completely on the veracity of such information. While I am not questioning the honesty of the individuals involved, their background certainly is more attuned to the various needs of the industry and not to that of the consumer.

The Federal Power Commission, it appears, is being run these days by Commissioner Rush Moody. Mr. Moody comes from the law firm of Stubman, McCrae in Midland, Tex. He joined that law firm after leaving another firm in TexasBaker and Botts.

Mr. Moody has been a vociferous advocate of deregulation of natural gas. Both of the law firms that he associated with when practicing law in Texas have represented powerful oil and gas interests. The General Counsel of the FPC until last year was R. Gordon Gooch, who also came from the law firm of Baker and Botts. One of his deputy counsels was Mr. Stephen Wakefield, also from Baker and Botts, who has since taken over the job as Deputy Secretary for Minerals and Natural Resources in the Department of Interior.

Another assistant of Mr. Gooch's, Frank Allen, who is now the acting head of the Bureau of Natural Gas. Mr. Allen represented the Potomac Electric Power Co. as an attorney. Mr. Allen replaced Tom Joyce who is currently with a consulting firm in Rockville, Md. This firm has on its board of directors Mr. Arleigh Burke, who I will talk about later as one who apparently serves on the board of more than one oil and gas company.

The Department of the Interior appears to have a similar type of arrangement. Mr. Wakefield, who I mentioned, is now the Assistant Secretary for Mineral Resources. His Director of the Office of Oil and Gas is Mr. Duke Ligon, who served with Continental Oil Co. prior to joining the Federal Government. The man who appears to be one of the chief theoreticians behind the Government's energy policy is Mr. Ken Lay. Mr. Lay, as we know, worked for FPC Commissioner Pinkney Walker after serving 3 years with the EXXON Corp.

This past weekend we have seen yet another shift in the leadership of the administration's energy policy. John Love has gone. William Simon now appears to be in charge. I know very little about Mr. Simon or his deputy, Mr. Sawhill. It is my hope that this is the last shuffle in leadership on this subject. In addition to the one-sided representation that has existed in many cases, the "ad hocism" that has been controlling our Government's actions has, in my opinion, only exacerbated the current crisis.

Also serving in a policymaking position is Mr. John B. Rigg, who is Deputy Assistant Secretary for Minerals. He was the former director of the Colorado Mining Association, which is an industry group advocating various programs to help the mining industry. He has been given the task of developing a shale oil policy. Unfortunately, his background, as that of several other members of the Government policy team, is such that he does not have the benefit of experience in a nonindustry position.

What all this means to me is that we have a serious deficiency in the leadership and direction of the energy policy of this Nation. It is quite obvious that there have been serious misjudgments on the part of our energy policy planners. What is more alarming is that people who should have been involved in the planning from the consumer standpoint and who have a background associated with the public interest, as opposed to private interests, appear to be absent from the ranks of this administration.

It seems to me we have a duty to make sure that the public interest is represented. I ask you, where is the balance? I believe we try to provide it here in the Congress. I think it is the administration's duty to be absolutely sure the public interest is well represented within their policy councils on these important questions.

I want to emphasize one point: I do not believe that these men are dishonest or that they are involved in a conscious conspiracy. They don't need to be. The real problem is that they all went to "the same school together."

They learned the same set of goals and facts, and they respond accordingly. Many of those in Government service came from the industry which they are now charged with regulating. Many of them will eventually return to high paying executive jobs in private industry-unless they rock the boat.

There is just no way that these men with industry backgrounds can totally appreciate the problems of consumers. In the same way. people with consumer backgrounds only, cannot appreciate the problems of industry. There should be an amalgamation of the two working together to come up with a rational policy to deal with the crisis we are facing. Unless and until this is done we can expect

no better than what we have had up until now, and I think most everyone within the sound of my voice will agree that what we have had up to now is certainly not satisfactory.

The Clayton Act, 15 U.S.C. 19, provides in pertinent part:

"No person at the same time shall be a director in any two or more corporations *** if such corporations are or shall have been theretofore, by virtue of their business and location of operation, competitors, so that the elimination of competition by agreement between them would constitute a violation of any of the provisions of any of the antitrust laws."

If that is still the law of the land, I am afraid there have been gross violations of that law.

Perry R. Bass currently is an independent producer of oil and gas. At the same time he is a director of Delhi International Oil Corp. He is the chairman of Hammar Petroleum Co., and he is chairman of Sid Richardson Carbon and Gasoline Co. Mr. Bass also is a member of the National Petroleum Council which serves as an advisory group to the Department of the Interior.

George R. Brown is an independent producer of oil and gas and is chairman of the executive committee and director of Texas Eastern Transmission Corp., which owns La Gloria Oil and Gas Co., Texas Eastern Supply Co., Texas Eastern Oil Co., and Texas Eastern Exploration Co. He is also a director of Louisiana Land and Exploration Co.

I understand he has recently resigned his position as a director of Louisiana Land and Exploration Co. in order to avoid any "misunderstanding" about the director positions which he holds.

Arleigh Burke is a director of Texaco Inc. and a director of Freeport Minerals Co., which owns Freeport Oil Co.

Marsh A. Cooper is a director of Texas Eastern Transmission Corp., a director of Home Oil Co., Ltd., a director of Natural Resources Growth Fund, Superior Oil Co., and Canadian Occidental Petroleum, Ltd.

John A. Crichton is a director of Dorchester Gas Corp., which owns Panoil Exploration. Inc., Palm Petroleum and Dorchester Exploration, Inc. He is also a director of Clark Oil and Refining Co., and the Inlet Oil Co. and president and director of Dallas Resources and affiliated companies which are: Alston Oil Co., Consolidated Development Corp., and Aragian Shield Development Corp.

James C. Donald III is president and director of Marathon Oil and chairman of Mountain Fuel Supply.

Herbert Frensley is a director of Texas Eastern Transmission Corp. and a director of Highland Resources, Inc.

Daniel F. Frost is the director of the Signal Co., the parent of Signal Oil and Gas Co., and a director of Tejon Ranch Co.

Jack Frost is a director of Alco Oil and Gas Corp., the director and president of Frost Oil Co. and an independent producer of oil and gas. He is also director and vice president of Leon Land and Cattle Co.

Alfred C. Glassell, Jr. is the president and director of Glassell Production Co.; director of Transcontinental Gas Pipeline Corp., which owns Transcontinental Production Co., a director of El Paso Natural Gas Co., which owns Odessa National Corp., a Pecos company, and Treble Drilling Co. Mr. Glassell is also a director of the First City Bank Corp. of Texas, and together with that bank he holds several producers' certificates in trust for other individuals.

Harry C. Hagerty is a director of Amerada Hess Corp.; director of W. R. Grace and Co., which owns Grace Oil Corp. and Grace Petroleum Corp.

Willard M. Johnson is a director of Austral Oil Co. and a director of Dixilyn Corp.

John David Kirkland is a group vice president of Pennzoil United, the parent of United Gas Pipline; Pennzoil Producing Co.; Pennzoil Offshore Gas Operators; Pennzoil Louisiana and Texas Operators; and Pennzoil Offshore Transmission Co. and a director of Mesa Petroleum Co. and a director of the Jupiter Corp.

John L. Loeb is a director of Distillers Corp.; Seagrams, Ltd., which owns Texas Pacific Oil Co.; a director of Dome Petroleum, Ltd., a major Canadian producer; and a director of Allied Chemical Co., which owns Union Texas Petroleum and Texas Gas Pipeline Co.

Augustus C. Long is the chairman of the executive committee and a director of Texaco, Inc., as well as a director of Freeport Mineral, which owns Freeport Oil Co.

Henry N. Mallon is a director of Dorchester Gas Corp., the parent of Palm Petroleum; Pennzoil Exploration, Inc.; and Dorchester Exploration, Inc.; and is a director of Scurries-Rainbor Oil, Ltd., a major Canadian producer.

Plato Malozemoff is chairman and president of Newmont Mining Co., which is the parent of Newmont Oil and Newmont Overseas Petroleum Co. He is also a member of the executive committee and a director of Continental Oil and a director of Canadian Export Gas and Oil, Ltd.

Jeff Montgomery is a director of Florida Gas Co., which owns Florida Gas Transmission Co., and Coastal Production Co., Seminole Drilling Co., and Southeastern Exploration Corp. He is also a director of Kirby Petroleum; Florida Gas Exploration Co., and Curry Industries, Inc., which owns Curry Petroleum and sits as a member of the National Petroleum Council.

William B. Moses is a director of Amerada Hess Corp.; a director of Newmont Mining Corp., which is the parent of Newmont Oil and Newmont Overseas Petroleum Co.

J. D. Murchison is chairman of Delhi International Oil Corp., Hamilton Brothers Petroleum and a director of Kirby Industries, which owns Kirby Petroleum.

V. F. Neuhaus is a director of Houston National Gas Corp. which owns Houston Pipeline Co., Houston Gas Production Co., Valley Gas Transmission Co., Valley Pipelines, Roden Oil and Mid Louisiana Gas Co. He is also a director of Florida Gas Co. and a director of Kirby Industries. He also is an independent producer of natural gas, selling to interstate pipeline companies under his own name. Beno C. Schmidt is a director of Freeport Minerals which owns Freeport Oil Co.; a director of Transcontinental Production Co.; a director of Teranaca Offshore Petroleum Co.; and a director of Global Marine.

Franz Schneider is a director of El Paso Natural Gas Co.; a director of Transcontinental Gas Pipeline Corp.; a director of Canadian Export Oil and Gas, Ltd.; and until recently, a director of Continental Oil and Newmont Mining. Horace A. Sheppard is a director of Standard Oil of Ohio and a director of Diamond Shamrock Corp.

Stuart F. Silloway is a director of American Petrofina and a director of Newmont Mining Corp.

Wilton R. Stephens is president and chairman of Arkansas Louisiana Gas Co., which owns Arkla Exploration Co. He is also a partner in Stephens Production and a coowner of Arkansas Oklahoma Gas Co.

Charles "Ted" Weiner is a director of the Fluor Corp.; a partner in Texas Crude Oil Co.; and president of Texas Crude Oil, Inc. He is a director of Petroleum Leaseholds, Inc.; So. Crude Co., Inc.; North American Oil and Gas, Inc.; and Galgury Crude Oil Co. He also holds a small producer's certificate, CS 72–788, issued May 5, 1972 to Ted Weiner Oil Properties.

Langbourne Williams is a member of the executive committee and a director of Texaco, Inc., and also serves as chairman of the executive committee and director of Freeport Minerals, which owns Freeport Oil Co.

Mr. D. A. McGee is a member of the National Petroleum Council. He is also the chairman of the Kerr-McGee Corp. and a director of Oklahoma Natural Gas Co.

Mr. John H. Williams is chairman of the board of The Williams Cos. and a member of the board of the Houston Natural Gas Co. He also serves on the National Petroleum Council.

In addition, I am filing with the committee a report I received from the Securities and Exchange Commission on board memberships of members of the National Petroleum Council. It is my hope that a study of this additional information will help the committee in its deliberations about the structure of the oil and gas industry.

I realize this has been a rather long exposition on my part concerning men who are leaders in the energy industry. Whether their activities are legal or not must be determined not by me and not even by this committee, but by the Justice Department of the United States.

A larger question that bothers me is whether or not in fact interlocking directorates, such as those I have just outlined, stifle competition to one degree or another. If there is no meaningful competition in the oil and gas industry, then it follows there is inadequate incentive to provide the Nation with the needed energy resources. If the individual members of the industry are basically content with their current share of the market or if their management structure precludes competition in the purse sense of the word and in the tradition of our free enterprise system, that makes the situation very bad news for the American consumer. 33-456-74--23

What I have presented to you today is in my view an unhealthy situation in a free enterprise economy. Monopolies or Government takeovers of industry are not, to my way of thinking, in the best interest of America. I believe strongly in the free enterprise system, as I explained at the outset of my testimony, and I will do everything within my power to make absolutely sure that this country remains an adherent to free enterprise.

It is my hope that this committee in its further investigation and deliberations will clarify the present situation within the energy industry.

If in fact antitrust action is necessary to break up the quasi-cartels which seemingly exist, then it is my hope that action will be taken swiftly.

If additional legislation is needed to keep this country from falling into the quicksand of an anticompetitive situation in a vital industry such as the energy industry, then I hope this legislation will be offered and passed quickly.

Whatever the solution is, whatever the information that I have brought before you eventually leads to, I want this committee to know that I will do everything I can to aid those that are vitally concerned about the energy problems this Nation faces.

I cannot and will not sit idly by in the face of evidence that there may indeed be within the oil industry a conscious effort to eliminate competition and hence, to break down the checks and balances which are natural products of a free, open, and competitive economic system.

Thank you very much.

Senator HASKELL. Thank you, Congressman, very much for a thoughtful addition to the committee's hearing.

You mentioned just at the end, a conscious effort. It may not be a conscious effort, but sometimes a wearing of two hats result in the effort subconsciously, and I think this is one of the items you brought forth.

I was handed here a book of quotations from Justice Brandeis, and in his discussion of director limitations he says: "For the proper exercise of the function of director, it is essential that he be disinterested, that is be free from conflicting interest." I believe you would concur with Mr. Justice Brandeis' analysis many years ago.

Congressman GUNTER. I certainly do, Mr. Chairman.

Senator HASKELL. Thank you very much, Congressman. This is a most important area. You heard Senator Metcalf state the frustrations he had in getting information and his statement that what we need are the facts before we act. I think Senator Johnston articulated the same thing. We are going to try to get facts because without them there is no way of taking intelligent action. Senator Johnston.

Senator JOHNSTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you Congressman Gunter for a very interesting and informative statement.

One thing was very curious to me, when you said the FPC was being run by Commissioner Rush Moody. You mean he has got the swing vote, or just is very influential, or what? I want to know who is to blame, because we get mad at the FPC.

Congressman GUNTER. I recognize Mr. Nassikas is the chairman, but from my observation of the Commission, or from my knowledge, from talking to a lot of people, my own opinion is that Mr. Rush Moody is the strong man on the Commission.

Senator JOHNSTON. Congressman Gunter, do you have any judgment on the vertical integration of oil companies, that is, are they anti-competitive, or is it the interlocking directorates that you think are mainly responsible for stifling competition?

Congressman GUNTER. At the outset of my testimony I indicated, and I state again for the record, I am not an expert in antitrust law nor in economics. Really, what I wanted to do this morning was to accomplish the end of bringing before this committee the facts as they relate to interlocking directorates because this has been of great concern to me personally.

For example, I cannot help but be concerned that stockholders who have an interest in a particular oil company are less than well served by these interlocking directorates where you have an individual serving on several different oil companies. How can a stockholder really know? Is there not a cloud of doubt with regard to the actions of a particular director when he sits on one board and is trying to set policy and make decisions relating to profits in that company while at the same time he sits on the board of another and another and another oil

or gas company which is in competition with the first? Those kinds of things are of great personal concern to me.

Senator JOHNSTON. You have obviously given this a great deal of consideration and research. In your consideration of it have you found out what it is that allows them to do this, have you talked with the Justice Department and checked the decisions under the Clayton Act? Do they just let them do it in violation of law, or is there a court decision, or what, do you know?

Congressman GUNTER. Senator, I am not a lawyer. I have not specifically asked the Justice Department to follow up myself. I mention in my testimony that Senator Stevenson had made a request relating to some of the same individuals that we have spoken to in our testimony. I am sending a copy of my testimony to officials of the Justice Department for their comments with regard to what we have said here.

Senator JOHNSTON. If you would furnish us a copy of that I think that would make a useful addition to our record.

Congressman GUNTER. I will certainly be happy to furnish this committee with any response from the Justice Department.

Senator JOHNSTON. Thank you so much, Congressman. You have added to our hearings very much. We appreciate your testimony.

Senator HASKELL. Senator Bartlett.

Senator BARTLETT. Congressman, I apologize for being absent when you testified. Mr. Chairman, thank you.

I understand, though, you were concerned about some people with oil backgrounds being in the Government and being involved with oil matters. My observations in the short time I have been here have been, perhaps, the opposite of yours.

One of them was actually before I came to Washington. It was when I was Governor of Oklahoma. I was concerned when the Oil Import Committee was appointed-I believe it was in 1969-that there was not one single member that had any knowledge or any background of oil or gas from experience or education. I suggested that there be a member added who would have a background in oil and gas, thinking it is important, because 78 percent of energy used is oil and gas and, of course, the import program consisted of oil almost entirely.

I was advised that this was done purposely so that the committee would be objective. I pointed out that I did not think objectivity was realized with absence of one point of view or with a lack of knowledge of a particular subject, particularly a subject about which the committee would deal.

Since being here, one particular person who was charged with responsibilities in the energy area was introduced to this committee in sort of a private session just for the purpose of meeting him. And the person introducing him, giving him some credibility to the committee, pointed out, he was charged with oil matters, gas matters, energy matters. In order to establish his credibility he pointed out that he had a background in the military and achieved a high rank in the military, that he had no experience in oil and gas. Therefore, he had no hang ups, no prejudice and, again, really because he didn't know anything about it he would do a good job.

I think part of the problem we have had in dealing with the energy crisis is that people on the committee and people in the executive branch of Government haven't had the experience in matters with which they are dealing. I think it would be sort of like having the White House appear before the Agricultural Committee to establish credibility for a person who is going to be in the White House, as this gentleman was that I talked about, and he would be introduced and it would be said that he is from Manhattan Island, he is a music major, he is going to be the liaison on agricultural matters, but rest assured he has no prejudices about agriculture, he is not involved either with the Farmers Union or the Farm Bureau, he will be completely objective. I think this has been one of the problems that this administration and this Congress has had in dealing with matters of energy.

I would be happy to have you comment on my remarks.

Congressman GUNTER. Senator, let me say, as I tried to express in my testimony that I am very concerned about a modicum of balance and frankly I have not seen that in what appears to be the high councils setting energy policy in the Government.

Before I came to the Congress I was in the insurance business, and I will just say to you, sir, that I would be very reluctant, looking back on that experience, for the State of Florida's policy with regard to insurance to have been totally