time counselors and are not required to meet the same certification requirements as full-time counselors.

One may wonder how the colleges and universities can help to improve the quality of counseling through the graduate training in this area. At the present time the graduate programs are falling far short of meeting the needs for trained counselors. Some communities that have wished to have well-trained persons have had to leave positions vacant as long as 2 years in the attempt to find such. The conclusion seems to be inevitable that the improvement of counseling must depend in considerable measure upon taking steps to enlarge the number of counselors and to improve their quality through education.

III. IMPROVING COUNSELING AND GUIDANCE

A counselor at the elementary- or secondary-school level has to be a very skilled person. His background should be a bachelor's degree, generally about 2 years of teaching, and a year or more of education in the counseling profession.

From the information that has been given it seems apparent that an immediate source of counselors is the large number of counselors who are working part time and who tend to be the ones who are less qualified. Through intensive institutes it would be possible to bring them up to a better level of work rather quickly, and with provision for allotting more of their time to the actual counseling process, we would add conisderably to the Nation's current supply of well-educated professional counselors in the schools.

It would be unfortunate to leave this discussion of quantity and quality without some attention to the elementary school.

There appears to be some evidence that we begin to lose academically talented students along in the elementary grades. We do not lose them physically but they are lost so far as their future development in academic programs in high schools and continuance to college are concerned. The number of counselors in the elementary schools is pitifully small. Estimates provided by elementaryand secondary-school principals rather recently, however, indicate that they would like to have many more counselors at the elementary-school level and that they would anticipate the largest proportionate increase in counselors to occur at this level in the future. It is at the elementary-school level that counselors with the aid of tests and other data and by working with teachers must be instrumental in identifying students of great promise. This must be done at an early date. With proper provision for testing, counseling, and with the prospects of scholarship aid, it is possible for counselors to help in identifying and motivating students who otherwise would be lost to the academic stream of education.

IV. PROPOSALS FOR NATIONAL ACTION

Education in this Nation needs a tremendous impetus, and it needs it The bills pending before this committee, namely H. R. 10278 and H. R. 10381, can provide the impetus.

now.

The association that I represent wishes to go on record as favoring those provisions by which it will be possible to increase the number of counselors in the elementary and secondary schools, to educate them suitably for their work, to provide the testing facilities that are necessary for a good program of guidance, and to furnish scholarships that are essential for the development of those academically gifted students who are not able to support themselves in higher education.

May I mention several items specifically.

1. The need for more counselors and for the training of counselors is so pressing that institutes and regular-session graduate education should be provided very soon. The suggested $6 million for each of 6 years would be a tremendous help.

2. Provision for enlarging the number of trained counselors in local schools, and in rural schools, in elementary as well as secondary schools, is necessary. This is understood to mean also the improvement of supervisory services at the State level.

3. Testing facilities should be made available for use at all levels of education, but at the point of use, namely the local school.

4. Scholarships for undergraduates should be general scholarships open to all qualified students who need the assistance. The committee has the knowledge to determine the exact number. I believe that it should be more than 10,000.

This Nation is facing a serious challenge. The solution can be found through education. I visit schools and colleges in many parts of the country. I know that with the leadership that can be provided by the Congress, the local schools will respond. As one school person in the Midwest said recently, "We can educate boys and girls, and do it well. We do need the stimulation that Federal legislation can give."

The part of the legislation pertaining to guidance, counseling, testing, and scholarships will help the education of boys and girls-we know that good programs of guidance result in fewer dropouts, in better educational planning, in more students entering college and in entering the programs for which they are best suited-in short, good guidance is necessary for the conservation and development of the Nation's human resources.

(The following document was submitted by the witness:)

Counselors serving in secondary schools

NOTE. These data were furnished by State guidance supervisors. The figures for most States are the best estimates that could be made. The reader is cautioned that they are estimates, with a few exceptions.

Mr. ELLIOTT. I recognize the gentleman from West Virginia, Mr. Bailey.

Mr. BAILEY. What percentage of the colleges today have available courses in counseling?

Mr. HITCHCOCK. I think the figure is 233 of colleges and universities providing training to the master's level, and I think about one-third or a little less provide training up to the doctorial point.

Mr. BAILEY. Would you suggest in this matter of scholarships that we try to channel some of the students from our high schools into colleges to take those courses in counseling, with the thought we could bring them back to the school systems and improve the situation?

Mr. HITCHCOCK. The training of a counselor is likely to go in this way: That he will obtain a bachelor's degree in whatever his field of specialization is going to be. It is likely to be in psychology or something like that, or strictly a teaching field, and he will go into teaching for a couple of years and then take his master's degree in the counseling field. So it is most likely to be at the graduate level where professional counselors are trained, after the bachelor's work has been finished and possibly after the person has been out working in education for a time.

So I would encourage the development through the undergraduate level of persons in accordance with their talents and interests, whether it be in science or education or what. Of course I would like to encourage a lot of good people to go into education.

Mr. BAILEY. Well, there is some aim in the legislation, I believe, to consider the possibility of trying to get people into this field. Do not let me take your time. Go right ahead.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. That was very helpful, sir.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Let me interrupt to ask a question here too, Doctor. What part do the various testing programs play in the total guidance service in a high school that has a good system of testing and guidance?

Mr. HITCHCOCK. A very important part, Mr. Chairman. There should be a good testing program in the schools, and I would like to add it really should be started down the ladder in the elementary schools, because we have the situation where we have boys and girls who are lost, not physically but academically, in the elementary schools because we have not identified them early enough, and testing is really a tremendously important help on that.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Testing is under fire these days, as you well know, and I would like to have your comments on that.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. Well, sir, I think that one reason it might be under fire is that we should not expect from testing a lot of things that it was never intended to do, and we would not want our boys and girls at any level of education to have their future careers dictated by the fact that they made X score on such a testing. We do not live in that kind of a country, but test scores on interest, aptitude, mental ability, and achievement can be very helpful to a student and his parents in the hands of a good counselor and a good teacher in helping him to see himself.

Mr. Chairman, I have seen some youngsters who were simply amazed to find, actually, what their level of ability was, and this is the kind of thing that suggests identifying talent and motivating students.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Do you recommend, Doctor, that a Federal-aid act include a specific requirement for a testing program as in H. R. 10278, or a more general grant to the States to improve their public school guidance and counseling service as in H. R. 10381, or do you care to comment on that?

Mr. HITCHCOCK. Well, it is a little difficult to comment on it, but only for the reason that a good State program that envisages all this development of education is going to include testing within the guidance area, I am very sure. I cannot see that any State would develop a good program without it. Of course, I think that it is a necessary part of the thing, and so that is why I found it a little difficult to separate the two out.

Mr. ELLIOTT. If you have a good counseling program and a good guidance program, you must necessarily have a testing program; is that correct?

Mr. HITCHCOCK. Well, it is most likely to be; yes, sir.

Mr. ELLIOTT. We read that tests have been improved a great deal in recent years. Is that correct, in your judgment?

Mr. HITCHCOCK. Yes, sir; I am sure that that is correct. As in other fields of knowledge, we have advanced there, and the type of testing has even changed somewhat. We now tend to give batteries of tests that will give a student, his parents, and teacher a better picture of him-not a stereotyped picture, but a picture that can be interpreted and made some sense out of.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Now, Doctor, I have used up a great deal of your time and, according to my watch, we have 2 minutes left.

I am going to recognize the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Nicholson, for 1 of those minutes, and the gentleman from New Jersey for the other.

Mr. NICHOLSON. Mr. Chairman, I have no questions.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman. I think the witness has given excellent testimony, and I do not want to impose upon the committee's time.

Mr. ELLIOTT. We had four witnesses scheduled. The House goes into session at 11 o'clock this morning, and we had to divide the time equally between the witnesses.

You have this additional 12 minutes, Mr. Hitchcock, and you can use it yourself if you so desire.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. Well, Mr. Chairman, I see the minute is right now, but I would just like to say, in conclusion, that we would like very much to support this legislation.

I have visited schools and colleges all over the country, and I am sure that their support for the steps that this Congress will take to provide this kind of thing that will envisage counseling testing, the training of counselors to improve the quantity and quality of the student, and a good scholarship program based upon broad, generalpurpose scholarships.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Thank you very much, Doctor.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. I thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. PERKINS. I want to compliment the gentleman. Personally, I have not heard all of your statement, but I feel that you have made a splendid statement for the benefit of the committee.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. Thank you very much. I appreciate that, sir. Mr. ELLIOTT. Mr. Hitchcock's statement will be made a part of the record, together with the statistics that he furnished us.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Our next witness is Mr. Reuben Johnson, of the National Farmers Union.

Mr. Johnson, we have a statement which has been furnished each member of the committee by you, and in accordance with our agree

ment, which I admit is a very arbitrary one, but which I can do nothing about, if you can confine yourself to 15 minutes, it would be very helpful.

STATEMENT OF REUBEN JOHNSON, NATIONAL FARMERS UNION

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, I do not believe it will take me that long to make the statement I have in mind.

I would like to say, first, that the Farmers Union people have appeared at your field hearings in South Dakota and Salt Lake City, I believe, and have indicated generally support for the scholarship approach to getting at some of the problems we have in education.

Today I want to confine my remarks to some of the background of the Farmers Union interest in education and to specifically endorse some of the bills that are before this subcommittee.

The president of the Farmers Union, Jim Patton, appointed a commission on school support in rural areas in 1955. The commission, after several meetings and a long study of rural education needs, released a report entitled "Remedies and Resources for Rural Schools." This report has had wide distribution among educators, farm leaders, and farm families. Its emphasis is on a long-range program of Federal assistance for improving educational offerings, for increasing the number of qualified teachers, for more and better physical facilities and equipment, for more and better transportation, for special programs for exceptional children, gifted and retarded, for improved and expanded technical and vocational training, including mathematics and science, for expansion of the school lunch and school milk programs, and for a scholarship and scholarship loan program for needy students who want a college education.

Many of the recommendations of the Farmers Union Education Commission are reflected in bills introduced this year. We have made progress. The flood of bills on education are concrete evidence that the need has been recognized. These bills provide many different proposals out of which the committee must draft a bill agreeable to the majority of the Committee on Education and Labor and of the House if there is to be any bill on this side of the Congress.

Farmers Union strongly supports the enactment of a bill this year to strengthen education. We believe that there is strong congressional sentiment for an education bill-strong enough to secure passage. In this connection, Mr. Chairman, we do not feel that full utilization of our human resources can be achieved through a program such as has been proposed by the administration.

We are aware that with so many proposals to aid education in bill form, the work of the committee is not easy. But we in Farmers Union assure you that, as we have confidence in the democratic processes under which the laws of this Nation evolve, we have confidence in the committee being able to draft an education bill which will draw support from many organizations and groups.

We are reluctant to endorse specific proposals. There are many bills which, either separately or in combination, would be acceptable. However, in the interest of furthering agreement on specific proposals, we support the combination of H. R. 10381 and S. 10763. This would combine your national defense education bill with Congressman Metcalf's teachers' salary and construction bill.