The committee met, in open session, pursuant to n p.m., in room SR-222 Russell Senate Office Building, Nunn (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Nunn, Exon, Dixon, Gore, War and McCain.

Staff present: Arnold L. Punaro, staff director; Ca staff director for the minority; Romie L. Brownlee, dep staff director; Patrick A. Tucker, minority counsel; Dauth, chief clerk; Robert G. Bell, Richard D. Finn, J Hoehn, Jr., George K. Johnson, Jr., James R. Locher Lyles, and Mark B. Robinson, professional staff mem M. Turner, staff assistant.

Also present: Jeffrey B. Subko, assistant to Se Charles C. Smith, assistant to Senator Dixon; Milton sistant to Senator Glenn; Henry D. Sokolski, assistan Quayle; Mark J. Albrecht, assistant to Senator Wils Ptak, assistant to Senator Gramm.

OPENING STATEMENT BY SENATOR SAM NUNN, C Chairman NUNN. The hearing will come to order. T meets this afternoon to begin consideration of the n General Herres of the United States Air Force to s Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

General, we welcome you here today. This is a ve position, and we are delighted that you are here with we are going to implement the reorganization legisl important respect.

The committee will have a number of questions f sure that the creation of the position of Vice Chairman Chiefs was one of the most important provisions of th Nichols Department of Defense Reorganization Act of

The Congress established high standards of perform ence and expertise for an officer to serve as Vice Cha Joint Chiefs of Staff, and certainly we will want to background and so forth and the kind of joint experien to this important position.

unity of exort by all Armed Forces une Army, Navy, Air F Marine Corps have retained a degree of independence that tinually frustrated such coordination. As a special stud commissioned in 1982 by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs ed" and this is Goldwater quoting from that study: "A amount of service independence is healthy and desirable. balance now favors the parochial interests of the services t and the larger needs of the Nation's defense too little."

Continuing quoting Senator Goldwater: "This statem President, is absolutely correct. The three military dep and four services exercise power and influence which a proportion to their statuory duties. Planning is not comple fied, and combatant commands are not singly led and pre fight as one, regardless of service. This fundamental proble balance of organizational power underlies the major de that have persisted during the last 45 years."

The Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff will pla cal role in helping to establish a more appropriate balance joint and service power and influence. Key among the Vi man's responsibilities will be assisting the Chairman in out his many joint duties and providing improved emphasi perspectives in defense decision making and management. General Herres, I trust that you fully understand the e responsibilities that will be placed on you when you are c in this job and the great expectations that the Congress a sure, the executive branch officials and the present Sec Defense have in terms of your ability and your responsibili Senator Warner.

Senator WARNER. Mr. Chairman, I have known the nor some time and he has my support. At the appropriate ti ask questions.

[The prepared statement of Senator Dixon follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT BY SENATOR ALAN J. DIXON

Mr. Chairman, we are here today to consider and act on the nominat Robert T. Herres, USAF to serve as the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chi The position of Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was creat gress last year after much discussion of the defense reorganization bill. Y former chairman Senator Goldwater argued very hard for this position ported both of you in creating the position.

General Herres has served in many positions during his Air Force ca clude his present position, as commander in chief of the North American

Janua

Ordered, that the following nomination be referred to the Committ Services:

The following named officer under the provisions of Title 10, United Section 154, to be Vice Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff:

To be Vice Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

Gen. Robert T. Herres, United States Air Force.

[The biographical sketch of Gen. Robert T. Herres, transmitted to the committee at the time the nominati ferred, follows:]

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF GEN. ROBERT T. HERRES, U.S. AIR F General Robert T. Herres is Commander in Chief, North American fense Command, and the United States Space Command, headquartere Air Force Base, Colo.

General Herres was born Dec. 1, 1932, in Denver where he attend School. He graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis, holds master's degrees in Electrical Engineering and Public Admini the Air Force Institute of Technology and the George Washington U has been awarded an honorary Doctor of Engineering degree from the Institute of Technology. He is also a graduate of the Air Command and and the Industrial College of the Armed Forces.

General Herres began his flying career in fighter-interceptors, w from the Aerospace Research Pilot School, served as chief of the Flig sion with the Manned Orbiting Laboratory Program, and later moved and aerial refueling aircraft operations in the Strategic Air Comm Herres has also performed duties as an intelligence analyst, in system and acquisition, and in communications operations; has commanded wing, an air refueling wing, the Air Force Communications Command Air Command's Eighth Air Force. As Commander of the Air Force Co Command, he was responsible for the development, installation and w ation of all Air Force communications, ground radars and air traffic ices. As Commander of the Eighth Air Force, General Herres comma cant portion of our Nation's nuclear deterrent-to include B-52s, FB-1 fueling tanker aircraft, and Minuteman and Titan missiles. Prior to present duties, he served as Director for Command, Control and Co Systems in the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

General Herres now serves as Commander in Chief of the bi-na American Aerospace Defense Command and as the first Commander i United States Space Command. In these capacities, he is responsible space defense of North America, and for ensuring that military space quately support national command authorities and U.S. forces worldwi General Herres is a command pilot, and is qualified for the seni traffic controller and space badges.

tant position, it is a position I would not have actively so this for two reasons.

First and most important is that my duties as Com Chief of North American Aerospace Command and Com Chief of the United States Space Command occupy my tion and interest. I was honored to have been given the r ity to bring into existence the new Unified Space Comm also gratified to be able to serve our binational North Am liance with Canada as the Commander in Chief of NORA pectation was, of course, that I would continue to serv roles until such time as I left active service, and I had very full and important agenda for the remaining 21⁄2 ye my mandatory retirement.

The second reason is that I harbor no illusions whatso the challenging difficulties of discharging the duties the Chairman will entail. The new law represents a change our country organizes its senior military leadership. W see such change as promoting growth or improvement. always others who tend to see it merely as creating tur trauma.

However this new post is viewed, it must be seen as a challenge, and I think you have already emphasized that Mr. Chairman. Nonetheless, I consider creation of the man position as a necessary and important step in the e our defense structure with the changing times, and I honored to have been nominated to you for that offic that you might be interested in knowing why I feel this so important.

All of my military experience particularly the ti spent on the Air Staff and the Joint Staff, as well as t Commander in Chief-has led me to conclude that the O the Joint Chiefs of Staff needs help. I testified to this b the Nichols subcommittee last year. Among other Chairman is responsible for advising the Secretary and dent on a broad range of military activities, as you all well, from requirements definition and development all deployment of military forces.

In the past few years, it seems to me it has become i difficult, if not impossible, for the Chairman to discha verse responsibilities by himself. The new law not only e responsibility of the Chairman and his opportunities t

Chairman and his vice. Each of us, I suspect, will bri combinations of the various necessary ingredients to th there will be different approaches with each combinati make it possible for them to be complementary.

Thus, aside from the specific responsiblity as a stan Chairman in his absence, my principal role should be, help the Chairman simply by picking up the reins whe my services will be the most helpful. If I can do that w no doubt in my mind that the purposes for creating this the law will have been well-served; that is, a greater jointness in the operational employment of our military be achieved.

While all of this takes place, the role of the Joint Ch continues, in my view, to bear an importance that mus ish or suffer emasculation. Among the many key roles the corporate body, each of the Chiefs constitutes a uni tween the force structuring and resource manageme command of his service department and the Secretary's chain to the combatant commanders of the unified a commands. That, too, is a process that begs facilitation tainly recognized as an important role for the Chairma ence of a Vice Chairman and the continuity he can pro catalyze that process.

Again, I consider myself singularly honored to come as the President's first nominee for this unique role. I as my duties begin to jell, somewhere among them wi portunities to appear before you on behalf of the Chair with issues of interest. I look forward to working with collectively strive to provide the force structure and th al capabilities that are the basic ingredients of our nat ty in this turbulent world.

I am now prepared to address your questions, Mr. Cha Chairman NUNN. Thank you very much. I think you captured the intent of the legislation, as far as your cerned, very well.

General, Title 10 requires that the officer appoint Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, specifically the man, must have the joint specialty and must have s least one joint assignment as a general or flag officer.