STATEMENT OF JOHN G. SCHADE, WESTFIELD, N.J., DIRECTOR OF THE NEW JERSEY CITIZENS COUNCIL ON AGING, DELEGATE TO THE WHITE HOUSE CONFERENCE ON AGING, CHAIRMAN OF THE PHOENIX LODGE, 315 IAM, MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE OF UNION COUNTY COUNCIL, AFL-CIO, AND REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NEW JERSEY STATE COUNCIL FOR AGING ON SENIOR CITIZENS, AFL-CIO

Mr. SCHADE. Are there any others scheduled?

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Mr. Schade, we have no other people scheduled as witnesses.

Mr. SCHADE. Then along with the others, my name is John G. Schade, Westfield, N.J., and I am a member of all of the groups that I mentioned.

I am of the firm belief, as well as countless members of my organization and many citizens that I have come in contact with, that the Federal Government should set up a special agency on senior citizens, instead of being divided up into several agencies as now.

They should do this to ascertain the problems of our senior citizens and to make remedial relief of those problems.

Also said agencies to supervise and direct similar agencies throughout the various States with mandates and rules governing the State agencies, so it would be uniform action that will prevail and not politics or special interests would be the ruling factor.

I am also in favor of the King-Anderson bill of health care being administered under social security, although I feel that bill doesn't go all the way, it doesn't go quite far enough in providing health care for our senior citizens. Still it is a start in the right direction and can be improved upon at a later date.

Those who do not come under the social security, I would recom ment that the Congress and Senate enact a bill to take care of these citizens as well.

The social security approach has proven devoid of politics or special interests, but it treats all alike, hence I myself, and I have come in contact with a lot of people who feel the same way, feel that a very great majority of our senior citizens have, in many cases, given their all or practically all and now in their declining years where help is necessary they should as of their right be helped.

This here is an example which I feel should be brought out to counteract those who by misunderstanding or false stating should be told. Several years ago I was in charge of a body of men with the Public Service Co. and had many of them that were paid Saturdays and Monday they were broke. But they spent their all and the various merchants were the beneficiaries of them, and were they not piled into needs and helped when it was so needed, because I found they were not only my best but modest workers as well. That concludes my statement.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you, Mr. Schade. Did we get into the record the name of your organization?

Mr. SCHADE. As I said, I think he got the names.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. The reason I want to be sure that you mentioned in your statement is I think he said we support the King-Anderson bill.

Mr. SCHADE. Yes.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. I was wondering if all the organizations that you mentioned to me prior to the meeting are supporting the KingAnderson bill?

Mr. SCHADE. I can say that the greater majority that I have come in contact with have expressed it. The workings of the King-Anderson bill as I have been given a copy of, been checking through it, and when I have told them what was expected and what could be accomplished by it they were very heartily in favor. Because as I stated here, while it does have some meeting of our needs it needs some improvements, at the same time it is a step in the right direction and of course it could be improved on later.

I might state further that I was in touch with Congresswoman Dwyer, who represents my district, the Sixth Congressional District in Union County. I stated to Congresswoman Dwyer the same, practically the same as I have stated here in regard to the King-Anderson bill. She was to a certain extent a little noncommittal, although I have not finished up the argument with her. Because I will say here, maybe off the record, she was very much in favor of this Javits, Senator Javits, bill that she wanted to put through on the health care for the aged. I don't want this on the record, though.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you very much. Is there anybody else here who wants to add anything for the record?

If not, we will consider this informal hearing as adjourned and thank you very much. I want to apologize because I don't know what has happened to Congressman Bailey. I hope he has not had any accident or illness.

(Whereupon, at 3:55 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.)

PROBLEMS OF THE AGED AND AGING

TUESDAY, APRIL 17, 1962

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

GENERAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Washington, D.C. The committee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 429, House Office Building, Hon. Cleveland M. Bailey presiding.

Present: Representatives Bailey, Brademas, O'Hara, Hansen, and Frelinghuysen.

Also present: Robert E. McCord, subcommittee staff director; Dr. Deborah Padgett Wolfe, education chief, committee on Education and Labor; and Ted Ellsworth, special consultant on aged and aging to General Subcommittee on Education.

Mr. BAILEY. The subcommittee will be in order.

The committee is meeting today to resume hearings on legislation having to do with the aged and aging.

We started off these hearings by giving certain Members of the Congress who had introduced legislation in this field an opportunity

to be heard.

We have as our first witness this morning Congressman John Fogarty, of Rhode Island, who has been quite active in this particular field. While we are considering several bills, we are today considering H.R. 10014 by Mr. Fogarty.

This is to provide for the aged adequate incomes and employment opportunities, adequate health care, housing, independence in living arrangements, activities of a civic, cultural, recreational, and community nature, services to provide social assistance, research to improve health and happiness, freedom and independence in planning their own lives, and coordination of Federal, State, and private agencies to achieve these objectives.

Mr. Fogarty, you may further identify yourself for the reporter and proceed with your presentation.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN E. FOGARTY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND

Mr. FOGARTY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, my name is John E. Fogarty, and I am a Representative from the Second Congressional District in Rhode Island.

First, I would like to say to the chairman that I would like to thank you for this opportunity, but also to add that I do not know of any man in Congress, from the time that I have been here, that has had a deeper interest in the health and the welfare and the education of the people of West Virginia and the country as a whole.

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Mr. BAILEY. Thank you, Mr. Fogarty.

Mr. FOGARTY. And the chairman has appeared before my committee on many occasions, and we have listened to him, because we have extended programs and expanded programs at his request in the fields of health, education, and welfare.

Mr. BAILEY. Mr. Brademas, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to appear to support H.R. 10014, establishing a U.S. Commission on Aging, which I introduced January 31 of this year at the same time Senator McNamara introduced an identical bill in the Senate.

It is my understanding that you will also be considering other bills which would strengthen the Federal program on aging. All of the bills recognize the unmet need for positive action. Most of them suggest the creation of a special organizational unit on aging within the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

Over a period of almost 12 years we have tried to encourage the Department to assume a leadership role in aging and to expand its staff and programs to meet the needs and rights of the increasing number of older persons in our population.

The Congressional Record and reports of hearings on appropriations document and demonstrate the need for an independent Commission on Aging if we are ever to achieve the goals that are outlined in the 600 recommendations of the White House Conference on Aging, and have since been repeated in hearings and conferences held throughout the Nation. A commission would be able to take bold action without regard to a departmental policy or prejudice that consistently assigns low priority and limited staff to cope with the most demanding social problems of our time.

The most convincing presentation I could make this morning would be a playback of testimony presented at previous hearings, by officials of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

I have continued to charge the administrators of programs for the aging with failure to exercise leadership and to take action worthy of a Government that has made such great strides in bringing security and independence to less fortunate individuals around the world and at the same time fails to heed the voices of 17 million of its own senior citizens who ask only to share in the profits of their efforts and to live in dignity and independence.

It was the vision and will of Congress that sponsored and enacted the White House Conference on Aging Act. I believe, we again must exercise the faith and trust of our stewardship by endorsing an independent Commission on Aging as the immediate answer for action that will translate the vague promises and good intentions of social theorists and articulate bureaucrats into practical, meaningful programs that will incorporate the wisdom and support of all Government departments and agencies without the undue control or influence of any

one.

No doubt you will be hearing testimony from individuals who now endorse everything about a commission but its independent status. They will attempt to rationalize the placement of such an organization on aging within the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. And yet, it was not long ago that representatives for that Depart

ment were saying that "a centralization of existing services" could result in

an abrogation of the sound principle of functional and decentralized organization utilizing the manifold resources inside and outside the Federal Government. Several of the agencies within the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare have developed sound programs and traditions of expertness in dealing with matters which concern our older citizens. This is equally true of the 12 other departments and agencies of the Federal Council on Aging. These other agency programs would not be improved by centralizing services and increasing the authority of one department. To the contrary, such action could adversely affect and diminish the orderly development of programs important to the aged which they are best qualified to administer.

Another statement that was made by an HEW official before our committee

because aging has so many facets, income maintenance, health, housing and so forth, we are never going to place it in a single bureau or single agency responsibility.

This is also an interesting quote:

They end up with

If you create a large staff, they end up creating their own program; they are not coordinating; they are not working with other agencies. their own program.

Still another:

No unit working on an operational program basis in our Department as a bureau can really effectively deal with programs that are in other departments. These and many more such denials of the role of the Department or inability of the Department to give the broad leadership required where so many programs and agencies are involved, gave convincing proof that if an agency to deal with the full scope of aging were established, it would have to be organized above departmental interests and problems, on a full partnership basis with all of the many departments and agencies that have so much to offer to aging in the programs for which they have responsibility.

The concept of an independent Commission on Aging is the organizational pattern the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare has recommended for the States. It is especially interesting to me to note in the study on "Aging in Rhode Island", conducted by the special staff on aging, 7 or 8 years ago, the first recommendation in the summary states:

Whatever agency or committees may be developed, should be independent of existing departments of the Government and be responsible to the Governor. We followed this recommendation and have found it to be most satisfactory. Other States have implemented this recommendation and will be testifying to its effectiveness.

It is difficult for me to understand why such an organization is "right" for the States and "wrong" for the Federal Government. I am sure the answer would suggest that, no one State government department embraces all of the programs of HEW. This might also suggest that because of the very size and volume of the program in the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, that programs on aging, though vital nationally, get lost or have a low departmental priority and seldom get beyond the talking or conference stage.

This may also account for the recent statement in the Congressional Record that Secretary Ribicoff believes that HEW is "too big" and