of overriding public interest here. This is coming more and more into our handling of these things.

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, there are a lot of "ifs" and "ands" there but if the Federal Government comes in and acquires, we have to acquire the land to secure this water right for the benefit of the park. Would you say we have to do that under Florida law?

Mr. PATTON. I think so.

Mr. JOHNSON. All right.

Mr. CAMP. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. TAYLOR. The gentleman from Oklahoma.

Mr. CAMP. You mentioned in the early part of your statement, Mr. Patton, that you were a layman. The laymen that you come in contact with down at Fort Myers Beach, are they favorable to this legislation?

Mr. PATTON. We have got all kinds. I cannot speak for all of them. We have got some very uninformed people who do not understand, and I am not trying to be unkind. You have to understand this thing to have an opinion. And there are a lot of people that do not understand it, do not understand it at all. They do not even think it is true.

This is why I come back to my proposition. The people who know are the people who wrote this report. They are the ones that know. And in that way I think we had better listen to them.

Mr. CAMP. In other words, for the preservation of the betterment of the people in southern Florida, then, you had better go to your experts.

Mr. PATTON. It is good for them, good for all of us.

Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you, Mr. Patton.

Now, in a few minutes we will recess for lunch and we will come back at 1 o'clock.

Is Mr. James Pace still here? Hold up your hand, Mr. Pace. I see you are still here.

We cut you short because we had some other property owners and some of those did not take their time. So this afternoon if we have any time left we will give you some additional time to finish the statement that you want to make.

Mr. PACE. I certainly appreciate that.

Mr. TAYLOR. At least, part of it.

The subcommittee will stand in recess until 1 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 1 p.m., this day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Mr. TAYLOR. The Subcommittee on National Parks and Recreation will reconvene.

Our first witness this afternoon is Mr. Charles Garrett, representing Izaak Walton League of Collier County.

STATEMENT OF CHARLES GARRETT, REPRESENTING IZAAK

WALTON LEAGUE OF COLLIER COUNTY

Mr. GARRETT. I feel that at this time of day, after you have had a good meeting and heard some good remarks and good questions, and thorough goingover, that there is one thing I should do with this paper and that is probably tear it up and start over, but it is very short and I will read it and I will get the operation out of the way, and

I have already found two or three places where I can make some corrections in my own thinking.

I am Charles Garrett, president of the Cypress Chapter of the Izaak Walton League, a rather recent league formed over there to protect the environmental conditions and to try to save some of the area and make various protections in there.

One of the elements that came up that was mentioned here this morning that has been very prominent is the air boats running through the Big Cypress and through the Everglades chasing down game and the necessity of some control there as possibly with the snowmobiles. in the north.

Going on, I will read this. I appreciate this opportunity to present my thoughts on the subject and I wish to commend you for holding preliminary hearings in such convenient locations. I realize that I can add very little to recent reports of Federal agencies and their professional staffs, but I can, and do emphasize that there is a genuine concern along this coast of south Florida that the fresh water supply necessary to maintain both the natural ecology and the human concentration is rapidly approaching a crisis condition. We look to the sky for rain. This is especially true in the spring months. If the rains do not come, we look to the south rim of our great water pitcher, the famous Lake Okeechobee, and we discuss our supply in inches. Therefore, we must control the watershed below our pitcher. Estimates vary, but somewhere between one-fourth and one-half of the Big Cypress surface flow is necessary for the Everglades National Park equilibrium. Without adequate fresh-water input, salt water intrusion becomes a threat.

Residents along the gulf coast of Collier County are continually being warned that as the population density increases, they must look to the east Collier well fields and their shallow aquifers in Big Cypress for relief.

I understand that is beyond the Big Cypress. This is a point I will have to check out. Not in the Big Cypress but beyond in what they call well field B. This I have learned.

This means maintaining the flow as constant as possible. A grid of roads and ditches would utterly ruin this process and the damage could only intensify. The road departments are being constantly reminded to clean ditches which seems to lead, all too soon, to deep ditches and rapid runoff of valuable fresh water. Much has been said about endangered species, rare orchids and beautiful wilderness scenery. These things are there, they exist, but they are in danger. Loss of tax base is an irrelevant issue. I think that was pointed out this morning. I would not say entirely irrevelant, but rather small in comparison to the whole package, I am speaking of the land, the real estate tax per se. More land is under development today than water sources will permit. I suggest the best answer is to compensate the present owners and return Big Cypress to Mother Nature.

I wish to thank you and remind you that our organization is dedicated to the restoration and wise use of America's soil, woods, waters, and wildlife.

Thank you very much.

Mr. TAYLOR. Any questions of Mr. Garrett? Well, thank you, sir. Mr. GARRETT. Thank you for the opportunity.

Mr. TAYLOR. Mr. Harmon Turner, County Manager, Collier County.

STATEMENT OF HARMON TURNER, COUNTY MANAGER, COLLIER COUNTY

Mr. TURNER. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, I want to thank you for the opportunity of appearing here today for the purpose of discussing the Big Cypress watershed.

I might state that we in Collier County have had difficulty in understanding why the hearing is in Lee County rather than Collier County since Collier County is where the property is and that is where the property owners are concerned. I believe approximately 80 percent of the land being taken or being discussed is in Collier County.

We had a hearing awhile back in Miami at which time we did ask that Senator Chiles and his group have a hearing in Collier County, and then it was indicated at that time that we would. I do not know whether any of this involves Lee County or not but we are happy to be able to come up and discuss this with you.

I mention being in Collier County because I assume, having not been able to get anything on this ahead of time, I assume that we are talking about the same areas that were involved in the other discussions, the area involved in Senator Chiles' bill. Also, it has been discussed in the reports of the Big Cypress watershed.

It is believed that any action taken with the idea of protecting the Everglades National Park should be based on facts and we are sure that that is what you are here for. For this reason, it was suggested that the study that is now being made of the Big Cypress Watershed, at a cost of $3 million and requiring 3 years, should be completed to assist in determining the action to be taken.

I am sure we realize that the Interior Department or someone is now in the process of making a study of this area we thought for the purpose of getting information to determine what should be done with the Big Cypress.

This study is possibly half completed now. When it is complete, information should be available for making fairly accurate and reasonable decisions. It looks now that one of the plans suggested in the Big Cypress Watershed Study, dated April 19, 1971, is to be adopted, before the study is completed. This surely is the reverse of the normal Federal program, which requires a comprehensive plan before money can be granted or loaned for a project.

If one of the programs in the named report is to be used, we sure feel that the No. 1 program in this report is the proper one. That suggests the purchase of the property involved is the most equitable to all of the property owners.

This should be done only after the facts of the area are known and it is determined that this is the best land-use program for this portion of the Big Cypress Watershed.

The reports by those advocating the purchase of this property and Senator Chiles' bill and I refer to his because I did not have this bill at the time we spoke of this, Senator Chiles' bill to establish the Everglades Big Cypress National Recreation Area in the State of Florida says that, "The Everglades National Park is dependent for more than half its surface water supply on water flowing from the Big Cypress Swamp ***" That sounds real critical to the future of all of the Everglades National Park. I am sure that is what the Con

gressman and the President have been told by those advocating the acquisition of the Big Cypress. However, that is not what the U.S. Geological Survey says in its report "Some Hydrologic and Biologic Aspects of the Big Cypress Swamp," dated 1970, and it is obviously not the true fact.

In order for 50 percent of the water for the park to come from all of Collier County, not just area C, that is mentioned in this Big Cypress Watershed report. Every drop of rain that falls on Collier County would have to be put in the park because the park and the county are approximately the same size. We all know that that does not happen and it could not happen.

On pages 10 and 64 of the mentioned U.S.G.S. report it states that "Subarea C contributes between 55 and 60 percent of the surface inflow received by the park ***" It also stated that:

The inflow from subarea C of the Big Cypress supplies about 16 percent of the park, an area of about 350 square miles at the extreme northwest end of the park.

Thus, 16 percent of the park area receives between 55 and 60 percent of the total surface inflow. This water flows into the park during the rainy season and a short time thereafter. However, it is not available during the normal dry season. On page 11 of the U.S.G.S. report it states that there are periods of 8 to 9 months when no water from subarea C flows into the park. That surely does not sound like all of the 1,300,000 acres of the park is dependent on subarea C for its existence. The park receives about the same rainfall that Collier County gets or about 53 inches, I understand it is probably a little bit higher than that of rainfall annually, which is about 5.5 million acre-feet as compared to the 541,000 acre-feet annually from subarea C. Assuming the park to be 1,300,000 acres, all of the inflow water to the park from subarea C and conservation area 3 would be only about 10.7 inches of rainfall that would mean 60.7 inches total water on the park annually. The inflow from subarea C would only be about 5.35 inches over the park as compared to the 60.7 inches it does receive. This means the subarea C contributes only about 9 percent of the total water from the park instead of the 56 percent some would have you believe. Quite a difference. This water comes in and flows into Everglades National Park from area C. Approximately 17 to 20 percent of the total flow out of the Big Cypress flows in through Turner River Canal, that is, a canal alongside of Turner River Road. Also, of the water flowing from subarea C into the park, approximately 10 to 13 percent of the total flow of the Big Cypress flows in the Barren River Canal along State Road 29 and not by the so-called sheet flow which some people say is so vital to the area and to the park.

I might say that these figures on the flow through these canals are reached from the U.S. Geological Survey.

It is also stated that water in subarea C recharges the water source for Naples, and one Associated Press report even said the populated area of Naples and Fort Myers. The U.S.G.S. says the water falling on the eastern part of Collier County does not in any way recharge the present source of water for Naples nor even that planned for the long range future. The present supply comes from the ridge parallel to the gulf shore and about a mile inland. The future source is planned from an area west of SR 29.

Fort Myers and Lee Countys' source of water is the Caloosahathchee River which surely is not to be recharged by rainfall in subarea Cor any part of Collier County.

It is agreed that if one of the five plans outlined in the Big Cypress Watershed report is to be adopted, plan No. 1 is the most equitable to the property owners. The other plans would only leave the property owner with the right to pay taxes which surely the county will continue to need, but I do not believe that is the fair way to get it.

If the property is going to be purchased by the Federal Government, Collier County does have some comments on how this should be done, and conditions we, in Collier County, feel should be met.

There are 30.000, more or less, property owners in the area. And I am speaking of Collier County, not the whole area, because I believe it is 35,000 to 40,000 in the whole area that is involved. I cannot be exact because the county has never been given a definite description to go by. And I am speaking of this bill now, upon receipt of the definite description of Senator Chiles' bill. The total land involved by H.R. 13017 is 547,000 acres. I believe this cannot go over 547,000 acres but no mention of how much can come from Collier County. Other bills and reports say up to 460,000 acres in Collier County. This is approximately a third of the county area. When this property is taken over by the Interior Department each property owner should be paid then, not 10 to 20 years later as has been the case in the Everglades National Park. People have their money invested in the property and they should be compensated without undue delay.

The legislation approving this purchase should also provide the money needed. This may well be considerably more money than has been suggested. This should be done even if the administration is trying to fight inflation and is economy minded. Appraisers should be put to work immediately and purchase payments begin at once and continue until the total purchase is complete and paid for.

The appraisal of this property should use the normal factors for such appraisals. However, the sale price of the property should be that for which the land was selling prior to the announcement of the proposed takeover of Federal control of the area.

There has been considerable speculation regarding oil in the Big Cypress. Since this is an unknown factor the oil and mineral rights should remain in the present ownership with definite assurances that exploration can be carried out and if oil or other valuable minerals are found, they can be developed in accordance with proper current guidelines. If this is not done, the appraisal should provide an acceptable value for the oil and mineral rights with a guarantee that no oil prospecting will be done in this property.

Collier County does receive ad valorem taxes from the area. The amount cannot be accurately estimated because the exact area is not known. I think I stated before when Senator Chiles' bill stating up to three-quarters of a million dollars was received from this, however, that was merely an estimate. We do not have any exact figures. Therefore, I do not have any here.

These taxes are used to help finance the operations of the county and for financing the school systems in the county.

The operation of the county must go on and the schools must continue to function. For that reason Collier County does insist that it continue to receive like funds from this area.