you did not create, somebody else created it, well, I guess through the years we have created boundaries. But at one time, between Mexico and the United States there was not that boundary because all of the southwest belonged to Mexico and President Polk at the time started the war with Mexico not because of the Alamo, as people thought, but because he had determined that our sphere of influence was from the east coast to the west coast and he was more concerned with England of all people dominating the west coast by eventually capturing California, Oregon and Washington and they did get a part of it, which now we know is a part of Canada.

But he started this false war over an incident that they created at the Alamo to move on Mexico and thereby gaining all of the southwest which was at one point in time more than a third of what was Mexico at the time. And there was no boundary-people moved back and forth across it.

Even one time back in 1924, we eliminated the boundary ourselves by not requiring any proof or passport to cross back and forth across that border and people were allowed to come and go as they felt.

And when Kiki de la Garza at this Spanish heritage dinner was presenting his statement to the Hispanic people that were thereHispanic and non-Hispanic-he got up and he said, "You know, when I was a little kid, I went into school and I learned to say the Pledge of Allegiance. And at the end of the Pledge of Allegiance, it said Justice for all.' And I had just started school. And pretty soon, I found out there was not justice for all." And he says, "But I kept saying it hoping some day we would accomplish it." He says when he got old enough to go in the service during World War II, he was caused to say an oath of pledging allegiance to the United States again, and again the reference to justice for all and still he saw no justice for all.

And he went on through a series of these and when you were talking right now, I could not help but remember that because so many times we have said in the past and through treaties that you talk about-the 1855 Treaty-many of the treaties have been broken and much of the Indian land has been stolen.

In South Dakota, we have the Sioux Indians who were robbed of their land for the gold that was on it. Now, they just want a portion of that land back that is not used by the Federal Government, not used by the State government, not used by any private individual. They are not asking for that land that has been sold or traded. What they are asking for is unused land and yet we have the Representatives from that State who will not fight for them and, in fact, rather strenuously object to anybody else offering, realizing that is political dynamite for them for anybody else to offer it.

But I guess what you have done is brought out my frustrations with the promises we make over the years and years and now that I am in Federal Government, coming from a very poor background, I was one of a family of ten raised through the depression-I was born in 1929. Two incidents happened that year that I was born: the Valentine's Day Massacre and the stock market crash. I guess that is why my life has led me in the direction it has.

I am very frustrated here, that we meet many times in meetings like this and we try to show and encourage hope for the people and we go back to Washington and we have a very hard time convincing other Senators and other Congressmen that there is a great need here and that if we are going to empower people rather than disenfranchise people, we have to provide the monies and we have to provide the incentive and we have to provide the structure which many times and in many cases I see the people providing for themselves.

I am very encouraged by things and initiatives that the Indian nations have taken onto themselves with very little help from the Federal Government to encourage their own nation to prosper and that has been a big help to me in the frustrations that I have had. But I want to tell you that I was very moved by your testimony because it brings back so many things. And I want to commit to you now-I do not know how successful we will be increasing the funding, but we are going to work very hard to increase that funding.

MS. PINTADO. Thank you very much.

Senator ADAMS. Thank you, Congressman Martinez.

Chairman MARTINEZ. I do have one question of Gloria because I think it is very important that we understand this. You wear two hats and I would like to know from your perspective the traditional relationship between Title III services to the general aging population and Title VI services provided for the Native Americans.

Are there linkages and are there funding linkages that you can provide better services?

MS. PICARD. With the added funding, we can provide the minimal services but financially we are better off then just the Title VI agencies. The linkages-we do have to deal with all of the regulations that come down from Title III that our people are not familiar with, our elders are not. And it causes sort of a conflict within the programs. We need the funding yet we are not able to operate it to fit. And I think that barrier needs to be taken down, that they need to-we need to be able to deliver Title III-our services paid for with Title III funding in a way that is culturally accepted by our client population.

Chairman MARTINEZ. I would like to work with you in maybe trying to formulate some kind of language we can put in the bill to accomplish that or in report language give the Administration on Aging the understanding that we should attempt to do this in these particular cases.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Senator.

Senator ADAMS. Thank you very much, Congressman.

Both you, Ms. Picard, and you, Mr. Olney, mentioned positives and negatives about your designation as area agencies on aging.

Do you think the positives outweigh the negatives? And in what ways? In other words, you were actually designated under this. Do you think that that is the way you would like to have it continue or would you just rather use Title VI rather than trying to mix these two?

Mr. OLNEY. Senator, we have no problems in regard to Title VI. But in Title III, as I stated earlier, we do have some difficulties

with too much administration and paperwork which is very time consuming.

What I would like to see and my people would like to see, regardless of the resource allocation methodology-I hope perhaps the Commissioner would have some input-that we could sit down as tribes and work out something that would be more feasible in regards to direct funding for my Native Americans.

Senator ADAMS. What are your expectations regarding the Associate Commissioner, Dr. Jackson?

You have had a chance now-she has been here, you have seen her. We know almost nothing about her yet-do you have great expectations? Do you have some expectations that you can break through some of the barriers at the administrative level?

Mr. OLNEY. Yes, sir. Senator, we certainly do. Her being a Native American and having an excellent background, academic background, and for the faith that was placed in this commissioneryou might say small miracles can happen. Small miracles on the way of happening in regards to better services. We spend much of our time in our lobbying efforts, for example, on our trips to Washington, DC in regards to try and secure funding.

Now, if we know that in all due respect that the Commissioner would have a great amount of input working on a formula to assure that our elders get this funding, that would be great and that is what we would like to see.

But, Senator, if I may be allowed to make one short comment in regards to one of my tribal members that is very ill. In keeping with the tribe's values, customs and traditions, religiously we all in our own dignified way we pray for the returned health of Dave So Happy. He is very ill at this time and we do have many of our religious leaders visiting him and praying very deeply and our whole reservation is praying deeply for him. But perhaps when you go back to Washington, the other Washington, maybe perhaps you might put out a news release in regards to requesting prayer for not only Mr. David So Happy but my young people that are in hospitals and my elders that sometimes have to go to nursing homes, to pray for the sacred land of the Yakima and my people. And I thank you, sir.

Senator ADAMS. Thank you very much, Ray. I am very concerned about David and I have visited his home, as you know, and all of his family and I weep for what has happened to him and we will do all that we can. I appreciate your telling me that because we will immediately be contacting them again to see if we can be helpful. Thank you all very much for your testimony. It was excellent. Please understand we are deeply concerned about the members of the tribe who are not on the reservation. Over 40 years ago, Sebastian Williams and I worried about the Siletz and their problems and I appreciate your problems and I hope to be helping you.

Ms. PINTADO. We have the Indian Clinic, the Indian Health Board, we have United Indians that could do a lot more for us if they had funding.

Thank you.

Senator ADAMS. Our next panel is Ms. Betty White, Mr. James DeLaCruz and Dr. Gilbert Towner.

While you are coming up, I will tell you who the parties are.

Ms. Betty White is a member of the Yakima Indian Nation. She has been involved in Indian aging issues for more than 16 years. She is currently chairperson of the Washington State Indian Council on Aging and Acting Project Director of Advocates for Tribal Elders.

Mr. James DeLaCruz is a member of the Quinault Indian Nation and has served as Quinault Senior Citizens Program Coordinator for the past six years. He has been Vice Chairman of the Washington State Council on Aging since 1986 and last August he was elected Vice Chairman of the National Association of the Title VI Grantees. I have known Mr. DeLaCruz for many, many years and I am delighted to have you with us today.

Mr. Gilbert Towner is the Portland Area Representative to the Board of Directors of the National Indian Council on Aging. His jurisdiction includes Washington State. NICOA has represented many of the Title VI funded tribes over the years and has been a principal voice on behalf of older Indians. NICOA's work has been the main force behind the important and numerous changes made in the 1987 OAA amendments. Dr. Towner has been a personal advocate for Indian elders ever since he was a child. Mr. Towner belongs to the Siletz Tribe.

Why don't we start-since you are in the middle-with you, Mrs. White; we will be pleased to hear your testimony. And, as with all the witnesses, if you wish to summarize your testimony and place it in the record, the Chair will be happy to receive it.

STATEMENT OF BETTY WHITE, CHAIR, WASHINGTON STATE INDIAN COUNCIL ON AGING, ACTING PROJECT DIRECTOR, ADVOCATES FOR TRIBAL ELDERLY

MS. WHITE. Senator Brock Adams and Congressman Matthew Martinez, Associate Commissioner on Aging Yvonne Jackson, and distinguished members of this audience, welcome to the Yakima Indian Nation and allow me to thank you for the opportunity to speak about the needs and concerns of the Indian elders of this State.

First of all, the Washington State Indian Council was organized in 1981 due to the fact that an elderly lady from a small tribe in western Washington expressed concern that the needs of those smaller tribes were not being met, that they felt that the Yakima and Colvilles had an open line of communication to State and national levels and they were being left out. Therefore, the National Indian Council on Aging assisted many elders from many tribes in organizing the Washington State Indian Council on Aging. And I am glad to say that I am happy to be working with them.

There are 14 Title VI programs in the State of Washington for the last ten years: three in eastern Washington, eleven in western Washington. I would like to let you know that these Title VI programs provide bare bones nutrition services, home delivered frozen meals-elderly do not care for frozen meals and miss the socializa

tion.

There is very little or no funds for supportive services such as transportation, information and referral, minor home repairs or in

home health care. Many of these tribes have had to work under heavy burdens but they have still provided services to their elderly.

Title V, senior employment. We have no available Title V slots for Title VI grantees. Elders are a proud people who, if they cannot earn their way, will go without and many have done so.

Title VI-prior national Title VI training conferences gave Title VI directors and staff the opportunity to build a national informational network and to share information on their programs.

We also hear that AOA has formed an interagency task force on older Indians. The Washington State Indian Council on Aging asks that the task force listen not only to the Indian area agencies on aging to gain input on improvements of communications between Federal agencies but that they should hear from Title VI grantees and national Indian organizations such as National Association of Title VI Grantees, National Conference of American Indians, National Community Health Representatives Program, Urban Indian Centers, Advocates for Tribal Elderly, and the National Indian Council on Aging.

Senator ADAMS. Let me stop you there for just a minute, Ms. White. Do you think that the existing group, of which you are a part and which has been organized, could perhaps fulfill that function? One of the things that always concerns me is that very often we form a new group when we could expand an existing group or use an existing group and save a great deal of time and gain a great deal of experience. I am not saying that is true here; I was asking that as a question.

MS. WHITE. Well, I think we need to expand all of these groups. They all represent different parts of Indian country. And I think that because they are national Indian organizations that they can coordinate their efforts with people who work with elderly programs, even if they are Indian organizations, they usually do not work with Indian aging programs so they assume to know what an elderly needs without really including the elderly concerns or their input.

Senator ADAMS. Thank you. I did not mean to interrupt you but I wanted to clarify that point before we went on.

Chairman MARTINEZ. Might I

Senator ADAMS. Please. Go ahead.

Chairman MARTINEZ. The one thing you said, the last thing-the last statement you made saying that they really do not know the elderly. One of the things that I was thinking about because I have a friend who is head of gerontology at USC, is that so many times people providing the services are not required to have anybody on staff that has any certificate of gerontology or anything else that really gives them either through education and background experience the real knowledge they need to deal with particular and special problems of the elderly.

Do you think that if that were a requirement for somebody in these agencies or preference being given in hiring the people that have a certificate of completion of gerontology studies would help?

Ms. WHITE. Well, I do not have a certificate of gerontology but my main concern has been the Indian elderly for a great many years, starting with my grandmother and now my mother.