Q. That he made a physical offer? A. No, sir; never.

Q. Did he at any time show you an envelope or pocketbook in which he had money? A. No, sir.

Q. Did he ever at any time say that he had the money there ready to give to you? A. Not to me; no sir.

Q. At any of these interviews with Intemann, did you make the appointment to meet him? A. Never, sir.

Q. But he on every occasion made the appointment? A. Mr. Intemann.

Q. Was there any arrangement between you and Mr. Levings that you should meet Mr. Intemann at any particular place? A. No, sir.

Q. Did you and Dr. Levings ever go to any place to receive money from Mr. Intemann?

Mr. Boardman.— Levings went there alone, as we claim, as the testimony was that the money was to be paid at that dinner at the Sinclair House, and only one appeared, and the other man had a black eye.

Q. Now, has it happened to you at any time this last winter to have any altercation or difficulty on the street? A. No, sir.

Q. On Broadway or elsewhere? A. No, sir.

Q. Have you at any time had what is called a "black eye?" A. No, sir.

Q. Have you, or anybody, to your knowledge, ever spoken of that to any of the men who made affidavits, or who have been witnesses to-day? A. As far as appeared in the affidavit of Mr. Intemann I know —

Q. I say has anybody spoken from your side of any such case? A. No, sir.

Q. This case of conjunctivitis that you speak of, what is it? A. The inflammation of the lining membrane of the eye-lids.

Q. Is it a common disease? A. Yes, sir; quite common in cold weather.

Q. Did you attend the charity ball?

Mr. Boardman.— It was not the charity ball; it was the French ball.

Q. Was there any occasion last winter when there was a discoloration on the outside of your eye? A. No, sir; none whatever.

Q. It was an inflammation? A. Entirely confined to the conjunctiva.

Q. Did you attend the French ball last year? A. I did not; no, sir.

Q. This year? A. No, sir.

Q. Was the French ball directly or indirectly mentioned in any conversation you had with Intemann? A. No, sir; never.

Q. Did you ever say to Intemann in words or in substance, or say in any interview where he was present, that you wanted money to get a ticket for the French ball? , A. No, sir.

Mr. Boardman.— The language was not used to get a ticket for the French ball.

Q. As a fact, I understand you did not go to the French ball? A. I did not.

Q. Did you speak of the French ball in connection with money from anybody? A. I did not hear the French ball mentioned at all, sir, until this moment.

Q. Did you at any time, in any conversation at which Mr. Intemann was present this last winter, say in words or in substance that you wanted some money and some sucker to provide it? A. No, sir; I never did.

Q. Did you ever use such a phrase to your knowledge? A. No, sir; I do not remember; it is not one that is familiar to me, at any rate; I am not aware that I ever did.

By Mr. Boardman:

Q. You never heard that phrase before in your life? A. Yes, sir; I have.

Q. Did you ever hear of the French ball? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you ever go? A. I have, sir.

Q. You never heard any one spoken of as a "sucker?" A. Yes, sir; I have.

Q. You do not know what it means? A. No; I do not, frankly.

Q. The milk inspection takes place about 2 o'clock in the morning, does it not? A. All the way from 9 o'clock in the morning until 9 o'clock the next morning.

Q. That naturally grows out of the French ball, doesn't it? A. I do not see the relation.

Senator Fassett.—"We will strike that out.

Q. You never had anything to do with Macomber, did you, except in connection with the performance of your duty as an inspector? A. What do you mean?

Q. No social relations with him? A. None whatever.

Q. No friendly relations? A. None whatever.

Q. Did not graduate from the same medical college? A. No, sir.

Q. You have nothing to do with him except in a professional way? A. No, sir.

Q. Except in the performance of your duty as an inspector? A. Yes, air.

[.Senate, No. 80.] 116

Q. How far was this liquor store from the place where you first saw Maconiber? A. Well, his place is between Tenth and Eleventh streets, and this liquor store is on the corner of Fourteenth street, a distance of three and a half blocks.

Q. You did not see any impropriety in your going up there to this liquor store with him? A. I did not, because I could not imagine — I did not know exactly what he had to suggest.

Q. You do not see any impropriety in you, as an inspector, going around with all the milk dealers there are in New York to liquor stores and getting into back rooms every day, do you? A. I do, decidedly.

Q. Was it improper for you to go with Macomber to this particular liquor store? A. Yes; I think, strictly speaking, it was.

Q. What duty in connection with your departmental functions did you suppose you were going to perform in that liquor store; did you suppose there was any milk there to be inspected? A. No, sir; but Mr. Macomber had something important to disclose.

Q. What did you suppose he had to disclose? A. I supposed it was something in reference to some of his neighbors who were keeping skimmed milk.

Q. You were not trying to catch him in an attempted bribery? A. No attempt to catch anybody.

Q. You were not trying to put up a job on Macomber, were you? A. No, sir.

Q. When he wanted you to come up to the liquor store on the corner of Fourteenth street, you were not, of course, in the performance of your duties as a milk inspector? A. Mr. Macomber did not tell us where he wanted us to go.

Q. He said: "Let us go to the liquor store?" A. No, sir; he said: "I have got something very important to state to you," and he led the way.

Q. He led it into the liquor store? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Into the back room? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You thought he wanted to talk to you about something connected with the department? A. I did; yes, sir.

Q. Now, in everything you have done in this matter, you have acted under instructions? A. With the exception of this time we speak of now.

Q. When you went to this liquor store, you were not? A. No, sir.

Q. But when you went to the other liquor stores you were acting under instructions all the time? A. Yes, sir.

Q. If a man attempts to bribe you, you do not know enough, I sup_ pose, to deal with him until you have seen Dr. Martin and had instruo tions? A. I think I do now.

Q. You have found out? A. Yes, sir.

Q You had no instructions on the first night when you were in the first liquor store, the Golden Swan, you had no instructions from Martin? A. No, sir.

Q. You and Levings did not know what to do at all? A. No, sir.

Q. "When the man said to you: "I will give you $300," you were dumb as an oyster, were you not? A. I was, because I was amazed that the proposition should come from a representative of the company knowing the reputation that the company had, and the difficulties the department had with them, and it struck me as being very remarkable.

Q. Wouldn't it be most natural to expect a proposition of that kind from that kind of a company? ' A. Well, it would be a pretty daring thing to do, in view of the fact that we had had cases against them constantly and were liable to inspect them at any time.

Q. You had no instructions from Martin that night? A. No, sir.

Q. Then you were obliged to act upon your own judgment? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the action you did take upon that occasion was to let this man talk to you for some twenty minutes about this thing? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You never, nor did Mr. Levings, by word or look, intimate that, you disapproved at all of this proposition to pay you this money, that is true, is it not? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Just as I state it? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You left that man without having received any instructions from Martin, under the impression that you and Levings were perfectly willing to take his money; that is so, is it not? A. Yes, sir; we neither affirmed nor disaffirmed it. 1

Q. You left him under that impression? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You let him go away from you that night — A. I do not know what his impressions were, of course.

Q. You did it purposely, did you not? A. Well, we simply did not know what to say; we knew it to be a pretty serious matter if we did agree to such a proposition, and it was a rather startling suggestion, and we were both nonplussed, neither having an opportunity to consult with the other.

Q. You did not know what to do when a man attempted to bribe you, and so you talked with him about the bribe, and fixed the amount and the length of time for which the protection was going to be granted? A. That was going to be done by the other party.

Q. The amount was fixed, wasn't it? A. Yes, sir.

Q. The duration of time during which the parties were to be protected— three months? A. Yes, sir; that was the proposition he made.

Q. The duration of time; and bow many milk inspectors were there altogether? A. Seven of them.

Q. You and Mr. Levings had complete jurisdiction, so far as this case was concerned? A. As far as that district was concerned.

Q. Where is that district? A. It extends from Sixty-third street to the Battery, and from Fifth avenue down Broadway to Catherine street and the North river.

Q. If you chose — if you and Dr. Levings were bad enough to sell out the interest of the public for money, and these people paid you enough so that you were satisfied, you could make a bargain with them which could secure them protection? A. No, sir; we could not absolutely.

Q. Why? A. Because there is no possibility of the thing being done and carried out without its being detected.

Q. Are there inspectors who inspect your work? A. Yes, sir; there is liable to be; there are inspectors liable to be sent into our department at any time.

Senator Fassett.— You might ask the witness how much protection he could give?

The Witness.— We could give absolutely none.

By Senator Fassett: <

Q. You two gentlemen are detailed to cover that whole territory? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there any one detailed whose business it is to go to these establishments every day after you? A. Not to check us off; no, sir.

Q. There is some one else detailed to follow you at his own suggestion? A. At Mr. Martin's suggestion; yes, sir,

Q. In the absence of any change or special direction, Mr. Martin having confidence in you, it depends upon your report whether any complaints are lodged against you? A Yes, sir.

Q. So that in your discretion there lies the possibility of immunity if you were inclined to be clever? A. Well, we would have to go further than that; we would have to get Martin in collusion.

Mr. Prentice.— There is Dr. Allen besides.

The Witness.— It was Dr. Allen formerly, it is not now.

Q. Mr. Boardman wanted to find out how much time and security your discretion if exercised cleverly would cover? A. I think it would cover very little, I do not see now how such a thing could be done; of course, it is possible, but the way has never been paved for me to see it; it never suggested itself to me.