that you have just mentioned?

Mr. NELSON. I saw him every morning and every evening. I did not see him during the day.

Mr. HANECY. That is what I mean: some time during every day. Mr. NELSON. Yes.

Mr. HANECY. Did Mr. Hines go to Chicago at any time between the 7th or 8th of February and the 4th of March, 1911. except the time when he left on the afternoon of the 4th of March?

Mr. NELSON. He did not.

Mr. HANECY. Was there anybody else here with Mr. Hines during that time?

Mr. NELSON. Mrs. Hines was here from the morning of the 11th on.

Mr. HANECY. From the 11th of what?

Mr. NELSON. Of February.

Mr. HANECY. Until when?

Mr. NELSON. Until the 4th of March.

Mr. HANECY. Did Mrs. Hines, Mr. Hines, and you leave on the 3.40 train Saturday afternoon, the 4th of March, for Chicago? Mr. NELSON. We did; yes, sir.

Mr. HANECY. And you arrived there at 8.55 the next morning? Mr. NELSON. I presume so. It has been a long time.

Mr. HANECY. That is all.

Senator KERN. Do you testify to this from memory?

Mr. NELSON. Partly, and partly from my expense account.

Senator KERN. What part do you testify to from your memory? Mr. NELSON. The 16th. I think it was just about a week after the first trip. I got that from memory. The first one I have in my expense book.

Senator KERN. Did you go with Mr. Hines to New York?

Mr. NELSON. I did not, but I purchased the ticket or arranged for the purchase of his transportation here, and I made a note of it in my expense account at the time.

Mr. HANECY. All the rest of what you told you remember?
Mr. NELSON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. We will take a recess at this point until to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock, with the understanding that we will not have an afternoon session.

(Whereupon, at 5.15 o'clock p. m., a recess was taken until tomorrow, July 22, 1911, at 10 o'clock a. m.)

SATURDAY, JULY 22, 1911.

SENATE OFFICE BUILDING,
WASHINGTON, D. C.

The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m.

Present: Senators Dillingham (chairman), Gamble, Jones, Johnston, Fletcher, and Kern.

Present also: Mr. John H. Marble, Mr. John J. Healy; Mr. William J. Hynes, Mr. Elbridge Hanecy, and Mr. Edgar Farrar.

TESTIMONY OF C. R. NELSON-Resumed.

C. R. NELSON, a witness previously sworn, resumed the witness stand, and, being examined, testified as follows:

Mr. HEALY. Mr. Nelson, what time in February did you arrive in Washington?

Mr. NELSON. I arrived here on the 8th.

Mr. HEALY. How long did you remain here?

Mr. NELSON. I remained here until the 5th of March.

Mr. HEALY. Continuously?

Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. HEALY. You did not leave the city at any time?

Mr. NELSON. I did not; no, sir.

Mr. HEALY. Do you recall now how many times Mr. Hines left the city of Washington during that period?

Mr. NELSON. He left twice.

Mr. HEALY. When did he first leave?

Mr. NELSON. The first time he left was on the evening of the 10thmidnight of the 10th.

Mr. HEALY. March 10?

Mr. NELSON. February 10.

Mr. HEALY. You say you fixed that date by certain entries which you made in your expense account?

Mr. NELSON. Yes.

Mr. HEALY. You have no other recollection about the time of his departure at that time?

Mr. NELSON. I remember I went down to the depot with him in a taxi.

Mr. HEALY. When was the second time that he left Washington? Mr. NELSON. About a week later.

Mr. HEALY. You say, "About a week later." Would that be the 17th of February?

Mr. NELSON. Yes; the 17th, I should say.

Mr. HEALY. Was it on the 17th?

Mr. NELSON. Probably about that. I have no record of it.

Mr. HEALY. Might it have been on the 16th?

Mr. NELSON. It might have been on the evening of the 16th or the 17th, I do not remember which.

Mr. HEALY. You have no memorandum of any sort which enables you to fix the date of the second departure?

Mr. NELSON. No, sir.

Mr. HEALY. Did you accompany him to the depot on that occasion?

Mr. NELSON. I did; yes, sir.

Mr. HEALY. What time did he leave Washington?

Mr. NELSON. He left some few minutes after 12 o'clock, as I remember it.

Mr. HEALY. You remember that, do you?

Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir.

Senator KERN. About midnight?

Mr. NELSON. About midnight-a little after midnight; yes, sir. Senator KERN. When did he return?

Mr. NELSON. He returned the following evening.

Senator KERN. How do you fix the date of his return?

Mr. NELSON. I remember that Mrs. Hines and I went down to meet him the following evening.

Mr. HANECY. In a machine?

Mr. NELSON. In a taxi.

Senator KERN. Would that fix the date you went to meet him? Mr. NELSON. It would not fix the date. I remember that he was only gone one day. The following day we went down to meet him. Mr. HEALY. Might he not have been gone two or three days at that time?

Mr. NELSON. No, sir.

Mr. HEALY. Do you remember his leaving Washington during that period, at any other time than on these two occasions to which you have testified?

Mr. NELSON. I do not; no, sir.

Mr. HEALY. Do you not remember that he went to Philadelphia? Mr. NELSON. I do not; no, sir.

Mr. HEALY. You have no recollection about that?

Mr. NELSON. I have no recollection of that.

Mr. HEALY. Do you not recall that he went to Baltimore during that same period of time?

Mr. NELSON. No, sir.

Mr. HEALY. Would you say that he did not?

Mr. NELSON. If he did, he must have gone during the day and come back the same day. I saw him every morning and evening. Mr. HEALY. And you have no memorandum or entry of any sort which indicates his presence in Philadelphia or Baltimore during that period of time?

Mr. NELSON. No, sir.

Mr. HEALY. When Mr. Hines was in New York, along about the 17th of February, 1911, did you communicate with him in any way by letter or telegram?

Mr. NELSON. I think Mr. Hines called me up in the afternoon on the telephone and asked me if there was anything important or special.

Mr. HEALY. Did you forward any letters or telegrams to him during his absence from Washington?

Mr. NELSON. I do not think I did.

Mr. HEALY. Have you any recollection about it?

Mr. NELSON. No, sir.

Senator KERN. Are you sure he called up on the long-distance telephone from New York?

Mr. NELSON. I think he did.

Senator KERN. I am asking you whether you are sure.

Mr. NELSON. I am not sure of it; no, sir. I have no record of it.

Mr. HEALY. Did you forward any letters or telegrams to him at that time?

Mr. NELSON. No, sir.

Mr. HEALY. Did you receive any telegrams during his absence from the city of Washington?

Mr. NELSON. I may have; yes, sir.

Mr. HEALY. What is your recollection about it?

Mr. NELSON. He received telegrams practically every day. I would not remember any particular day whether a message was received

or not.

Mr. HEALY. What did you do with those telegrams?

Mr. NELSON. Unless they were very important I would hold them until he got back.

Mr. HEALY. How do you fix the date of Mr. Hines's second departure from Washington as being on the 17th of February, 1911? Mr. NELSON. I do not fix it as the 17th; the 16th or 17th, about a week after

Mr. HEALY. How do you fix those dates so that you are able to testify to the very time in February when he left?

Mr. NELSON. I remember it was just about a week after the first trip, and I spoke to Mrs. Hines about it, that he had been in New York shortly before, about the same time in the week.

Mr. HEALY. Might it have been 10 days or 5 days after his first departure?

Mr. NELSON. It would not have been 10 days. It might have been 5 or 6 days.

Mr. HEALY. So you do not testify that he left Washington on the 16th of February, positively, do you?

Mr. NELSON. I do not; no, sir.

Mr. HEALY. How do you fix the date of his return?

Mr. NELSON. I do not fix that by any memorandum. I remember that distinctly, that he was only gone about 20 hours.

Senator KERN. Twenty hours?

Mr. NELSON. Yes; less than 24.

Senator KERN. What did you do while he was absent?

Mr. NELSON. I was at the hotel with Mrs. Hines.

Senator KERN. All the time?

Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir.

Senator KERN. You did not go any place else, except the hotel? Mr. NELSON. I did not; no, sir.

Senator KERN. How did you pass away your time.

Mr. NELSON. I always had something to do.

Senator KERN. I ask you how you passed away your time?

Mr. NELSON. There was mail coming in and correspondence to be written and taking care of telephone calls.

Senator KERN. What kind of business did he have here that would Occupy you?

Mr. NELSON. He had his mail forwarded here to him every day, because he kept his correspondence up while he was away from Chicago.

Senator KERN. You have been in his employ how long?

Mr. NELSON. I have been in his personal employ since a year ago last May.

Senator KERN. Before that?

Mr. NELSON. Before that I was in the office of the Hines Lumber Co., in the sales department.

Senator KERN. Are you a salesman?

Mr. NELSON. Practically; yes.

Senator KERN. For how long?

Mr. NELSON. I have been in his employ for about 10 years.
Senator KERN. Since you were 16 years old?

Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir.

Senator KERN. You have been with Mr. Hines, then, constantly for 10 years?

Mr. NELSON. I have been in his employ; yes, sir.

Mr. HEALY. How long have you been in Washington on this present trip, Mr. Nelson?

Mr. NELSON. Since the morning of the 13th of July.

Mr. HEALY. Were you here shortly prior to the 13th of July?
Mr. NELSON. Yes.

Mr. HEALY. When did you come?

Mr. NELSON. On June 20 or 21.

Mr. HEALY. How long did you remain?

Mr. NELSON. I remained until the 2d of July

Mr. HEALY. Was Mr. Hines here at that time?

Mr. NELSON. Yes.

Mr. HEALY. Do you remember Mr. Hines leaving Washington during that period?

Mr. NELSON. He did not.

Mr. HEALY. Do you remember Mr. Hines leaving Washington since you arrived the last time?

Mr. NELSON. He did not.

Mr. HEALY. When were you here prior to June 20 for any considerable length of time?

Mr. NELSON. We were here a few days in May.

Mr. HEALY. A few days?

Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. HEALY. Was this period in 1911 the longest visit which you made to Washington?

Mr. NELSON. We were here in January, from the 7th until the 15th, and we returned to Chicago, and came back here, I think, the day following the 17th or 18th-and stayed unit the 4th of February. Mr. HEALY. Did Mr. Hines leave Washington on the occasion of those visits?

Mr. NELSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. HEALY. When?

Mr. NELSON. He left Washington for a day or two the latter part of January.

Mr. HEALY. Can you fix the date?

Mr. NELSON. Not exactly: no, sir.

Mr. HEALY. How closely can you fix the date?

Mr. NELSON. It was the last few days of January.

Mr. HEALY. The last two days?

Mr. NELSON. The last few days.

Mr. HEALY. The 29th or 30th?

Mr. NELSON. I think it was two or three days before that, perhaps the 25th or 26th.