I have a letter here from the county of Los Angeles, board of supervisors, which I would like to leave for the record, in which it is stated that an order was adopted endorsing two bills concurrently before the Senate and House Committees on Government Operations, S. 1527 and H. R. 4660, and I am sure they endorse the other bill which was introduced by Mr. Brooks.

Mr. BROOKS. We shall be glad to have the letter inserted as a part of the record at this point.

(The letter referred to follows:)

COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES,

BOARD OF SUPERVISORS,
Los Angeles, July 14, 1955.

Re endorsement of Federal bills, H. R. 3660 and S. 1527.
Hon. GLENARD P. LIPSCOMB,

Congressman, 24th Congressional District,

House Office Building, Washington, D. C.

DEAR CONGRESSMAN LIPSCOMB: At the meeting of the board of supervisors of the county of Los Angeles, on July 12, 1955, an order was adopted endorsing two bills currently before the Senate and House Committees on Government Operations, S. 1527 and H. R. 4660, which would clearly authorize the disposal of valuable Federal surplus property to local civil defense agencies.

Action of the board was taken following favorable recommendation by the County Supervisors Association of California as being essential to the necessary expansion of local civil defense agencies.

Sincerely yours,

RAY E. LEE, Chief Clerk.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I also have a letter from the director of the office of civil defense, State of California, supporting the measures also.

I would like to have that letter made a part of the record. Mr. BROOKS. Without objection, the letter will be made a part of the record at this point.

(The material referred to is as follows:)

Hon. GLENARD P. LIPSCOMB,

House Office Building, Washington, D. C.

STATE OF CALIFORNIA,

OFFICE OF CIVIL DEFENSE, Sacramento, Calif., June 27, 1955.

DEAR CONGRESSMAN LIPSCOMB: We have previously written of our interest in the passage of H. R. 4660 and S. 1527, making surplus property available to Civil Defense.

We have been informed that the bills are currently before the Committees on Governmental Operations and "are in a bad way."

Anything you can do to aid in their passage will be appreciated.

The cities and counties, as well as the State office of civil defense, are deeply concerned.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

STANLEY PIERSON, Director.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I appreciate this opportunity to appear before the subcommittee, and I hope this legislation will be favorably acted upon. Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Riehlman?

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Mr. Chairman, might I respond to what my distinguished colleague has had to say by making this comment:

He served for nearly 2 years on the committee of which I was chairman when we studied this surplus property program, and I do not think there is any member of our committee who is better versed in what there is to surplus property matters than Mr. Lipscomb. I am delighted that he could come over here this morning, and add his

words of encouragement to the committee with respect to this legislation.

Mr. BROOKS. Thank you very much, Mr. Riehlman.

You have represented the attitude of the committee toward Mr. Lipscomb.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

Mr. BROOKS. Gentlemen, without further ado, I would like at this time to present the first witness in behalf of this legislation, which I might add was introduced at the suggestion originally of the Federal Civil Defense Administration.

I would like at this time to present the very distinguished former Governor, Val Peterson, Administrator of the Federal Civil Defense Administration.

STATEMENT OF VAL PETERSON, FEDERAL CIVIL DEFENSE ADMINISTRATOR, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. PETERSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I have a brief statement which I believe I can read, and maybe save some time.

I welcome the opportunity to appear before this distinguished committee in behalf of surplus property legislation. I have with me members of my staff who will testify on the technical and legal aspects of such legislation.

I might say, too, as a matter of introduction, that you have in this room, Mr. Chairman, some of the finest leaders in civil defense at both the State and city levels. You have in this room men who know this problem thoroughly from the civil-defense standpoint.

I am here to tell you why such legislation is needed and that as Federal Civil Defense Administrator I endorse H. R. 4660 or legislation that would accomplish the same result.

In enacting Public Law 61 on May 19 of this year, Congress again affirmed the sound principle that the public has the right to utilize for community purposes the property it already owns. What you have done, therefore, has been beneficial and salutary, and from the taxpayers' standpoint, economically sound, and it will be welcomed by State and local officials throughout the country.

What we seek today is a broadening of the policy set forth in the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949, so as to provide for the donation of surplus property for civil-defense agencies. The enactment of H. R. 4660 or H. R. 7227 with some minor changes, will bring this about:

Before relinquishing the balance of my time to my assistants, who are better acquainted with the technical and legal aspects of the proposal, I would like to emphasize the following points:

First, this proposal was sent to the Congress as an administration measure. It has taken time to resolve a number of difficult problems raised by the Departments concerned with this multimillion dollar program. This has now been done, and I believe that the legislation before you is workable.

Second, in the event of an atomic attack on the United States, civil-defense agencies will require vast quantities of equipment, clothing, and supplies, some of which are available from surplus stocks.

My assistants and the State and local officials here will give you specific examples.

Third, in recent months many Members of Congress have introduced bills aimed at making it possible for civil-defense agencies to acquire surplus property. This shows that Congress is aware of the problem and anxious to help. With my concurrence, the National Association of State Civil Defense Directors attempted during the hearings to secure an amendment to H. R. 3322-now Public Law 61-to broaden the proposal so as to authorize utilization of surplus property for civil-defense purposes.

As committee study was nearly complete, it was too late to receive sufficient consideration of the proposed amendment before enactment of Public Law 61. However, during floor debate on H. R. 3322, the majority leader and author of the bill, Mr. John McCormack, made this significant statement:

There has also been a bill introduced in relation to civil defense, which I am very favorably disposed toward, but the subcommittee felt that we should confine our attention to existing law rather than for the subcommittee to consider new classes of beneficiaries. We were in agreement that bills regarding such possible new classes should be considered separately and upon their own merits.

The fourth point I would like to make is that Congress recognized the problem in part in 1953 by providing after the Worcester disaster and various hurricanes that surplus property could be used for disaster relief.

Finally, the large amount of surplus property for which the Department of Defense is custodian for the people of the United States should be made available for public use where there is a demonstrable need. There is no better use for the Nation's surplus personal property than to prepare our people for survival in case of atomic attack and to help them recover after an attack.

Thank you very much for this opportunity to appear this morning, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BROOKS. Governor, we are very pleased to have had you come before us, and we realize it was some inconvenience for you to make it down today, but we are pleased that you could present this interesting statement in support of this legislation.

I wonder if any of the committee members have any particular questions at this time?

I think your statement was very concise, and comprehensive.
Mr. Riehlman, do you have any questions?

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding that the technical end of the legislation is going to be handled by other witnesses from the Department, and therefore I will refrain from asking the Director any questions at this time.

I will just comment that I appreciate having the opportunity of meeting him today. I have known, of course, of his interest in this legislation, for quite some time.

That is all.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Reuss?

Mr. REUSS. No questions.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Younger?

Mr. YOUNGER. I have no questions.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Kreuger?

Mr. KREUGER. No questions.

Mr. BROOKS. I want to thank you very much, Governor.

Mr. PETERSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

May I introduce Colonel Brown of my staff, who would like to appear as a witness, and Mr. Manning, who is on our legal staff. Mr. BROOKS. What Manning is that, sir?

Mr. PETERSON. Charles M. Manning.

Mr. BROOKS. Thank you very much.

At this time I would like to present a man whom you just met, Col. Harry E. Brown, Assistant Administrator for Operations Control Services, Federal Civil Defense Administration.

At this time, Colonel, if you would be so kind as to lay out some of the more technical and pertinent aspects of this legislation, we would be very happy to hear from you.

STATEMENT OF COL. HARRY E. BROWN, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR OPERATIONS CONTROL SERVICES, FEDERAL CIVIL DEFENSE ADMINISTRATION; ACCOMPANIED BY CHARLES M. MANNING, LEGAL STAFF, FEDERAL CIVIL DEFENSE ADMINISTRATION

Colonel BROWN. Mr. Chairman, I have a statement here which I could either read or present to the committee.

It is an elaboration of the Governor's statement.

Mr. BROOKS. Colonel, it might be the best thing to do if it is possible for you to paraphrase, maybe, the pertinent parts of that statement, and submit a copy of the written statement to the committee, and a copy thereof will be inserted into the record at this point.

(The statement referred to follows:)

STATEMENT OF COL. HARRY E. BROWN, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR OPERATIONS CONTROL SERVICES, FEDERAL CIVIL DEFENSE ADMINISTRATION

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, it is a pleasure to appear before you today as the representative of the Federal Civil Defense Administration on a proposal so vital to the civil defense of the Nation. H. R. 4660, a bill to amend further the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of 1949, as amended, to authorize the disposal of surplus property for civil-defense purposes, that would fill a long standing need in the civil-defense field.

The purpose of the bill is to further amend Public Law 152, 81st Congress, to provide for the donation by the General Services Administration to the civildefense organizations of the States, political subdivisions and instrumentalities thereof, of surplus Federal property which shall have been determined by the Federal Civil Defense Administrator to be usable and necessary for civil-defense purposes.

Under existing law, the General Services Administrator is authorized in his discretion to donate to eligible institutions surplus property usable and necessary for educational and public-health purposes as determined by the Secretary, Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. The Secretary allocates such property on the basis of needs and utilization for transfer by the General Services Administrator to the eligible donees. Enactment of this proposal would provide for the transfer of surplus property by the General Services Administrator for civil-defense purposes on a workable basis consistent with established procedures for disposal of such property and coordinated to the needs of interested agencies of the Government. The Federal Civil Defense Administrator would determine whether available surplus property is usable and necessary for civil-defense purposes and would allocate such property on the basis of needs and utilization for transfer by the General Services Administrator. The proposal covers only surplus personal property and does not include real property.

Provision is made for the Federal Civil Defense Administrator to issue regulations relating to transfer of surplus property to eligible civil-defense organizations, subject to the approval of the General Services Administrator, to assure

maximum utilization of such property for civil-defense purposes. It is also provided that in carrying out the responsibilities of the Federal Civil Defense Administrator under this proposal, certain provisions of the Federal Civil Defense Act shall apply. These require the Administrator to utilize, to the maximum extent possible, existing facilities and resources of the Federal Government and refrain from engaging in any form of activity which would duplicate or parallel activity of any other Federal department or agency.

It is contemplated that the procedures currently in effect with respect to the screening and donation of surplus property for health and educational purposes would generally apply to donations of surplus property for civil defense purposes. Such procedures would provide for the screening of inventories of surplus property by the Federal Civil Defense Administrator at holding agencies and at GSA regional offices. The Federal Civil Defense Administrator would determine which of the property screened is usable and necessary for civil defense purposes and would submit notice of such determination to the appropriate GSA regional office for approval. If donation of the property covered by the determination is approved by GSA, the holding agency would be advised to hold such property for donation to eligible civil defense organizations.

In effecting an allocation of surplus property among the States, the procedures which have been worked out and found generally satisfactory by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare in distributing surplus property for educational and public health purposes, would generally apply. Allocations of donable property would be made by the Federal Civil Defense Administrator on the basis of need and usability of the property. Factors such as the following would be taken into consideration in effecting an allocation of such property:

(a) States in greatest need for the type of property to be allocated. (b) Location, condition, and transportability of property.

(c) Ability of the eligible applicant or State agency to meet transportation requirements for accepting the property.

(d) Availability of funds to the eligible applicant or State agency to accept, pick up, and transport the property, and, in case of a State agency, to warehouse, distribute, care for, and handle the property if necessary.

(e) The amount of property of a given type already available to an eligible applicant or State agency, as the case may be, as compared to the needs of other eligible applicants.

The terms and conditions of donations or transfers would generally provide that property acquired by an eligible donee would be used for civil defense purposes. Donees would not, for a specified period of time, be authorized to sell, trade, lease, or otherwise dispose of or encumber such property without the prior approval of FCDA. Property thus acquired would be used in the civil defense programs of the States, political subdivisions and instrumentalities thereof, in accordance with plans developed jointly between the States and the FCDA regional administrators. It is our view that maximum utilization of such property would be made by civil defense organizations and other institutions currently eligible to receive such property by donation, and that any conflicting interest among eligible donees with respect to particular types of property which could be utilized by civil defense organizations and other eligible donees, would be reconciled at State and local levels.

The civil defense of the Nation needs a wide variety of property to meet the possibility of a mass enemy attack upon the United States, This requirement would be met in part by the enactment of this proposal. Some of the surplus property now being declared surplus by the Military Establishment is identical with, or a satisfactory substitute for, certain items in the long-range civil defense contributions programs. It is anticipated that some items may be declared surplus that will serve to reduce the stockpiling program.

It will be the policy of this agency to approach the utilization of surplus property to supplement existing programs in a careful and highly selective manner, keeping in mind the fact that civil defense is a long-range program and that handling, transportation, and storage costs over a period of years should be kept to an absolute minimum consistent with the unquestioned need for specialized equipment in an emergency.

The advantages of providing usable and necessary equipment for civil defense purposes to minimize the effects of a mass enemy attack on the United States will outweigh the financial advantages that might accrue to the Government if such property were disposed of by sale.