There is not any reason at all why the limitations as to the use of the funds could not be very clearly restricted, but there is this great difference, I think, and misunderstanding about physical education in contrast with athletics. And it is the physical education program that the chairman has been talking about this morning.

Mr. HECHT. If the bill could be changed to include the words "school health services" I would agree to that provision.

A great percentage of children in school, believe or not, cannot see properly and cannot hear properly and their whole educational development is handicapped, because their eyes and ears are not tested. That does not come under the term "physical education" as I understand it. I think that is a problem of school health services to conduct school health examinations which could uncover the physical defects of schoolchildren, which would then be referred back to the parents and the local health facilities for correction. Senator MORSE. Senator Yarborough?

Senator YARBOROUGH. I think, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Hecht made a very fine statement here and I agree with what you said about the necessity for giving the children examinations-physical examinations-in the schools so that these physical defects might be corrected. I certainly think the problem of the child who cannot see and hear adequately is a very big problem as the child is often branded in class as a stupid child.

Mr. Hecht, do you think that libraries are an important part of school equipment?

Mr. HECHT. I do, indeed.

Senator YARBOROUGH. We have given a study to the shortage of our library school facilities in the country and the fact that many schools have no libraries.

Do you have any recommendations along that line?

Mr. HECHT. I agree with you in principle but I do not want to testify on that. I might be accused of having a financial interest in school libraries.

I do not want to answer that.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I do not believe there would be any question from that standpoint. Thank you.

Senator MORSE. Senator Case?

Senator CASE. No questions.

Senator MORSE. Thank you very much.

STATEMENT OF DR. EDWARD C. ROEBER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PERSONNEL & GUIDANCE ASSOCIATION, ACCOMPANIED BY DR. ARTHUR A. HITCHCOCK

Senator MORSE. Our next witness will be Dr. Edward C. Roeber, president of the American Personnel & Guidance Association.

Dr. Roeber, we are very happy to have you before the committee this morning. You may proceed in your own way.

Dr. ROEBER. I would like to introduce also Dr. Arthur A. Hitchcock, our executive director, who accompanies me this morning. Senator MORSE. I am glad to have you with us. I am very sorry but my report did not show your name or I would have introduced you myself.

Dr. HITCHCOCK. Thank you.

Dr. ROEBER. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, I am Edward C. Roeber. I am president of the American Personnel & Guidance Association, and I am also professor of education at the University of Michigan. The American Personnel & Guidance Association is the professional association for persons engaged in guidance and counseling work in the schools and colleges of this Nation.

The membership of more than 14,000 represents all levels of education. The association has branches throughout the United States. I am accompanied by Arthur A. Hitchcock, executive director of the American Personnel & Guidance Association.

I wish to express to the committee the association's appreciation for this opportunity to speak on S. 1726. I will confine my remarks to those parts of the bill which are the particular concern of the association, namely those parts dealing with guidance and counseling and with the broad aspects of student development.

The American Personnel & Guidance Association supports the amendments to title V of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 as stated in S. 1726, but we will propose extension of several particular items.

Title V of the National Defense Education Act, aimed to stimulate the training of counselors, and to expand the identification and counseling of more able students, has brought about many fine results. Reports from the States indicate that guidance has become more accepted as essential to a well-balanced education program; that statewide testing programs have been greatly expanded; that the ratio of students to counselors has been reduced, thus making more attention to individual students possible; that the impetus of the National Defense Education Act has been great in influencing capable personnel to enter guidance and counseling programs; that the demand for qualified counselors exceeds the number available; that curriculum changes have been made to better serve the needs of students with various aptitudes and abilities identified through guidance, counseling, and testing; and that there is a trend toward increased testing and counseling at the junior high and elementary levels to identify capacities and talents at an earlier age.

Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like now to skip around for a few pages and just point up some of the findings that we have.

For example, from Iowa, North Carolina, Oklahoma-and we could cite others we have evidence of the increase in the number of counselors and students served. We also have evidence from Alabama in terms of the identification and motivation of students.

We have listed some of the results as far as Arizona is concerned. Research has shown that where adequate programs are available or better, dropouts were lower and higher achievement is obtained by those receiving the proper guidance.

In Wisconsin-we have evidence from Wisconsin. We have this important bit of information that the student-counselor ratio has been reduced on a nationwide basis from 750:1 in 1958 to 600:1 in 1960 which is still far below the 250:1 recommended in the Conant Report.

With your permission, I would also like to submit some local evidence from my own State. At my own institution, the University of Michigan, we have recently studied a comparative group of counselors

who took work under the full-year National Defense Education Act guidance and counseling institute of 1959-60 and those who attended regular full-time study in the program during the decade of the 1950's.

This study had led us to conclude that twice as many counselors who study in the full-year institute go on to immediate counseling duties in the secondary schools in comparison with students who have obtained their education in the regular program.

The logical conclusion from this survey would indicate that the money appropriated by the Congress for the purposes of these institutes is being directly felt in increased numbers of counselors in the schools and in better trained counselors in these schools.

Title V, A and B, of the National Defense Education Act, have both provided tremendous positive effects on school guidance program. But, much remains to be accomplished. The American Personnel Guidance Association stands strongly with the development of high quality counseling in the schools. This condition has not been universally achieved. We believe that the National Defense Education Act program of Federal support for counselor education should stand for quality.

Therefore, we firmly back an expanded proposal for full-year institute study or a yearlong traineeship program before a counselor begins his work in the school. We also support the short-term institute for upgrading of counselors already on the job who need additional graduate study to increase their professional competencies. This would be particularly applicable to counselors in rural sections or in economically depressed areas.

Mr. Chairman, there are several points in S. 1726 that I would like to comment on briefly. One, is the provision under section 511(b) relating to traineeships. It is the position of this association that this traineeship program should be expanded to cover support for doctoral level study for university counselor educators, and the supervision of counselors on the job.

We feel that if we are to adequately strengthen our counselor education program we need to have more fully staffed graduate centers in universities throughout the country. The number of graduate training centers is now limited.

To expand this number we need more instructors who have had advanced graduate study through the doctoral level. Many universities are expresing an interest in offering counselor education programs but lack of high-level faculty to begin the project. The expended traineeship program I am speaking about, which is further outlined in the attached position paper, would help to provide additional graduate counselor education facilities.

Secondly, the association maintains the position that there should be full support for guidance, counseling, and testing for all elementary grades. Numerous studies indicate that severe problems of underachievement of our talented students begin in the elementary grades and are so deep rooted by the time they reach secondary school (if they do) that little remedial work can be accomplished.

We need, then, to have adequate counseling and guidance programs in the elementary schools to challenge and motivate our bright and academically talented students to develop to their optimum potential. May I respectfully point out that S. 1726 now under consideration

makes provision for graduate study for elementary school counselors but offers no support for an elementary school guidance, counseling, and testing program under proposed State plans.

We believe that we must create provisions for research in order that the effectiveness of both counselor education and counseling can be evaluated. It is the position of this association that no time limit. should be set on the extension of title V of the related amendments.

A fine start has been made under the stimulation of the National Defense Education Act program with the alliance of State and local effort. But much more is needed before we can provide our American youth with full and complete knowledge of their capabilities, talents, and aptitudes and to motivate them to take full advantage of this knowledge.

Even though the number of students per counselor has been reduced in the last 2 years there is still a long way to go before it reaches the recommended 250:1 ratio as advocated by the recent James B. Conant Report on the American High Schools.

It is also indicated that this vital counseling activity be extended to the elementary schools in order that much of our needed talent is identified before they reach the secondary schools.

Senator MORSE. I thank you for this testimony but I want the record to show that you could not have a more ardent witness in support of your program and the recommendation than the chairman of this committee, because of all of my work in the academic field. I think this work, the matter of counseling with and helping young people find the place where they make the maximum use of their potential is the best way to prevent waste.

We used to take the position that if a person or student of average intelligence flunked out of college it was the fault of the faculty in the first sense because they had not done a good job of finding that niche related to the aptitude of that student where they could succeed in dealing with students who had psychological problems and who were not in college because they wanted to be there but because of parental reasons and others.

This is a wonderful program. And when you spend money for this program you are spending money for defense in the very real meaning of the term "defense." I find myself enthusiastically in support of your program.

Senator Yarborough?

Senator YARBOROUGH. I concur with the chairman's conclusions. I think this is a fine service.

Senator MORSE. Senator Case?

Senator CASE. No questions.

Senator MORSE. Thank you very much.

Mr. ROEBER. Thank you, sir.

(The prepared statement of Dr. Edward C. Roeber follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF EDWARD C. ROEBER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PERSONNEL

& GUIDANCE ASSOCIATION

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am Edward C. Roeber. I am president of the American Personnel & Guidance Association, which is the professional association for persons engaged in guidance and counseling work in the schools and colleges of this Nation. The membership of more than 14,000 represents all levels of education. The association has branches throughout the

United States. I am accompanied by Arthur A. Hitchcock, executive director of the American Personnel & Guidance Association.

I wish to express to the committee the association's appreciation for this opportunity to speak on S. 1726. I will confine my remarks to those parts of the bill which are the particular concern of the association, namely those parts dealing with guidance and counseling and with the broad aspects of student development.

The American Personnel & Guidance Association supports the amendments to title V of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 as stated in S. 1726, but we will propose extension of several particular items.

Title V of the National Defense Education Act, aimed to stimulate the training of counselors, and to expand the identification and counseling of more able students, has brought about many fine results. Reports from the States indicate that guidance has become more accepted as essential to a well-balanced education program; that statewide testing programs have been greatly expanded; that the ratio of students to counselors has been reduced, thus making more attention to individual students possible; that the impetus of the National Defense Education Act has been great in influencing capable personnel to enter guidance and counseling programs; that the demand for qualified counselors exceeds the number available; that curriculum changes have been made to better serve the needs of students with various aptitudes and abilities identified through guidance, counseling, and testing; and that there is a trend toward increased testing and counseling at the junior high and elementary levels to identify capacities and talents at an earlier age.

The overall national effect has been the recognition of the need for guidance, counseling and testing to identify the aptitudes and abilities of students in order to assist in directing these talents toward their optimum development. This deep interest in the benefits of guidance services is being translated into programs of action with the assistance of grants to the States under title V, part A, and training institutes for counselors under title V, part B.

Some striking examples of the effect of the National Defense Education Act include: (1) the growth in guidance services in Iowa where from the school year 1957-58 to 1960-61 the number of guidance programs increased from 33 to 345 and the percent of secondary pupils served increased from 20 percent to 84 percent; (2) North Carolina's increase in full-time counselors from 18 in 1958-59 to 100 in 1959-60; (3) the increase in the number of certified counselors available to local schools in Oklahoma from 49 in January 1959 to 337 as of July 1, 1960, now serving approximately 71 percent of secondary school students in the State. In Alabama students with varying abilities and achievement levels are being identified much more readily through the statewide testing program supported by the National Defense Education Act. Many schools throughout the Nation are using special grouping, advanced placement, enrichment of curriculum, or the addition of courses to provide for able students identified through NDEA-sponsored programs.

New York reports improved testing activities, extensive improvement in educational and career information, and increased individual counseling time with students made available through support by the National Defense Education Act funds. Handbooks have been prepared and orientation activities for higher education are initiated early in a student's high school years.

RESULTS OF STRENGTHENED GUIDANCE PROGRAMS

Research has shown that where adequate guidance programs were available, dropouts were lower, failures were lessened, and higher achievement was attained by those receiving the proper guidance. For example, dropouts in the Tuscon, Ariz., high schools were reduced 40 percent after guidance services were made available. Harvard researchers, in an experimental study of high school groups, found that 27 percent of those students provided with adequate counseling made honor grades compared with only 10 percent among the uncounseled; after graduation, only a third of the uncounseled students were admitted to college while over 50 percent of those counseled matriculated into higher education. In Waterloo, Iowa, West High School had a 7 percent to 8 percent failure rate annually; after a guidance program was launched there recently, the incidence of failure was cut in half. A school system in Louisiana reports that through its program of guidance, counseling, and testing they had reduced failures from 33 percent to 7 percent.