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There are a lot more exciting things that can be done with them which I can't go into today. The intensity is very great, too.

Mr. McCORMACK. You said it was pulsating. If you had a lot of electrons, would it not be continuous?

Dr. KANE. Yes.

Mr. McCORMACK If it pulsed, the pulse length is short but the interval between pulses is also short, unless you have a large machine? Dr. KANE. If you have a large machine, the time is pretty long. Mr. McCORMACK. What is this used for?

Dr. KANE. Almost anything that you need a very intense light source for. The whole business of understanding the energetics of how molecules take up and give off their energy is one example. Another example is looking for what is called low angle scattering. This refers to things in the lattice of a material that deform it only slightly, but are important. With low angie scattering, you find out where these deformities are and what they represent.

Since the wavelength is so short and intense, the light source will enable us to reduce the size of microcircuitry.

A fellow out at Stanford is looking at the role of metal atoms in biosynthesis. This is done by studying a very complicated molecule containing two molybdenum atoms. Synchrotron radiation enables him to identify those two atoms and their spacing very precisely. Those are the sort of things that are impossible to do with conventional light sources.

Mr. MCCORMACK. Thank you very much, Jim. I appreciate that. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we have taken almost 2 hours for this hearing.

It is very interesting. I apologize for having to go out a few minutes myself.

This afternoon at 1 p.m. we will have outside witnesses on high energy physics and then an ERDA witness on energy conservation. Thank you very much.

Dr. KANE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. McCORMACK. We stand adjourned until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

AFTERNOON SESSION

Mr. McCORMACK. The meeting will come to order, please.

We now have since 1 o'clock obtained authorization to meet during the time the House is in session. We responded to a quorum call and then came over here. So now we're a little bit tardy, but happy we have a chance at all.

I'd like to start the hearing today as a continuation of the discussion of the high-energy physics projects that are presently being considered and projects and facilities that we already have.

We have three witnesses: Dr. Wolfgang Panofsky from SLAC; Dr. George Vineyard from Brookhaven; and Dr. Robert Wilson from Fermi. I wonder if you gentlemen care to come up to the table and join us.

Jim, would you like to come up and sit in on this? Is Jim Kane here? Why don't you come up and sit in with us? We'll let you act as a conscience for the other three witnesses.

[Laughter.]

98-428 O-78-9

Mr. McCORMACK. I should start out by observing that Dr. Andelin and I have just been presented with a copy of a book called "The Key to the Universe" by Nigel Calder. I have checked this out and found that its value is less than $50, so we can receive it. However, I'm sure the information is worth millions of dollars, and now I'm going to read this and I'm going to know all about charmed and colored quarks, and then I'll be as confusing as the other people who talk on the subject.

[Laughter.]

Mr. McCORMACK. Have you gentlemen arrived at any particular order of presentation here today? Dr. Kane is going to watch at the present time.

We'll start with Dr. Panofsky, because I have him at the top of the list, then.

Dr. PANOFSKY. Yes.

Mr. McCORMACK. Please go ahead.

STATEMENT OF DR. WOLFGANG K. H. PANOFSKY, STANFORD LINEAR ACCELERATOR

Dr. PANOFSKY. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I consider it a great privilege to be able to testify before your committee, and hope that these remarks, prepared on short notice, will be useful to your deliberations.

The health of high-energy physics is generally excellent. The last 2 years have produced a veritable explosion of new information which indicates that there exist new entities within the fundamental particles of matter whose profound implications we can only surmise.

On the one hand, the recent discoveries have increased the numbers of what we conjecture to be the fundamental building blocks of matter. On the other hand, those results have brought us nearer to a unified understanding of the various forces which seem to govern the behavior of matter on the subnuclear scale.

The recent discoveries have drawn their strength from the three major centers of high-energy physics in the United States-Brookhaven National Laboratory, Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, and the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center-and I believe that the continued vitality of all three centers is essential to maintaining this high productivity in relation to the level of support the field has received.

Let me explain what I mean by that last remark. I am including a chart and I would like to project that-which shows the level of support received, expressed in fiscal year 1978 constant dollars in Western Europe compared to that of the United States.

Mr. McCORMACK. Now I know who I was quoting this morning, and I apologize for not giving you the appropriate credit.

Dr. PANOFSKY. You will note that there has been a substantial decline since fiscal year 1969 until fiscal year 1975 with a gradual increase in total support over the last 2 years since that time.

Although comparison of the European and U.S. funding is subject to a variety of interpretations, depending on fluctuating exchange rates and similar matters, it is clear that by comparison U.S. funding is considerably less while the research output is impressively

competitive. Nearly 100 institutions throughout the United States are participants in this most basic field of science, while the number of centers where major research instruments are available has contracted from what was seven in 1967 to what will probably be only three within 2 years.

I believe that this contraction should not be permitted to go further. We need the diversity of operational styles, technological character of available instruments, and regional access, which the remaining three centers provide. I urge caution in applying the usual economy of size arguments in concluding that the work in highenergy physics should be concentrated in even fewer centers.

Productivity in research is difficult to measure by a simple index and the diversity of approaches has been a dominant factor in having made high-energy physics the highly productive and efficient enterprise as manifested by the knowledge explosion of the last few years. To maintain the health of each laboratory, it is necessary to maintain a reasonable balance between the exploitation of the existing facilities and replacing older apparatus with new instruments giving new opportunities. The operation of accelerators and their efficient exploitation for research is expensive. The total cost of construction of each accelerator tends to be spent again within 2 to 5 years of operation in terms of the cost of operations and research equipment. Therefore, it is false economy to defer unduly new initiatives which can rejuvenate the productiveness of one of the three major centers.

Specifically, I believe that construction of a proton-proton storage ring in the highest energy consistent with the state-of-the-art at Brookhaven should be supported. I note that the High Energy Physics Advisory Panel of ERDA's Division of Physical Research has supported the construction of this installation since fiscal year 1977.

Let me turn now to giving you a brief progress report on PEP, now under construction under the joint responsibility of SLAC and the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory of the University of California.

The construction team has been fully assembled, including an able architectural-engineering management firm. The first support buildings are under construction and geological studies are almost complete. Models of most of the critical subsystems are operating. It appears now that there is an excellent chance that the completion date originally targeted for April 1980 might be advanced to October 1979.

Achieving this goal would be highly desirable, since construction of a facility in Western Europe in Hamburg, Germany, having similar operating characteristics started 1 year in advance of our schedule.

We have received an excess of first-rate research proposals and proposals for incorporating facilities at PEP, incorporating many ingenious, innovative ideas designed to exploit the new facility.

Capital equipment of the type involved in these proposals is an integral part of the research exploitation of high energy physics and provides essential experimental facilities which can support a variety of users at the different research centers. It will be difficult indeed, in fact agonizing, to decide among the major meritorious competing proposals for the use of PEP, originating from many parts of the country, by the deadline we have set for ourselves which is April or May of this year. This situation illustrates the general problem foreseen in sup

port of the high energy physics community from all parts of the Nation.

The expanded opportunities at Brookhaven provided through construction of Isabelle permit exploration in detail of the highest energy collision processes. This facility is an essential element in ameliorating the overload by the entire community on the facilities in the 1980's.

To summarize, Mr. Chairman, I consider the state of high energy physics to be a healthy one. High energy physics continues to demonstrate one of the most basic aspirations of man which is a quest for understanding of the basic building blocks of matter. Surely, with such understanding will man be in a better position to cope with the many questions which technology and the natural environment thrust upon us.

The program in support of high energy physics has been a shrinking one except for the last few years. But, in spite of that shrinkage, productivity has remained competitive by virtue of investments from the past and through diversity of approach and opportunities. There are certain needs which must be met for this enviable record to continue. I have full confidence that with cooperation among all parties concerned these new insights from high energy physics will continue to surprise and enlighten us.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. McCORMACK. Thank you, Dr. Panofsky.

Rather than ask individual questions now, let us proced with the other testimony and then we'll have questions for all three of you at

once.

Dr. Vineyard, do you want to proceed, since you're second on my list?

STATEMENT OF DR. GEORGE VINEYARD, BROOKHAVEN
NATIONAL LABORATORY

Dr. VINEYARD. Thank you, Mr. McCormack.

First, I should like to express my sincere thanks to the chairman of this committee, Mr. McCormack, for his interest in high energy physics and for the opportunity that he has provided for a presentation of issues in this most important field before this committee.

It's a privilege to appear here to present my views on a basic and important project in this field. I should remark also, following up on Dr. Panofsky's remarks, that the United States has long enjoyed a forefront position in high energy physics with a plurality of eminent laboratories, and a remarkable array of facilities.

The Brookhaven National Laboratory has been a key part of the effort, and has been the major eastern center for U.S. high energy physics since 1952. University teams from all areas have worked there, using our 2 major facilities. Initially, there was the 3 GeV Cosmotron, the first machine in the world to exceed 1 GeV; the second was the 33 GeV Alternating Gradient Synchrotron, or AGS.

Among the many important discoveries made at Brookhaven, I mention here just two: The principle of alternating gradient focusing, which has made all accelerators of very high energy possible, was

made there about 1953. The J/4 particle was discovered in late 1974 at Brookhaven and simultaneously at SLAC, and was recognized just last year by the award of the Nobel Prize to its codiscoverers, Dr. Samuel Ting and Dr. Burton Richter.

As the next logical step in the national program of High Energy Physics, and as a key part of the worldwide effort, we are proposing to build a new accelerator, known as Isabelle. This takes advantage of the colliding beam principle to bring high-energy protons into collision with high-energy protons moving in the opposite direction, thereby providing center-of-mass, or effective energies very much higher than those available anywhere else in the world.

The basic design of Isabelle provides an energy of at least 200 GeV in each proton beam, thus at least 400 GeV in the center-of-mass system for the proton-proton collisions. Our design is conservative, and I emphasize that 200 GeV is a minimum value, and the actual energy may be substantially higher.

Continuing research will be directed to finding ways to push this energy as much higher as possible, consistent with the state of the art at the time the machine is constructed. The machine will consist of two interlaced rings in which protons are accumulated, accelerated, and stored, and which are fed by protons from the AGS at an initial energy of 30 GeV. The rings intersect in six places at which experiments with the products of the collisions will be performed.

The most significant aspect of Isabelle is its uniquely high center-of-mass energy. To provide an equal center-of-mass energy-that is 400 GeV—when a moving proton strikes a proton at rest, the moving proton would need an energy of approximately 100,000 GeV.

A second important characteristic of Isabelle is the rate at which collisions will occur. This rate, in each intersection, will be some 50 times larger than the rate in the only other proton-proton colliding beam facility which exists, the ISR at CERN, where the center-ofmass energy is 60 GeV.

For the observation of the unusual particles and the rare phenomena expected at these high energies, this high rate is essential. The six different experimental areas will provide the capability for conducting some 8 to 12 experiments simultaneously. Thus, Isabelle will be a facility at which a large number of experimenters, from diverse institutions, will be served. This will insure the rapid and costeffective exploitation of the machine.

With Isabelle, physicists will be able to probe more deeply the so-called strong interactions which hold together all the massive particles of the universe. There is growing evidence that the proton and other similar particles have a grainy structure, now popularly explained in terms of "quarks" and "gluons."

Related to this picture are the striking observations at CERN and Fermilab of a cross section for proton on proton which rises with energy at the highest energies now available.

Another important observation made at existing facilities is the production of various kinds of particles with large components of momentum at right angles to the axis of the collision. Higher energies are needed to understand the reasons for these phenomena.

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