are going to have to be served under a loan program. I want to know, out of the 6 million, how many million are going to have to have a loan from some source in order to go to college. I know that you cannot give me an exact answer, but we certainly ought to be able to have rough limits. If you cannot answer Senator Javits' question, let us start with that block of students. How many of those are there, and then how are we going to meet their financial needs? That is what the Senator is really asking about. Senator JAVITS. What is your ordinary market and how will we meet it? Senator MORSE. How many, in rough estimate, do you gentlemen think are going to have to have financial assistance by way of a loan from some source to enter college? Mr. MUIRHEAD. Mr. Chairman, I think, in order to answer the question, I would have to set it in terms of priorities. First, there would be those students who have to have loans, from families of low income. This subcommittee has supported the NDEA loan program since its inception with the objective in mind that, without this loan, these young people would not be able to go to college. Senator MORSE. Absolutely right. FIRST PRIORITY LOAN NEEDS Mr. MUIRHEAD. That number has been running rather consistently, since the start of the NDEA program, in the neighborhood of 6 to 10 percent of the college population. We have figures to indicate that the NDEA loans go predominantly to students from low-income families. Senator MORSE. Help me just a moment at this point. We have not, have we, under the NDEA program made available loans to all those that need loans in order to go to college? The NDEA program has not been all inclusive? The very terms of the NDEA program have eliminated a certain body of students, not that they were not eligible, but the funds were not available to them. What the Senator from New York is trying to find out is: How much money are we going to have to have, so that we do not deny any young man or woman in this country a college education opportunity if she or he has the ability to go to college. I want to know that figure. The 6- to 10-percent figure that you are using, I am aware of, but that has not covered all of the students who are eligible or all of them that would have gone if we had made the money available to them, because the NDEA has not had that amount of money. The Senator from New York wants to know what that figure is, that we ought to plan on, if we are going to stop denying to some college students a college education. COMPOSITE FINANCIAL AID PROGRAM Mr. HowE. If I can make a comment here? I believe that the Federal program, for general purposes, will have to continue to be a composite program of loans, of work study arrangements and of opportunity grants. Senator MORSE. I agree. Mr. Howe. And that loans are not the only pieces, if you will look at it as a picture puzzle, that provide a full solution to it. Senator MORSE. I quite agree. I am going on the assumption—as we all have in this subcommittee-that we will have needy students who otherwise could not go to college unless we help them. They cannot attend unless they get some financial assistance. It will be in the form of loans or in the form of the work-study programs through opportunity grants, and through outside work. What I want to know is, limiting ourselves now to the loan provision, which is the provision now before us, how many students must we plan to serve on a loan basis if we meet the need? Mr. Howe. This has to be a ball park guess on our part. Mr. Howe. Which includes such factors as the going cost of higher education, the factors like a student's choice of an institution, where if he can get a loan he may go to one institution, and if he cannot get a loan he may go to another institution, thereby affecting the nature or the quality of the education which he may receive in relation to his abilities. If you throw in all of these kinds of considerations I believe that percentage becomes very high. The middle-income people in the United States now find themselves in a very difficult situation to finance the education of their youngsters at some college. Therefore, this figure that I gave you earlier, in the realm of 80 percent, really represents a reasonable figure to look at as we examine the long-range role of loans in providing for college education. Senator MORSE. I am not going to infringe any further on the time of my colleagues. I am going to ask, Commissioner Howe, that you supplement the discussion we have just had on this problem with a memorandum for the record with whatever qualifications you want to put in it, because I know what I will be faced with on the floor of the Senate on this question. I must have such facts as I can secure, to answer and to debate the question. The Senate will want to know the total amount of money that is going to be required to meet the loan needs of the American students who otherwise could not go to college. Senator JAVITS. I ask unanimous consent that written questions may be presented to the Commissioner by members of the subcommittee and that written answers may be made by the Commissioner and inserted in the record.1 Senator MORSE. I have already covered that, but I will grant the request. I covered that in my opening statement this morning. I made it very clear that the administration witnesses would be available at all times to answer questions that the subcommittee wished to present to them, and that will include the form in which the Senator from New York just made his request. Senator JAVITS. I make another unanimous consent request. If the Commissioner finds that 80 percent figure is out of line, so completely as to embarrass us, that he have leave to expunge it and insert 1 The written questions referred to and the answers supplied may be found on pp. 54, 60. another figure. I think otherwise the figure can bedevil us through the whole debate, and no qualification will cover it. Senator MORSE. The Chair rules that after the Commissioner and his staff prepares the memorandums that they may correct the testimony of this morning, if correction is needed, in the light of the final decision reached on this problem.2 The hearing stands in adjournment until 9:30 tomorrow morning. (Whereupon, at 10:40 a.m., the hearing was recessed until 9:30 a.m., Wednesday, July 13, 1966.) 2 The testimony referred to has been reviewed by the Office of Education and the estimates contained therein have been revised, thus obviating the necessity for additional memorandums. HIGHER EDUCATION AMENDMENTS OF 1966 WEDNESDAY, JULY 13, 1966 U.S. SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION OF THE Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., in room 4200, New Senate Office Building, Senator Wayne Morse (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Senators Morse, Yarborough, Kennedy of New York, Kennedy of Massachusetts, and Javits. Committee staff members present: Charles Lee, professional staff member; and Roy H. Millenson, minority clerk. Senator MORSE. The hearing will come to order. ARGENTINE GUESTS The subcommittee is honored to have in attendance this morning at group of nine students from Argentina who are on an exchange program sponsored by the U.S. State Department. I want to welcome the students to this hearing. May I say to counsel for the subcommittee that they have translator equipment which I assure them they can use without in any way disturbing the hearing so that they will understand what the witnesses are saying. I am happy to welcome these students not only to our hearing, but to our country. Our first witness this morning will be Dr. B. J. Priest, president of the Dallas County Junior College, Dallas, Tex., and president of the American Association of Junior Colleges. Dr. Priest, we are delighted to have you here. I think you are familiar with the procedure of the subcommittee. You may proceed in your own way, either by reading your statement or summarizing your statement, whichever meets with your preference. STATEMENT OF BILL J. PRIEST, PRESIDENT, DALLAS COUNTY JUNIOR COLLEGE DISTRICT, DALLAS, TEX., AND REPRESENTING THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF JUNIOR COLLEGES Mr. PRIEST Thank you, Senator Morse. I believe in the interest of time that I will not read the whole statement, but will take excerpts from it and then, of course, be available if there are any questions. Senator MORSE. The Chair rules that the entire statement will be printed at this point in the record. |