e a matter of an objective analysis, or do you have some eelings you want to share with us?

General HERRES. No. I know them all and have the pect and admiration for each. Of course, I worked wi Wickham and General Kelley when I was on the Joint S known General Welch for some time, as I have know Trost. He was in the class ahead of me at the Naval Aca I am sure it will be interesting. I am sure the first me he Chairman is out of town will be interesting. I do th was nice that you put into the law that the Vice Chair participate in the JCS meetings, and that gives us and to have some continuity for when the Chairman is not th But the Chiefs are not used to having a Vice Chai going to take some adjustment on the part of all, and I make that as easy as possible and be effective at the che latter being the higher priority, of course.

Chairman NUNN. I believe he anticipated that question General HERRES. No, but I have thought about it a l Chairman NUNN. The Chairman has authority to reo Joint Staff. Have you had a chance-I know you have be your present job-have you had a chance to talk to the about that reorganization and the extent to which he taken that and where it is going?

General HERRES. A little bit. And also the Chairma plained all of that in letters to all Commanders in Chief us posted from time to time on what is going on in the It is a big step. Really it is kind of a continuation of a that began several years ago under General Vessey-th ment of the J-7 and J-8. I know General Vessey was a ious to find ways to develop other approaches to the de of joint tactics, doctrine and techniques, and also to pl significant role in the acquisition and the Defense Resou proceedings and activities.

You recall that you all authorized several years ago tonal spaces for what was called a SPRAA, and that S evolved into one of the directorates under this new set that arrangement goes a long way toward implementi the intent of the new law as well.

it, it tends to strike a better balance, in changing times, the two chains of command, the resource management a structuring chain of command, and the operational and ment chain of command.

I do think, as I told the Nichols subcommittee last year, portant to still keep some daylight between those two d command, and I think that if you get the CINCs into the management and force structuring business, you may b daylight a little bit. That could be dangerous, too, becau are some good reasons for having that daylight.

Furthermore, one has to consider that, as has been said you let every commander in chief design his service de component the way he wants it, you will have seven ar seven navies and seven air forces. And we cannot afford th Chairman NUNN. How do you read the law? Do you thi is daylight left under the law?

General HERRES. Yes, sir. I think it is a good balance. Chairman NUNN. Do you think the proper balance struck, at least as far as you see now?

General HERRES. It is too soon to tell. The things that a law now have to jell. The concrete has to set around th what kind of a job we do in the next 3 to 5 years will prob vide the answer to your question-the unwritten answer question. And I accept the challenge to try and help mak happen, too.

I think you have given us the tools with which to do th is now left to happen is the natural evolutionary stren You can feed the other (joint) chain of command, but the have to be formed, and that is the job that lies ahead.

Chairman NUNN. We are having a series of hearings on strategy and I think almost everybody who has testified, they are a part of the military or civilian or whether former officials, have concluded that in this administratio as previous administrations, Republican and Democratic, not had as much in the way of strategic thinking as we n lieve that is a fair summary of what people have said.

Do you have any views about the role of the Chairman Chairman and the Joint Staff in evolving and updating tary strategy and what we call net assessment?

General HERRES. Of course, there will be a significant ro in the net assessment role. Part of the reorganizati

objectives, and the objectives are sometimes a little m defined than they need to be to develop a clearly etch But it will be a big job.

Chairman NUNN. I agree.

One question we require of all of our nominees to g answer on—and this comes from the leadership of the you agree to appear before this committee or any othe of Congress and answer all questions put to you by th General HERRES. Yes, sir; I do.

Chairman NUNN. General, I think you will do a sup as soon as we can muster up a quorum, we will plan vote. I think you are well qualified for what I consider very important position that has a tremendous amount bility and authority, Your position will have almost as with the success of this Reorganization Act as the Cha self.

I say "almost," the Chairman has got a huge respon yours is going to be a very, very large responsibility, I your background and your experience indicates that y qualified for the task.

So we wish you luck and we hope you will stay in Our committee plans to continue to give oversight over nization. We know it is a long-term process. We are n miracles overnight, but we are going to pay a great dea what is transpiring and be interested in developments.

Well, let me instruct staff that we will have a meet the two votes. We will have a meeting. We have to other business that we announced we were going to order of recognition, and we will try to get a quorum between the two votes.

Senator Warner suggests that we meet in the office dent Pro Tempore if we can arrange that. So we wil area and have a quorum. If we do, General, we will try your nomination.

Senator WARNER. Mr. Chairman, as we close, I thin all note that this position bears much of your wisdom matur of that, and we do hope it works.

Chairman NUNN. If it works, I will accept the accolad [Whereupon, at 2:45 p.m, the hearing was adjourned.]

[The nomination of Gen. Robert T. Herres was reported to the Senate by the Committee on Armed Services on January 29, 1987, with the recommendation that the nomination be confirmed. The nomination was confirmed by the Senate on January 29, 1987.]

NOMINATION OF ROBERT B. COSTELLO TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR ACQUISITION AND LOGISTICS

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1987

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

Washington, DC.

The committee met, in open session, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., in room SR-222, Russell Senate Office Building, Senator Sam Nunn (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Nunn, Exon, Levin, Bingaman, Dixon, Shelby, Warner and Quayle.

Staff present: Arnold L. Punaro, staff director; Carl M. Smith, staff director for the minority; Jeffrey H. Smith, general counsel; Patrick A. Tucker, minority counsel; Andrew S. Effron, counsel; Jonathan L. Etherton, John J. Hamre, George K. Johnson, Jr., Kent Bankus, James R. Locher III, and David S. Lyles, professional staff members; Pamela G. Powell, staff assistant.

Also present: Jeffrey B. Subko, assistant to Senator Exon; Peter Levine, assistant to Senator Levin; Edward M. McGaffigan, Jr., assistant to Senator Bingaman; Charles C. Smith, assistant to Senator Dixon; Jim Sayer, assistant to Senator Wirth; Terrence Lynch, assistant to Senator Shelby; Jeffrey Hyche, assistant to Senator Shelby; Henry D. Sokolski, assistant to Senator Quayle; Alan Ptak, assistant to Senator Gramm; and Bill Wight, assistant to Senator Warner.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SAM NUNN, CHAIRMAN

Chairman NUNN. This morning we need to consider the nomination of Robert B. Costello to be the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Logistics.

Dr. Costello, we welcome you here this morning. We understand you have your family with you. We are delighted to have them. Is your wife with you?

Dr. COSTELLO. Yes. she is.

Chairman NUNN. We are delighted to have you this morning.

Dr. Costello is well qualified for the position that he has been nominated for, with an extensive background in dealing with similar procurement-type issues at General Motors. That experience will be sorely tested because the problems in defense acquisition are serious and certainly merit attention. We have heard many stories about many procurement problems, coffee pots costing $7,000,

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