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familiar, here in Washington, has done a magnificent job in loaning funds to young people to go through college, with a fine record of repayment. I would not want to interfere with the continuation of such an organization.

Mrs. GREEN. Unless I was absent when the testimony was given, I do not recall educators or responsible organizations who have objected to the scholarship program on the basis that it would put them out of business. I think that even if this is true, it would be valuable to the committee, and I wonder if you could furnish it to us.

Mr. KEATING. I think it is a minority of them. I do not think that it represents a majority viewpoint as regards the scholarship program. I did not mean to imply that. I meant that that contention has been made by some people in the field. It has been made personally to me by one educator who I am sure does not want to have his name used here. That contention has been made.

I do not mean to say that I endorse it.

Mrs. GREEN. You do not object, then, to the scholarship program on that basis?

Mr. KEATING. No, not on that basis; no, I do not.

Mrs. GREEN. I was thinking of the National Institutes of Health. We have gone into medical research, and it certainly has not in any way, it seems to me, detracted from the public support of cancer drives and heart drives, and so on.

Mr. KEATING. I think it may have actually stimulated the interest. Mrs. GREEN. That is right.

I am wondering if the scholarship program might not do the same. I am in agreement with a great deal of what you state, but I am a little bit concerned about what you say on page 2. I wonder if we sometimes generalize about the poor quality of education and take the exception and say that this is true of all of them.

I clipped out an article in either yesterday's or today's paper, but I left it home, about the number of honor students and Phi Beta Kappas and the ones in high schools in honor societies. They equal the number of students turned out in Russia in the graduate schools. So we have a very large number of students who are really doing an exceptional job.

The thing that concerns me, since sputnik especially, is the tendency to pick out one Johnny who can't read or who can't write, and they say that this reflects all of American education.

Mr. KEATING. I think there is much to what you say. I think we do hear extremist talk now particularly. I think they are apt to make the pendulum swing pretty far one way when they are caught up short in the other direction.

I certainly did not mean in any way to condemn our educational system, in any wholesale way.

What I think is the old and new approaches to education should go hand in hand. What I meant to imply as objecting to was the preoccupation with what might be called methodology in education today to the detriment of a solid grounding in fundamentals. I think, perhaps, there has been less emphasis placed upon fundamentals in education, as I would consider them, than should have been in the past, and too much emphasis on some of these sidelines that are good, but they are not as essential to turning out an educated person.

Mrs. GREEN. This would not be true, by and large, of education. These would be isolated cases?

Mr. KEATING. No; it would not be true by and large, but I think there is a fairly widespread tendency of stressing subjects and methods of teaching which I am inclined to take some issue with. However, I do it with a certain amount of diffidence because I am not an educator. My experience consists of 1 year of teaching school, so I do not consider that I am an expert on the subject. I taught Latin and Greek. You cannot even get Greek in most schools now, and Latin is on a declining basis. I can be forgiven if I still think that Latin and Greek are pretty good subjects.

Mrs. GREEN. I am in agreement with you.

I think our challenge is to make our schools better, but I personally am amazed at the tremendous job we have done over the last 20 years, especially with the tremendous number of students who are enrolled, the very low salaries we have been willing to pay the teachers, the professors in our schools, the penurious way in which we have treated education in general in not supplying the classrooms and equipment that we need.

So I take my hat off to the educators for the tremendously amazing job they have done, with the obstacles that have been put up in front of them.

Thank you very much, Mr. Keating.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Thank you, Mr. Keating. Your testimony has been very fine and very helpful, and we appreciate it.

Mr. KEATING. I am very happy to be here.

Mr. NICHOLSON. I am sorry I missed you.

Mr. KEATING. I will be very glad to furnish the gentleman from Massachusetts with a copy of my testimony, and will consider it a very high honor, bearing the respect which I do for him, if he would read it carefully.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Our next witness is Dr. Charles Schuller, presidentelect of the department of audiovisual instruction of the National Education Association. Dr. Schuller is a professor of education at Michigan State University, East Lansing, Mich.

Accompanying Dr. Schuller is Dr. Anna Hyer, executive secretary of the department of audiovisual instruction of the NEA. Also accompanying Dr. Schuller is Dr. Joseph B. Johnson, administrative assistant to the superintendent of the Arlington public schools, and Dr. Harold E. Wigren, board of directors, department of audiovisual instruction.

The members of the subcommittee have been provided with a copy of your statement, entitled "Need for Audiovisual Materials and Equipment.'

You may proceed, Dr. Schuller, in any manner that you see fit.

STATEMENT OF CHARLES F. SCHULLER, PRESIDENT-ELECT, DEPARTMENT OF AUDIOVISUAL INSTRUCTION, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, AND PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY, EAST LANSING, MICH.; ACCOMPANIED BY ANNA L. HYER, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF AUDIOVISUAL INSTRUCTION, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION; JOSEPH B. JOHNSON, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT TO THE SUPERINTENDENT, ARLINGTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS; AND DR. HAROLD E. WIGREN, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, DEPARTMENT OF AUDIOVISUAL INSTRUCTION, HOUSTON, TEX.

Mr. SCHULLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

With the committee's permission, I would like to dispense with the complete reading of this statement since you have it before you, and I would like to highlight a few of the important points and leave such time for discussion as you may wish.

Mr. ELLIOTT. The gentleman may proceed in any manner he desires, and without objection, following his oral statement, his complete statement will be made a part of the record.

Before you start, it has been called to my attention that we have as guests of the committee this morning a group of high-school students from Albert Lea, Minn. I want to say that this committee is very happy to have you boys and girls and your sponsor or teachers, whoever may accompany you.

I had the privilege last fall of driving through your town, and I think that country is mighty pretty.

Mr. SCHULLER. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee:

Our department of audiovisual instruction of the NEA is an organization of some 3,200 persons who are primarily county and State audiovisual directors, specialists in the audiovisual field in higher education institutions and in State departments of education.

Our interest, pure and simple, is to help improve the instruction going on in the public schools and in colleges and universities.

The term "audiovisual," as I am sure has been brought out in testimony here from time to time, refers to such modern teaching tools as motion pictures, television, film strips, slides, magnetic tape recordings, and the like.

Bill H. R. 10381, to which I shall now direct my remarks specifically, is basically a sound and highly commendable bill, in our judgment. Its contents clearly indicate the careful thought which has been given to some of the key problems in education and to some of the solutions or means by which Congress can assist in their solution. We are strongly in favor of this bill, as a whole.

I should like to direct my remarks specifically, however, to those sections of the bill which relate to instructional materials and facilities. The committee, I am sure, has been addressed many times with respect to the real advantages of audiovisual materials in instruction. We have, for example, at the present time a film service in a complete. course in physics which is being tested in some 130 schools in Wisconsin. Television has been used successfully in the teaching of mathematics and many other subjects. Magnetic tape recorders and visual materials are markedly successful in the modern foreign-language program.

If the committee does not happen to be familiar with it, I would strongly recommend the committee looking at a report on the modern language program at Wayne University and SHAPE, Supreme Headquarters in Europe; the copies of this report which we have brought along describe in detail the great benefits to be derived through the use of magnetic tape recorders and other devices.

Also, if the committee is interested, I have several research charts showing in some detail the fact that we know and have known for 30 years or more, the tremendous informational advantage to be gained from the use of motion pictures in instruction.

To make these tools of instruction available to schools, however, we have a basic problem in most schools of money. As an example, the cost of these films I have referred to in the physics series are $13,500 in black and white, and $25,000 in color. There are 162 of them. Because of the cost, much of the equipment and materials now available in such form is concentrated in the wealthier school districts in the larger cities and in some States.

It means often that children in one part of the country or one part of the State are denied the opportunity of the advantage of these materials, whereas some others can get it.

H. R. 10381 would authorize expenditure of funds for teaching facilities. In order to insure that audiovisual materials and equipment will be provided for, I would like to recommend that the definitive language in the bill, at page 7, line 24, and page 8, lines 1 to 3, be clarified to include specifically a mention of audiovisual materials and equipment.

I feel that to provide for the purchase of audiovisual materials, equipment, and facilities, we need rather substantial sums in the amount of $10 million on a matching quota basis for the first year, $20 million for the second, and $30 million for the third.

If the appropriations which are already indicated in the bill for science teaching facilities would not cover these expenditures, I would urge that the authorized appropriations be increased.

Many of the modern visual and auditory instructional devices require special building facilities. For example, conduits and antenna installations for television, electrical outlets and circuits for tape recorders, and room-darkening devices for the screening of projected visuals such as motion pictures.

H. R. 10381 includes in the term "acquisition" the "alteration of existing buildings and equipping new buildings and existing buildings." If the definition as worded on page 8, lines 4 to 7, would not be interpreted to cover such expenditures as cited above, I would like to recommend that the definition be expanded to do so. I do so simply because without, for example, light control in schools, it is a waste of time to talk about projection.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Do you, Dr. Schuller, have recommended language to accomplish the suggestion that you are making now?

Mr. SCHULLER. I have not written it in so many words, sir, but shall be glad to do so, if desired.

Mr. ELLIOTT. I would like to have it for the record.

Mr. SCHULLER. Yes.

(The information to be supplied follows:)

DEAR CONGRESSMAN ELLIOTT: I submit specific wording to accomplish the inclusion of alterations for audiovisual purposes in paragraph (c) on pages 7 and 8. I would suggest that paragraph (c) be made to read:

"(c) The term 'science teaching facilities' means specialized equipment, including audiovisual materials and equipment and printed materials other than textbooks, suitable for use in providing education in science, mathematics, engineering, or modern foreign language." (Italic words are additions.)

If the above words are added to the definition of "science teaching facilities," I believe that this will take care of paragraph (d) on page 8 which defines "acquisition" in terms of "science teaching facilities."

If, however, the committee does not decide upon the suggested additional wording in paragraph (c), I would then suggest that paragraph (d) be reworded as follows:

"(d) The term 'acquisition' used in conjunction with 'science teaching facilities' includes the alteration of existing buildings and equipping new buildings and existing buildings, whether or not altered. 'Alteration and equipping' inIcludes the provision of appropriate light control, electrical circuits, conduits, antennae installations and ventilation facilities for audiovisual purposes."

If you will bear with me on one other point not included in my testimony, I am increasingly concerned that higher institutions of learning where teachers are prepared should participate in the financial assistance to be provided under titles V and X. At present no more than 30 of some 1,000 institutions preparing teachers are adequately equipped or staffed so as to provide effective instructions in audiovisual materials and methods. This situation is due in substantial masure to the cost of necessary audiovisual materials and equipment.

Should the definition of "science teaching facilities" be amended in paragraph (c) on pages 7 and 8 as suggested above, part B of title V will provide the needed assistance and encouragement. If not, additional provision to that end should be made.

If needed and desired, I should be happy to propose specific wording for such an additional provision for the committee's consideration.

Sincerely,

CHAS. F. SCHULLER, President-elect, Department of Audiovisual Instruction, NEA. Mr. SCHULLER. The quality of education is even more dependent upon the quantity and quality of the teaching staff than on the teaching facilities. The chairman of the subcommittee is to be commended for including in H. R. 10381 appropriations for summer school and extension courses for teachers. Likewise, I would like to endorse the provision supporting science, mathematics, and modern foreign-language consultants.

Wise leadership is essential in keeping teachers informed with respect to current instructional methods, devices, and materials.

I would recommend, however, in light of the important role played by new media in education, that educational consultants in communications media be added in title IX. Audiovisual and television consultants have an important contribution to make to improved science, mathematics, and modern language instruction.

I might add it seems to me also in this connection that the word "demonstration" should be added to the title, "Research and Experimentation" now appearing in part A, title X, page 52, and in other appropriate places throughout part A, title X.

Many educators have expressed a need for regional demonstration centers where teachers could see the latest materials and techniques in use. Such demonstration centers would be invaluable as inservice education agencies for teachers, as well as serving as research centers.

I would like to endorse the request for the establishment of an institute for research and experimentation in new educational media and

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