Senator HALE. Then Mr. Taber was in error when he made that statement.

Mr. BALDWIN. I have not seen his statement. He may be including the number of people who are receiving loans from Farm Security. Senator HALE. The Farm Security Administration has placed 150,000 on direct relief during each of the past 2 months. That is 300,000 more. Is that correct?

Mr. BALDWIN. No; that is not correct.

Senator HALE. Then, Mr. Taber received the wrong information over the telephone.

Senator BYRNES. He says 150,000 and that statement says 150,000. Senator HALE. He says 150,000 for the past 2 months.

Mr. BALDWIN. One hundred and fifty thousand is the total number of active grant cases we had.

Senator HALE. That was the total number of cases on direct relief on Farm Security?

Mr. BALDWIN. That is right.

Senator HALE. Are you contemplating putting more on in the next 4 months?

Mr. BALDWIN. We will put them on when they are needed; yes, sir. I think there will be an increase perhaps from 25,000 to 40,000. Senator HALE. Then you do not expect to take care of more than 200,000?

Mr. BALDWIN. No, sir.

Senator HALE. Very well. Let me keep on.

Senator RUSSELL. I do not think it is necessary for the telephone or the Farm Security to be mistaken. It is shown in the revenue.

Senator HALE. If it is only 150,000, that would give, in round figures, 1,700,000 the present increases show in Government and State help since November 1. Now, if this bill passes, 500,000 additional will go on work relief but the same number will go off direct relief so that makes no change and another 40,000 will be added under Farm Security relief. Regardless of this bill another 400,000 will be added under unemployment insurance in the next 4 months, and if 100,000 new cases per month are added to the old age pension rolls that makes 400,000 for the next 4 months or a total of 840,000, or a grand total of 2,540,000 who will be receiving new help from the Government or the States on July 1, 1938. I ask leave to insert a table in the record showing these figures.

Present increase in those receiving aid from Government or State

Additional estimated increases up to July 1, 1938, including increases,

if any, caused by passage of this bill:

Farm Security relief.

Senator ADAMS. But, Senator Hale, your insurance figures would not be affected by the passage of this bill. You are speaking of an increase by virtue of the passage of this bill. That does not affect the number of folks that are put on the rolls in the Social Security Administration at all.

Senator HALE. I do not see that this bill effects employment insurance in any way at all. It does not. I am simply stating that the country is taking care in one way or another of about 2,540,000 new people since November 1 and up to July 1, 1938. Whether adequately or not, I do not say, but it is taking care of them in some way, and that to a certain extent partially balances the 3,000,000 who have lost their employment. Of course, they are not all the same people.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Senator, I don't believe it adds to that.

Mr. Ross. There are several hundred thousand duplications, of course. As I pointed out a minute ago, the January figures include families who received relief at any time during the month of January, so the people who were transferred to the W. P. A. during January were included in both the relief and the W. P. A. totals.

Senator HALE. Is it not true that more people are being taken care of now than at any other period in the past?

Mr. Ross. No, sir.

Senator HALE. How many were taken care of in 1933?

Mr. Ross. We submitted a statement on page 76 of the House hearings.

Senator ADAMS. Was not the high point in 1936?

Mr. Ross. The high point was in the winter of 1933-34. We estimated this on the basis of total persons, including dependents in the families, and on that basis at the peak in 1934 there were 29%1⁄2 million persons being assisted.

Senator HALE. I know, but how many people were receiving benefits? I mean directly were being paid benefits to be used for their families?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Twenty-nine and a half millions were in families already receiving benefits in 1934 as against approximately 18,000,000

now.

Senator HALE. When you take that figure, you are taking into consideration unemployment insurance or old-age pensions?

Mr. WILLIAMS. We should compare the people who are in need now with the number really in need in 1932, even though they were not getting assistance.

Senator HALE. I am not talking about 1932. I am talking about 1933 or 1934.

Senator BYRNES. There is no question that the number of people who are receiving assistance of some kind has greatly increased. Senator HALE. I think it has greatly increased.

Senator BYRNES. We all know that. It is simply a question of figures. If you want the witness to get the figures, give him the list and he will check it up on that list and see whether or not he is correct. It is pretty difficult for him to carry it in his mind.

Senator TOWNSEND. Have you any decided opinions about the cause of this unemployment in recent months?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Senator, there are so many different opinions and there are so many different reasons given—and which of them are

valid, I wouldn't want to say-but I haven't anything new to contribute on that.

Senator TOWNSEND. Have you a decided opinion as to whether or not the Government's spending in a large way will increase employment?

Mr. WILLIAMS. I do on that sir. I believe the root of our difficulty is lack of purchasing power and I think in a situation like this that the Federal Government is the only agency that can move into the emergency and supply a certain amount of purchasing power in a quick and we hope, effective, efficient, and fair way.

Senztor TOWNSEND. Do you think then that the great improvement in 1936 and 1937 was due largely to Government spending? Mr. WILLIAMS. I think the Government spending had a direct bearing on it.

Senator BYRNES. Mr. Williams, coming back to the resolution, could you look at the second page and tell me under the language of the appropriation bill for this year how many aliens were stricken from the rolls.

Mr. WILLIAMS. About 70,000, Senator.

Senator BYRNES. There is some language that was added to the resolution on the floor of the House.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; and I am very glad to have that brought up.

Senator BYRNES. I think I introduced that amendment last year and I want to know whether the W. P. A. is in favor of the resolution having this language in the last three lines:

Unless such alien has resided continuously and lived honorably in the United States since January 1, 1928, and is ineligible under the laws of the United States to become a citizen.

How would you administer that?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, Senator, we have no objections to that part of the amendment, but I think it would present some very serious. administration problems.

Senator BYRNES. You mean to read, "Unless such alien is ineligible under the laws"? But how are you going to determine whether the alien is living honorably or not?

Mr. WILLIAMS. It is very difficult for me to see how we could determine that.

Senator BYRNES. You have got to have quite a force.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; to investigate and determine that. The truth of the matter is the present amendment in the law has made for the elimination of any aliens of that character, if there were such, and it is our opinion that this amendment will require that every W. P. A. worker would have to prove his citizenship, or his good character. I do not believe that was the intention of Congress.

Senator ADAMS. May I call your attention to this? I get a little different viewpoint than you. It seems to me it is broadening and expanding relief to aliens. As I know the present law, you have first eliminated aliens unlawfully in the United States. Then you have eliminated aliens who have not declared their intention to become citizens. Now, this includes not only aliens who have declared their intention but other aliens who have resided continuously and honorably in the United States.

Senator BYRNES. No doubt about that being the effect of it, whether it was the intention or not.

Senator RUSSELL. I think there is a hiatus in our naturalization laws, because of the fact that due to certain immigration laws that were passed and due to some oversight, there is a class of aliens who entered the country illegally between 1920 and 1924 who cannot become citizens and I think this must have prompted that language. Senator TOWNSEND. Have you any estimate of the aliens that are now on the roll?

Mr. Ross. Practically none right now after we dropped 72,000. Senator TOWNSEND. If you have none left, that is all there is to it. Senator BYRNES. Because of the amendment to the last appropriation bill. Now, this resolution without this proviso will have the existing law apply to the $250,000,000 provided in this fund if the proviso were stricken out. You still have the prohibition against the alien receiving a W. P. A. job when he has not filed a declaration of intention to become a citizen. But if this proviso is continued, it does broaden the base and it will permit aliens to come in and get jobs.

Mr. GILL. There is another feature, if I might mention it, Mr. Chairman. With this provision in as it was introduced and passed yesterday, it applies to the $250,000,000 only and not to the former appropriation. Therefore, duplicate accounts would have to be established all through the accounting and reporting system, separating this $250,000,000 from the previous appropriation. Furthermore, the Comptroller General would undoubtedly require definite evidence of citizenship before anybody on the administrative or project pay rolls could be paid, and on each subsequent pay roll opposite his name would have to be reference as to where that proof could be found. Administratively, it would be very difficult, and it would cost a great deal of money.

Senator BYRNES. And there is another point. Even with this, if the present condition in business continues, you will have some employables on the rolls in the State who would be able to secure jobs with W. P. A. American citizens, and it would be permitting the group of aliens who come under this definition to get jobs when American citizens who are on the rolls and are eligible could not get them.

Senator ADAMS. I can give you one group that are specifically included and that is Japanese, Chinese, and those of races that are not eligible for citizenship. This would include the anarchists who are not eligible for citizenship.

Mr. WILLIAMS. The administration of this provision would be infinitely more difficult than the present law.

Senator ADAMS. We will take that up later.

Are there any other questions?

Senator RUSSELL. Mr. Williams, I want to help put in the record something I have never been able to put there and that is a table that will show the wage scales of the various States; in other words, the wage scale for common labor which runs from $21 to $48-I want that shown, including New York City. I want to establish the differential that has been fixed by the W. P. A. throughout the entire

United States.

Mr. WILLIAMS. All right, sir.
(The material referred to follows:)

SECURITY WAGE SCHEDULE FOR WORKS PROGRAM WORKERS

At the initiation of the works program in 1935 under authority of the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act of that year, a wage policy was adopted that was intended to provide a monthly income for workers sufficient to meet the minimum needs of an average-size family in the communities where the workers were employed. This policy was embodied in Executive Order No. 7046, which contained a specific schedule of monthly security wages providing for variation in monthly rates of pay according to the skill of the worker, to the region of the country, and to the size of the largest city in the country in which the worker is employed. The wage schedule, together with a list of the States included in each region (as now defined) for which different monthly wages were specified, is shown below:

TABLE 5.-Schedule of monthly earnings of security wage workers established by Executive Order No. 7046

I The States included in each wage rate region as of August 1937 are as follows:
Region I.-Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania,
Rhode Is.and, Vermont, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Wisconsin, Arizona, California,
Colorado, Idaho, Iowa, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, New Mexico,, Oregon, Utah, South
Dakota, Washington, Wyoming, parts of Kentucky, and Missouri.

Region II.-Kansas, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maryland, West Virginia, parts of Missouri, and
Texas.

Region III.-Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Virginia, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, parts of Kentucky, and Texas.

2 Urbanization groups are defined as the groups of counties in which the 1930 population of the largest municipalities was as follows: Over 100,000, group A; 50,000 to 100,000, group B; 25,000 to 50,000, group C; 5,000 to 25,000, group D; under 5,000 group E.

Senator ADAMS. You asked for a table of contributions by States. Did you want to include the contributions from a city when a city is separate from a State, such as New York?

Senator RUSSELL. Well, they run New York City separate from the State. The others are all combined.

WORKS PROGRESS ADMINISTRATION THEATER

Just how do these various theater projects that they run, or that the W. P. A. runs-who is the head of these projects? I just want a little information about it.

Mr. WILLIAMS. They are part of our regular work program and administratively I am the head of them. Then coming under me is Mrs. Woodward; she is Assistant Administrator, and then under her is Mrs. Flanagan, who actually runs it.