The States and cities of our country are striving mightily, in hand with the Federal Government, to bring about a state of civil defense readiness. Enactment of H. R. 4660 will give them a hand up in this struggle, by making available supplies and equipment either usable in the form declared surplus or readily adaptable to civil defense purposes.

The great bulk of Federal property feeding into the surplus chain originates in the Department of Defense. Funds appropriated by the Congress for the defense of the Nation purchased these goods. Before property still badly needed in the civil defense of the Nation is put into the market place, we feel the opportunity to use it for the defense of our people should be afforded. Enactment of H. R. 4660, or a similar measure, would assure that opportunity. The FCDA therefore strongly urges the committee's favorable consideration of the proposal. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee.

Mr. BROOKS. You may proceed, Colonel Brown.

Colonel BROWN. Mr. Chairman, we feel that this bill is one of the most important bills from our standpoint which has been before the Congress for some time. There is literally millions of dollars worth of surplus property which could be used for civil defense purposes. I have some examples of such property that has been declared surplus this year, that I will submit later on.

Mr. BROOKS. If you have any extra copies of your statement, we could be looking it over, as you paraphrase it, and maybe pick up a few ideas.

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir; we also want to ask the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to continue to cooperate in this program exactly as they do it in their own program. They have an organization built up at the National and State levels, and we hope that they will continue to do this same work just as they are doing it in their own field of education, public health, and welfare.

Governor Peterson will issue regulations relating to the transfer of this property to those who are eligible to receive it. We will screen the property in about the same way that the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare is going about it at this time.

Mr. Peterson will determine which property is usable, and will notify the General Services Administration and our own regional offices to that effect.

We expect to have our regional offices administer this surplus property program at the regional level. Our regional offices conform pretty much with those of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. We have always had a very good working arrangement with those people, and we feel that they are the ones to assist us in administering this program.

We believe that every civil defense director in the United States at both the State and local level is for this bill, and we know it will help them a great deal in trying to carry out their work.

Thank you.

Mr. BROOKS. Colonel, do you feel that it would be very helpful to allow those particular items which are of interest to the Defense Department to be assigned to civil defense agencies on an earmarked basis, where they would, thereby, more readily meet the needs of the defense of this country?

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BROOKS. Will you please elaborate on that?

Mr. MANNING. Mr. Chairman, may I speak on that, please, sir? Mr. BROOKS. If it is possible, Mr. Counsel, I would like Colonel Brown to answer, and then you may proceed.

Colonel BROWN. You are speaking about section 3 of H. R. 7227? Mr. BROOKS. That is right.

Colonel BROWN. In the Governor's report to you, he covers that on the second page.

Mr. MANNING. I might advise, Mr. Chairman, that this report has not been submitted, as yet. It is awaiting clearance by the Bureau of the Budget.

Mr. BROOKS. Which report are you discussing, Mr. Manning?

Mr. MANNING. The report requested by the committee on H. R. 7227, sir, the substitute measure.

Mr. BROOKS. Are you referring to Mr. Peterson's statement, or what?

Mr. MANNING. I am referring to our report to the committee on H. R. 7227.

Mr. BROOKS. I have not seen the report.

Mr. MANNING. It is the document to which he referred. It is not in the hands of the committee as yet, because it is awaiting clearance for submission from the Bureau of the Budget. If the Chairman wishes, sir, I can submit it at this time.

Mr. BROOKS. Good. We would like to see it. It would be of some interest to us.

Mr. MANNING. I would like to do this with the distinct understanding that it does not represent the President's position, nor the Bureau of the Budget position. We would like to amend it later to express whatever comments the Bureau of the Budget has on it, Mr. Chairman. Mr. BROOKS. I understand that this just expresses the views of the people who are vitally concerned with civil defense, and not necessarily the Bureau of the Budget, nor the President, as you have just pointed out. We would be very pleased to have a copy of it.

Colonel, did you want to just paraphrase what the feeling was about that particular section possibly as represented here, but as has been brought to your attention in your years of study in the Department of Defense in this matter?

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir. In that, our feeling is that the Administrator of our Agency is the one responsible for Federal civil defense throughout the Nation by law, and that he is the one who should make the allocations to the different States. As I said a few minutes ago, we proposed to do that through the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Could I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. BROOKS. Yes, sir, Mr. Riehlman.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. I hope that I am getting your statement clear that your intentions are to allow the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to administer this program.

Am I correct on that?

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Where does the Civil Defense group come in, and take authority, and who are we going to hold responsible for the property which is allocated to civil defense?

Colonel BROWN. This, I believe, is covered in the last paragraph on

page 2.

Mr. RICHLMAN. This is something that we do not have?

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir.

The Federal Civil Defense will be responsible and this will be done under our supervision. We will work very closely with the Depart

ment of Health, Education, and Welfare, and we will retain responsibility for the program.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. I got your statement correct, but Mr. Chairman, the problem which is bothering me is how you are going to have an effective working program where you have a scrambled operation.

I would like a clearer statement from someone from the Department as to exactly how you expect to accept this property from the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, and where you are going to pinpoint the responsibility from there on in caring for the property, and who is going to be responsible for requesting it to the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare?

Colonel BROWN. Well, under our plans that we have been discussing, we determine what surplus property is usable for civil-defense purposes.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. You will get that information from the different States, as to what they want?

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Of course, you would not be able to get that until after you had screened it, and knew what was available from the surplus stockpile.

Colonel BROWN. We will first have a list of all property in the United States that is available, and we will screen that, and then after it is screened, we will determine what portion of that is usable for our purposes. Then we will notify our regional offices and the States also will be notified through us, and other people, and then the State surplus officer, together with the State civil defense director, will determine what portion of this property the State civil defense director needs. Then our regional office will also have a hand in this.

They will see that the property is used for civil-defense purposes, and that sort of thing.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. You are talking about your regional offices? The New York Regional Office would be located at New York City under General Heubner?

Colonel BROWN. Well, our regional office is located at Newton Falls, Mass.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Would that take in New York State?

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir; that takes in New York.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. What other States does that regional office cover? Colonel BROWN. New York, Massachusets, and all of the Northeastern States.

Region No. 2 takes in the States around here, and region No. 3 takes in the Southeastern States.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. All of the needs for that area would flow to that regional office; is that right?

Colonel BROWN. Yes, sir. The regional office will know of them first, and they will acquaint the civil defense director of the different States with this property which is surplus.

Mr. RIEHLMAN. Then, where does it go from there?

Colonel BROWN. I presume that under the channels that we have, the surplus property officer of the State will be the man at the State level who will first have charge of this property, and then the State director will get it from him; that is, the State civil defense director. Mr. RIEHLMAN. Mr. Chairman, I suppose we had better develop it a little bit more before I pursue this question any further.

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Mr. BROOKS. Are there any questions, Mr. Reuss?

Mr. REUSS. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Krueger?

Mr. KRUEGER. No questions.

Mr. BROOKS. Gentlemen, I want to thank you very much for your discussion, and while you are here, Mr. Manning, do you have anything which you would like to add at this particular point?

Mr. MANNING. Nothing further, sir, at this point.

Mr. BROOKS. We want to thank you very much for your appear

ance.

Colonel BROWN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BROOKS. Gentlemen, I would like now to present Mr. William L. McGill, who is the civil defense administrator from Texas, and also president of the National Association of Civil Defense Directors. Mr. McGill has been very active in civil defense, and other related agencies in Texas for many years, and is a very distinguished citizen from my own State. I am pleased to present Mr. McGill.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM L. MCGILL, CIVIL DEFENSE ADMINISTRATOR FOR TEXAS, AND PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CIVIL DEFENSE DIRECTORS

Mr. MCGILL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I appreciate very much the opportunity of appearing in behalf of this bill.

This statement, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, is brief in its nature, and will present our position.

The National Association of State and Territorial Civil Defense Directors, of which I am president, is composed of the 55 civil defense directors of the States, Territories, and possessions of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

The association is represented here today by Lt. Gen. Clarance R. Huebner, director of the New York State Čivil Defense Commission; Mr. Sherley Ewing, first vice-president of the association and director of the Maryland Civil Defense Agency; Col. John J. Maginnis, regional vice president of the association, and director of the Civil Defense Agency of Massachusetts; and Dr. Richard Gerstell, director of civil defense of Pennsylvania, and myself, together with Mr. Thane Durey, deputy director of civil defense of Ohio.

At its last meeting on April 22, 1955, the association adopted unanimously the following resolution:

Be it resolved, That the National Association of State Civil Defense Directors reaffirm its interest in bringing about the amendment of the Federal Property Act to authorize the disposal of surplus property for civil defense purposes and its desire that S. 1527 and H. R. 4660 now pending before the respective Committees on Government Operations of the Congress be heard and acted upon during this session of the Congress; be it further

Resolved, That the president of the association respectfully request a hearing before the Committees on Government Operations on surplus property legislation so that the views of the civil-defense directors may be made known to the Congress.

The bipartisan commission headed by former President Herbert Hoover estimates that the United States Government now has surplus property valued at billions of dollars scattered throughout the world,

and that some of these goods are finding their way through "uncontrollable loopholes" into Communist hands, thereby "endangering American security."

Even if this alarming threat did not exist, there are some purely practical aspects of the situation regarding surplus property which we feel are impressive.

The cities, counties and parishes, States and Territories of the Nation are working very earnestly, in collaboration with the Federal Government, to develop adequate and realistic civil-defense and disaster-relief organizations without imposing insuperable burdens on the taxpayers.

With the new concepts of the destructive power of nuclear and thermonuclear weapons, the demands and the dimensions of the undertaking are growing to such an extent that our resources are severely taxed.

There are numerous items now surplus to the needs of the Armed Services such as litters, blankets, auxiliary generators, mass feeding units, vehicles, and emergency field equipment-which could be adapted to civil-defense and disaster-relief use, thereby contributing immeasurably to the public well-being.

This property was bought originally for the defense of the Nation. Now we are buying it again from surplus property dealers for the very same purpose.

An interesting example is the experience of the State of Connecticut in one transaction. The State purchased for civil-defense purposes 10,000 surplus Army litters, paying a private dealer $9.98 per litter, discovering later that the dealer had bought them at an Army sale for $4 each.

The State filed an application for Federal matching funds to cover one-half the purchase price, and the Federal Civil Defense Administration-very properly, we think-approved the request, giving the State $4.99 per litter. The Federal Government would have saved 99 cents per litter if it had donated the property to the State of Connecticut in the first place.

This type of procedure appears to us to be completely devoid of

reason.

This equipment is needed urgently to insure the safety of people, to protect property, and to preserve our human and economic resources. Having purchased these things with public funds once, it is incredible that we should have to pay for the same things again to accomplish a vital part of the original purpose.

The National Association of State and Territorial Civil Defense Directors therefore most respectfully and most earnestly petition the Congress to enact legislation necessary to include civil defense among the other worthy activities eligible to obtain property now surplus to the needs of the Armed Forces.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am very grateful for the opportunity to present this statement.

Mr. BROOKS. I want to thank you very much, Mr. McGill, and I wonder if you had any particular thoughts about the essential need for transferring directly from the Defense Department these specific items necessary for civil defense?