not only to shift the burden of education partly from the shoulders of the States onto the Federal Government, where I believe it belongs at this time, but also to shift the burden of bearing the cost of education from the real estate owner, the home owner and the farm owner, where it rests most heavily today, to all taxpayers. The money would come out of the income tax, the excise tax, and so on, and that can only come through the Federal Government under direct appropriation. That means that New York would receive ultimately under the terms of this bill-which may be somewhat utopian, but it seems to me to be a good objective-New York would receive some $95,000,000 annually, but New York would have to pay her 21 percent of the entire cost, just as she would under any other plan. It would mean that the poorer States would get enough so that it would make it easier for them to reach the minimum requirements. It also means that the wealthier States, such as California, New York, and New Jersey, would have to pay more, but they would get part of it back, and that part that they get back would be used either in bettering their schools still further, or relieving the burden on other taxpayers of their States in furnishing money for the State support of the schools. So I think, if the figures are analyzed, we will find that it amounts to about the same burden on the wealthier States, and perhaps greater benefit to the poorer States.

Senator ELLENDER. What I want to do is to make it possible to enact legislation at this session of Congress, and my fear is that if you increase it much more than what is provided in S. 472, $150,000,000 for the first year, and make it so that a State like New York would $95,000,000, that would mean an appropriation of a quarter of a billion dollars.

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Senator AIKEN. Taking the burden off of the States and putting it onto the Federal Government, I can see where some votes would be lost from economy-minded people who would object to the larger appropriation that would be necessary. I see where some votes would be gained from the 23 States that would otherwise not benefit from the program. I understand that at the present time, with the rising income in certain States, 25 States would benefit from the formula which is proposed in S. 472, and under S. 199 I think that 32 States would get back more money than they pay in, but all would get back some money.

Dr. Zook. I quite agree that whatever the Federal Government can do toward relieving the local real estate tax situation is altogether a desirable thing to do, but I would like especially to emphasize this fact: I just don't see how we can logically pass a bill here which applies the benefits of which apply to only 25 or 30 of the States, and do something different in the matter of Federal aid with respect to every other piece of legislation that comes up here before Congress, whether it be health or whatnot. If we are going over to this new formula, then we ought to go over to it in all of the other pieces of legislation. That seems to me to be extremely important. Otherwise we continue the chaos that we have had with respect to this matter of Federal aid.

Senator HILL. Do you agree, Doctor, that whatever may be the formula of course, we want the best formula, both from the standpoint of doing the job we seek to do, and also from the standpoint of passing legislation--do you agree that, after all, it is paramount to

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get a Federal aid bill passed and have the Federal Government recognize and accept the responsibility for the equalization of educational opportunities?

Dr. Zook. That is certainly paramount at the present time.
Senator HILL. Above everything else, isn't it?

Mr. Zook. Well, I don't see why we cannot pass one that we can all regard as defensible.

Senator HILL. I think we want to do everything we can to make it defensible. Of course, we know the history of legislation, that no great major piece of legislation has ever been passed, so far as I can recall, that does not require some amendment, some adjustment, in time.

Senator AIKEN. I think it is entirely possible to get together on the method by which this money shall be allocated to the States, and in such a way that we will not scare people who are economically minded, and at the same time get the votes that will be necessary to enact the legislation. I would like to remind the Senator that under the direct appropriation plan Alabama pays 0.65 percent of the Federal income, and Alabama would receive 2.64 percent of the Federal funds for education. Louisiana pays 0.82 percent of the Federal income, and would receive 1.81 percent, or two and a half times the rate that she pays in, for educational purposes.

Senator HILL. You made some comments a few minutes ago about viewpoint. I must admit that from my viewpoint that sounds very persuasive. [Laughter.]

Senator AIKEN. I am appealing to the viewpoint of the Senators from the twenty-odd States that would otherwise get nothing at all. Senator SMITH. It works both ways, because when we consider the over-all tax budget, how much shall be allocated to education and how much to other things, we have to consider the appropriation for all of them.

Dr. Zook. Of course, may I say, Senator, from my viewpoint education is an extremely important matter, and it seems to me that if the Federal Government is going to admit that there is a national interest in education, we ought not to make the sum so small as to be negligible. Of course, personally I have already said to you gentlemen that I think as much as a billion dollars a year ought to be expended through the general appropriation and upon buildings for some time to come.

Senator AIKEN. I have thought that if the Federal Government paid as much as a third of the total cost of elementary and secondary education in this country, it would be no more than its share, in view of the fact that population shifts from State to State, and in view of the fact, as you have so well pointed out this morning, that the Federal Government now receives 50 times as much of the taxpayers' money in the form of income tax as the States do.

Dr. Zooк. That is right. I will just read briefly then the other three paragraphs on page 8 of my prepared statement. Four hundred and twenty-five representatives, as against 65, voted in favor of requiring that Federal funds in aid of education be distributed equitably for the benefit of minority races in States where separate school systems are maintained. That was the vote. I don't see how it could have been otherwise.

Four hundred and twenty-three representatives, as against 76, voted in favor of Federal funds for the construction of buildings for educational use. That, Senator, seems to me to be the best information that we have with respect to this other bill which will be under discussion at a later time.

And, finally, with the present provisions of the GI bill evidently in mind, the representatives of the organizations and of the educational institutions, both public and private, voted heavily, 452 to 65, in favor of a national system of scholarships available for students in all types of colleges and universities.

I would simply like to say that the educational provisions of the GI bill have been unbelievably successful. If you had asked me about that 2 years ago I would not have believed it would have been possible to have had the success that we have had. And here again may I point out that the representatives of the publicly controlled institutions, as well as the representatives of the privately controlled institutions, are willing and anxious to see aid of that kind go to deserving students who attend either a public or private institution. And that again seems to me to be one of the finest developments that we have had in unanimity of opinion between those two types of institutions in recent years.

I think that is all I have to say, gentlemen.

Senator ELLENDER. Dr. Zook, have you a list of the members of the council, the various institutions for which you are speaking in this matter?

Dr. Zook. Yes, sir.

Senator ELLENDER. Will you give that for the record?

Dr. Zook. I will be glad to do so. I do not have a copy of it here. Senator ELLENDER. For the record, will you describe to us these various memberships? I understand you have constituent members. Dr. Zook. Constituent members consist of members of organizations that are interested in higher education on the one hand, and elementary and secondary education on the other. For example, the Association of American Colleges, the National Association of State Universities, the American Association of Land Grant Colleges, the Catholic Educational Associations, the National Education Association, the National Association of Secondary School Principals, the American Association of School Administration, and the American Association of Teachers Colleges.

I think it would be fair for me to say, Senator, that practically every important organization in the field of education belongs to the American Council on Education. For the most part, the statements of opinion which I present to Congress from time to time, come from committees that are representative of all these various interests.

Senator ELLENDER. I would like to have you explain the difference between a constituent member, an associate member and an institutional member. My reason for making this request is that if I understand you correctly there was voting done by these various constituents, and there seems to have been some variances. That is why I am asking if you will put into the record the difference between these various memberships. As I recall, you said you had 65 constituent members, 56 associate members, and 840 institutional members.

Dr. Zook. That is right. The associate members do not vote, so I have not, of course, counted them anywhere. The institutional members consist of the colleges and universities, and of an increasing number of school systems, the public school system of Philadelphia, New York City, Pittsburgh, and so on.

Senator ELLENDER. Those are public and private?

Dr. Zook. Public and private school systems. The proportion of institutional members which should be cataloged as privately controlled institutions, as against publicly controlled, is somewhat larger because of the number of colleges and universities being more largely privately controlled.

Senator ELLENDER. Is the council maintained by subscriptions? Dr. Zook. It is maintained almost entirely by dues from the members.

Senator ELLENDER. Thank you, Doctor.

Senator THOMAS. May I indulge in a bit of history and prophecy. I want to make this point, and before I make the point I will give a little bit of history. The soldier education bill, which was carried in the GI bill of rights, was a bill which was written in this committee. No hearings were held on it at all, but the GI bill of rights people accepted the whole bill. The bill was passed out unanimously by our committee, but in that bill as it went out was a change in the philosophy of education in our country, and that is what I think can be done here now. We did not pass that bill originally on the basis of taking care of the individual soldier boy. We passed it because America decided it could not risk the loss of leadership in a whole generation. That bill accepted the thesis that America needed education in order to survive.

As the bill went out it was changed in conference somewhat, but before the Senate bill was passed I was asked how many students might respond and take advantage of this bill, and I said probably as many as 900,000, which seemed to me to be a great number and that I was probably too high. I was laughed out of court, but already something like 1,300,000 have responded, and the end is not yet. Now, I am sure that once we start Federal aid in this country there will be another recognition on the part of the whole Nation of the value of education, and that we will simply be surprised at the demands for enlargement of our high schools, our secondary schools, our colleges and our universities, as a result of this upping in the grade. And it is something, incidentally, that must be done if we are to maintain the standards that we have now, with the great dollar wealth that we carry throughout our country.

I cannot help but say, Mr. Chairman-you will have to forgive me -but I want Dr. Zook to say that he rather agrees with my prophecy that if once we start this we will be as much surprised over it as we were over the soldier education bill. In the wake of it will come the overcoming of those needs that we have. We need doctors, we need nurses, we need laboratory assistants, we need scientists, and once the scholarship notion is developed in our country, as it will be under the McCarran bill, America will make a great advance in meeting these needs.

Dr. Zook. Senator, you remind me of something. I happen to be the chairman of the President's Advisory Committee on Higher Education, which has had a number of meetings, and which is expected

to issue a report at some time in the rather early future. Now, the amount of higher education, especially at junior college level, which seems to be necessary in the early future, is something which surprises us all in the commission, and which I am sure we have got to take care of at some time in the early future. So I hope to have an opportunity not very long hence to appear before you with respect to the needs that arise, more particularly out of the field of higher education. Senator HILL. In that connection, Doctor, the more I have thought about the subject of Federal control and those who oppose Federal aid—right away, of course, that has been the main argument, Federal control-the more it seems to me when we analyze it, that any real fear, any bona fide fear of Federal control stems out of really a lack of faith in our people, in the people themselves, because certainly the whole history of our country shows that in the final analysis the people determine what our policies are, what our programs are, and what our Government is. I wish you would think about that a little bit, and the next time you come down talk to us a little in terms of confidence in the people, and show that there need be no fear of Federal control.

Dr. Zook. I think that for practical purposes that means we ought to be able to trust the Federal Government as well as the State and local governments, and I assure you that I do.

Senator HILL. That is right. Because, after all, who is the Government? It is the people.

Senator SMITH. Senator Hill seems to be endorsing the Jeffersonian rather than the Hamiltonian doctrine now.

Senator HILL. Well, Dr. Zook told us about Newton D. Baker spending the night reading Thomas Jefferson.

Senator SMITH. I would like to call the attention of the Senator from Alabama to the fact that I recently put into the record a letter from the commissioner of the university in my State, describing Jefferson's papers, and a fragment of the Declaration of Independence that had just been discovered, which was a very interesting addition to Jeffersonia. I am very much in sympathy with Jefferson's position. Dr. Zook. I will leave the break-down of this ballot for you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator AIKEN. The material will be put in the record, and I know that the committee, from their actions, have evidenced very great interest in your testimony. You brought out some points which heretofore had not been placed before the committee, and we appreciate that fact very much.

Dr. Zook. Thank you, Senator.

(Dr. Zook submitted the following brief:)

STATEMENT OF GEORGE F. ZOOK, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION, APRIL 23, 1947

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am here as a representative of the American Council on Education. The American Council on Education is, as perhaps you know, our attempt in the field of education to federate the activities of the very numerous educational associations and institutions in their consideration of major problems in education. We carry on our work through extensive studies and conferences.

At the present time, the council consists of 65 constituent members, 56 associate members, and 840 institutional members, composed of higher educational institutions and school systems, both public and private.

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