learning disabilities, and perceptual handicaps. Each one is slightly different. Each one was designed for a specific quadrant of the city. Now, we happen to be somewhat fortunate in Denver in that the impact programs were, for the most part, undertaken through the manpower administrative meaning that we acted as a conduit for LEAA money, as well. That provided us with some ability to one, reduce administrative overhead and overlap in that sense and two, provide some identification system but, they were still experimental projects and not designed as long-term delivery systems.

Mr. HAWKINS. One final question, Mr. Joyce. You provide for the training through programs that you offer to a high risk youth. May I ask in that connection what is the involvement of your agency with such juvenile delinquency programs as we visited this morning? What is your approach for high risk youth?

Mr. JOYCE. It's our feeling that virtually all of our clients in all of our programs are "high risk." When we were talking about preparing this testimony today, we had a discussion on whether or not manpower clients were offenders or multiple offenders. It's our feeling that most, or many, of our clients they were by virtue of the criminal justice system given a hand slap and sent home. But, those clients in our terms are "high risk." I assume you're referring to arrests.

With respect to these other projects that we are involved with, we provide administrative support in the sense that we are, each one of these projects requires a governmental sponsor and we are that sponsor. We handle their finances, we control the audits of the programs, and in this instance assist them in data processing requirements and we give them professional help where they need it.

Mr. HAWKINS. Does that include job training funds?

Mr. JOYCE. It doesn't at this point under the program, under LEAA specifically as a part of the program, although it's still possible for one of these clients to go into one of these projects. For example, they could be enrolled, in many instances, in our summer youth program and for us on the youth program. Some of these projects act as host sites for entities to work on so, the answer is yes, we do support them in that.

Mr. HAWKINS. Mr. Clay.

Mr. CLAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

You made a statement that the programs funded by LEAA have been criticized, that basically the criticism was lack of comprehensiveness. Would you elaborate on that for a moment?

Mr. JOYCE. The criticisms that we have experienced, or the ones that I have heard, have been on the order of individual projects not being aware of the full array of services that are available in the city, particularly if the project is operating in one quadrant of the city and the service is available geographically in another quadrant. Then, in some instances, we have demonstrated that the projects simply don't hear about them. They become very neighborhood oriented and are not aware of some services in other parts of the city. That complaint is mainly heard from the police department and the courts. Again, my response to that complaint is in several instances the projects were not designed to be comprehensive, citywide. They were designed to deal with specific problems in a particular community and it's somewhat unrealistic to expect them to know of every service

available in every part of the city. Again, I feel if it's a problem in the delivery system it is in arriving at long term and dealing in large volumes of clients. Whatever service system is responsible for that, can no longer fall back on that. It's a test program and they will have to be able to provide services whether they are health and hospitals, whether they are out of the Denver Manpower Administration or whatever.

Mr. CLAY. You also made a statement that Congress in 1973 mandated a CETA comprehensive approach to the problems. Can you tell us how comprehensive your youth program is?

Mr. JOYCE. It's comprehensive to the extent that every one of our services available to an adult is now available to youth in terms of training, in terms of work experience, and added to that we have attempted recently to do some intensive types things like the career programs. In the future-you don't want to hear about the future, you want to hear about what is happening now. There is a whole range of services, probably eight or nine different functions that have generally been loosely identified as CETA functions across the country and all those functions, at this point we are funding the youth through that under on-the-job training, vocational training, health information, remedial kinds of education-reading, writing, and arithmetic-counseling which includes testing to determine vocational readiness, and I think I indicated vocational training and OGT.

Mr. CLAY. You didn't really mean that the services for youth don't really differ much from the services needed for an adult?

Mr. JOYCE. No; I think they differ more in terms of intensiveness. We develop a plan which gets them from point A to point B and our experience has been that certain kinds of treatments are more effective with certain kinds of clients. An example on the other kind would be the drop out rate educationally for Chicanos is very much higher than any black or anglo clients. As a result, we tend to develop employability development plans for Chicano women who are in the age group around 35 and that involves more adult basic education and remedial education than for our other clients.

For very youthful clients, up to approximately the age of 17 or 18, that is also something that they are very much in need of. A straight classroom type of remedial education. Immediately after that, the problem becomes one of vocational education so between 17 and 19, we tend to emphasize OJT and vocational training for them. Mr. CLAY. My last question, on page 7 of your statement:

It would therefore be our recommendation that more adequate resources be allocated through the CETA model. Prime sponsors have indicated through past performance that they will direct substantial portions of those resources to youth programs within a context of a comprehensive system.

What percentage of your program was directed toward youth?

Mr. JOYCE. 42.3 last year. Our Advisory Council indicated that 40 of our clients must be youth this year. My understanding is that it is over 57 percent currently.

Mr. CLAY. And does that include the youth summer camp program? Mr. JOYCE. No; that is strictly title I. If you included the summer program, we're talking about a considerably higher portion-2.400 or 2.500 more clients. The summer youth program is a different cat. We are trying to do a different thing; they are people, for the most part,

we intend to have them go back to school. What we are attempting to do is get them a good work experience or vocational skills in that short period of time which will direct their return to school more readily into an employment prospective later on.

Mr. CLAY. How does that 40 percent mandate from your advisory board jibe with this appendix you have here about the process used to determine client group priorities?

Mr. JOYCE. Again, we are faced, we are in a situation with limited resources where we are forced to do trade offs and the advisory council discussions revolve around the fact that again the question that Mr. Hawkins pointed out is we are faced with the decision of whether we get a job for the father or the son. What this process is designed to do is give a reasonable idea of who is most in need and attempt to split up what, in our view, little we have to split up. There is some assumption in that in that helping the father doesn't in fact, help the youth and that's the basis for the split there.

Also, we are talking about splitting it up. I believe an additional 83 percent goes to older workers and the result is roughly 50 percent of our resources going to the head of the household between the age of 22 and 45 and the remainder going to older workers and the youth, with the bulk for youth.

Mr. CLAY. Thank you.

Mr. HAWKINS. Mr. LaVor.

Mr. LAVOR. Mr. Joyce, I'd like to follow up on some of the questions that came from Mr. Clay. How many ĈETA offices are there throughout the city?

Mr. JOYCE. There are approximately six or seven-it varies from time to time. I think there are six at the present time.

Mr. LAVOR. And could you please just walk us through what happens when a client walks in the door of one of your offices. I think I'd like you to be more specific. If a 15-year-old who comes from a broken home, who has a arrest record, and generally has problems. comes from a one-parent family whose parent is unable to work, happens to walk into one of your offices, what can you do for that child? Mr. JOYCE. The first point for the record is in terms of a screening device, that is not a screening device. This would be important in terms of the type of treatment. What would happen if a child comes in and enters what is known as "out reach"-it varies slightly for agency to agency depending on whether it's OIC, for example, they differ slightly in their approach. The first step is to determine preliminary eligibility-are they economically disadvantaged? Are they residents of the city and county of Denver? If we can service them. the next step is for them to receive what we refer to as assessment. It's a diagnostic situation where they may be given basic tests and this sort of thing. After getting sufficient information, then the next step is for them to receive testing from an educational service or by the Singer Career Development Center, both of which test digital manipulation and the ability to work with certain types of tools and tasks rather than pencil and paper. Based on the outcome of the diagnostic tests, and counseling, the individual would then go normally into an orientation of the world of work kind of situation where they would possibly receive service training, receive some training or background to what the world of work is about.

The next possibility would be either vocational training, attitude education, remedial education, or vocational skills training, if appropriate. The next step is normally to return to the job readiness workshop. This is a situation where they are given assistance in working wtih job development to find a permanent placement and receive intensive advise and discussions on how to approach an employment situation, how to deal with unemployment, how to fill out an application. The intent on this is we don't want the client to come back to us if the first job bombs out. If something on the order of say, we have a sudden recession, the first persons to be fired are going to be the last ones that were hired. We want to leave them then with the skills to get another job so they don't have to come back. After they are placed on a job, we follow through for about a year and that's the program in a very rough nutshell.

Mr. LAVOR. I was struck as you were talking. I was referring to a 15-year-old, and I was struck that you didn't mention schooling; trying to get the individual back in school. You didn't mention working with the parent and the mental health problem. What does your program do as far as dealing with this problem?

Mr. JOYCE. In terms of that assessment, the initial assessment, would inclule a determination as to why the client or potential client left school. Is it a situation that prohibits him from returning or does the client absolutely refuse to return to a structured situation? What we find very often is the client left school because he does not operate well in a structured school setting. We at that point have a choice of using an alternative type school for them or attempting basic education for them at that point. When I refer to counseling, our definition of counseling includes seeking out and gaining support services for that individual and if it's appropriate or necessary for that individual, those services that are required to stabilize that individual's home. In other words, we can't send him for vocational education training until we have got a situation where they have a home, food, et cetera. In each case, our counselor would deal with our agency and whatever other agency is necessary in the city that is dealing with the family problems as a whole.

Mr. LAVOR. Would you do anything for this 15-year-old that you would not do for an adult?

Mr. JOYCE. To the extent that we would not suggest that an adult be in a situation where he would go back to the Denver public schools as we quite frequently recommend to a child. We also would not become as involved in the family situation as we would with a child. Many of the problems that cause the youth to be with us are family oriented. So often when we have a client, what we really have is a family full of clients. To that extent, we are much more involved in the support services and the adult basic education requirements. It's also a much longer process. We try to get an adult through the system. as quickly as possible and reduce the amount of time in the program. With a youthful client, we probably will have him for awhile.

Mr. LAVOR. Is there any difference in the cost of working with Young people and adults?

Mr. JOYCE. Yes; it's considerably more expensive. The program that I indicated was with individuals that we felt did not particularly require vocational training-long-term vocational training that works

very well. It's a 3- or 4-week program. In effect, the program involved 25 people and was conducted in less than 3 months. We aren't talking about extensive vocational training and adult basic education. Adult basic education is very expensive. We do not run a skill center other than through the community college or proprietor schools and that training is expensive. At the same time, the longer an individual is. enrolled in a program, he's receiving a wage which will go, I believe to $2.50 an hour at the beginning of January. It's $2.42 now. If we get a client who is enrolled for a year, we are by virtue of his program alone, expending over $5,000. So, that can become very expensive in dealing with youth.

Mr. LAVOR. Thank you, Mr. Joyce.

Mr. HAWKINS. Just one final clarification, Mr. Joyce.

Let's use the case of a youthful applicant under CETA. Would you say that applicant is more likely to be accepted if the applicant comes from a broken home where the head of the family is unemployed? Mr. JOYCE. I would have to say probably yes, based on the economic criteria involved. If-well, I can't say that because we simply don't accept clients, with very few exceptions, that are not economically disadvantages. Our basic breaking point is the economic disadvantageness. If the parents or the family because of whatever reasons, whether it's because of a broken home or any other reasons, is economically disadvantaged then at that point our next criteria is whether or not we are capable of servicing the needs of that particular client. The kinds of needs that we would not deal with would be something in the order of an unstable psychotic. We would refer them to the appropriate medical program.

Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, but on the basis on which the need is established, it is not true that if there is a family in which the head of the family is unemployed, that would probably establish that need? Mr. JOYCE. Absolutely.

Mr. HAWKINS. Would it not also be true that if the head of the family was employed or receiving some type of assistance that youth would probably not be accepted?

Mr. JOYCE. Under our current funding, if the parent was employed and receiving wages above the economic disadvantaged criteria, then he would probably not be accepted in our program. If the client was receiving welfare, ADC, then again under our title I programs, we would consider that to be where we are currently splitting our turn with the welfare. With title III, that's not the case. Anyone who is disadvantaged is eligible and for that matter we have validated the applications for our summer youth program through WIN to make sure all applicants were disadvantaged; so yes, under some of our programs, that would be the case.

Mr. HAWKINS. That's a great deal of trade off.

Mr. JOYCE. Certainly. The amount of resources allocated to Denver in the course of 1 year under title I is probably about $3.7 million. I'm not certain of the figure, but that's approximately the order of it. Given the fact that there are approximately 20,000 employed persons in the city and given the level of juvenile population and their probJems and the number of economically disadvantaged people in the city. we are just scratching the surface. What our argument is is to say

it