Dr. HARTWELL. Well, let us put it this way. In the area of this Big Cypress we have under consideration here, of all the water that flows overland from areas outside of the Everglades National Park into Everglades National Park, that overland flow comprises 55 per

cent of that total.

There is another, if I recall correctly, 45 percent that flows out of conservation area 3, presently through control structures into the Shark River Slough at Everglades National Park.

There is another 10 percent or thereabouts which flows from the coastal ridge on the eastern boundary of the park into Everglades National Park and includes that area of Taylor Slough and the C-1-11.

Mr. ASPINALL. Doctor, for the record, I wish you would furnish us your chart and graph and also a statement of the facilities that you have used in order to arrive at these percentages and I would ask that this information be placed in the record when received.

Mr. TAYLOR. In the absence of objection, so ordered.

Dr. HARTWELL. No objection. I can do it.

(The information referred to was not received by the committee prior to the printing of this hearing record.)

Mr. TAYLOR. Will the gentleman yield to me for a question of this witness? Which cities and units of government now secure their water supply from the Big Cypress area?

Dr. HARTWELL. Well, from a physiographic standpoint, considering what the Big Cypress watershed is, now, the Big Cypress watershed includes the area including the city of Naples as well as this area you people have under consideration and also includes as defined in a report by the U.S. Geological Survey an area which includes the Roberts Strand you were talking about.

Mr. TAYLOR. Let us take the area described in the administration's proposal.

Dr. HARTWELL. At the present time there would be very-the area under consideration, at the present time there are no municipal water supplies being taken from that. There are probably some individual wells for private use.

Mr. TAYLOR. In your opinion, in future planning will any of the cities or units of government in Florida have to turn to this area for their domestic water?

Dr. HARTWELL. It is possible, entirely possible.

Mr. CAMP. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. TAYLOR. I yield to the gentleman from Oklahoma.

Mr. CAMP. Doctor, just one short question. If for some reason or other the above surface water in this proposed area in the Everglades should cease, what effect would it have on the growth of-the growth area of the shrimp, blue crab, mullets, and so forth?

Dr. HARTWELL. There is no doubt their numbers would be severely diminished.

Mr. CAMP. Do we understand from shrimp alone that the economyit means about $20 or $22 million to the economy of Florida every year?

Dr. HARTWELL. I do not know exactly what the figure is but that is a reasonable figure, I believe.

Mr. CAMP. In other words, that would not include, then, the revenue from crab, mullet, porgy, or other fish.

Dr. HARTWELL. No, sir.

Mr. CAMP. Thank you very much.

Mr. TAYLOR. The gentleman from California.

Mr. JOHNSON. I would like to ask a question of Captain Pratt, who delivered a paper here for John C. Jones, the executive director of the Florida Wildlife Federation.

In your statement you are in full support of the Governor's position. of acquiring this land in fee, right?

Mr. PRATT. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. Do you have any idea that the Federal Government, if we were to make the investment of anywhere from $156 million as given to us by the administration and the $300 million or better that was talked about here this morning, that we would not hold control over that?

Mr. PRATT. No, sir. I do not believe so.

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, in all acquisition heretofore, wherever the Federal Government goes in and sets up some type of area, whether it be a national park or national monument, historic site or national recreation area, or in a wild river situation, we hold controls under some agency of the Federal Government to guarantee protection, and the questions we asked this morning about the water rights, I think if the Federal Government was to acquire in fee, then the waters that fall on Federal lands will be pretty much under their control.

Mr. PRATT. Yes, sir; I agree. However, the stand of the federation is based on several things that the Governor has said he would like to see or he offered, I believe is the term he used. He offered the management resources of the State of Florida concerning the game and fresh water fish commission to take part of this burden off of the Federal Government and this was put in testimony at the last hearing.

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, if the Federal Government was to come in and go through with this particular proposal, we are taking in the name of all of the people of the United States for the protection of the Everglades which belongs to all of the people.

Mr. PRATT. Yes, sir; this we understand. However, like I saidMr. JOHNSON. I just want to get the position clear.

Mr. PRATT. The federation stand is merely to back up the Governor who has offered to help in the administration of the area.

Mr. JOHNSON. The reason we are asked to come in here is because the State of Florida is not able, I guess, financially to go into this, and what we have seen heretofore, it looks as though they are not able to manage the area the way it should be either under existing State law and local law. That is why it is being developed the way it is at the present time.

Mr. PRATT. It seems to me we are kind of splitting hairs. The State is managing the lands under the Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission now and according to the operation of the Game and Fresh Water Commission, that is what we do. They manage the game and fresh water fish.

However, the land management now is being left under local or State zoning or local land owners or as such and the federation believes that with the acquisition of the Big Cypress by the Federal Government

with the Federal Government allowing or even requesting that the State offer a form of management to assist out in the projects, that this would be the best for the overall view.

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, the statement of the Governor read here, he was in favor of acquiring all lands and your department under State government recommends the same thing. Now, if the Federal Government is coming in to take over, naturally they will hold the key to management. Otherwise, they would not come in.

Mr. BROWDER. Mr. Johnson, may I try to clarify something here? Mr. Pratt does not represent an agency of the State development. He represents the Florida Wildlife Federation, Sportsmen's Federation, hunters and fishermen organized as private citizens.

Mr. JOHNSON. I thought he was a part of the Florida Game Commission.

Mr. BROWDER. No, sir. Florida Wildlife Federation. There is a reprepresentative from the Governor here so I cannot presume to speak for the Governor but I can state that the background of the State's offering to participate in whatever way the committee or Congress might see fit in the management of this area stems exclusively from the State's, as far as I can determine it, recognition that its resources are limited, that it cannot buy the land but it wants to be in the position of saying look, we will do what we can to help you all protect this land and there is no position on anyone's part that the State has to manage the land in order to make it worthy of acquisition. That is not anyone's position.

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, we have seen the same thing in most any area that the Federal Government went into to set aside for one purpose or another land under the National Park Service and there is only one way and that is fee title to the land or the important land and here we are trying to protect the investment in the Everglades and eventually those people will be paid off and the in-holdings picked up down there, I presume, before too long. Then, we have to protect it for all time, for posterity.

Now, if this is the only source of water to do that, I think the Federal Government has to acquire it so that they have control of the water. Otherwise, the Federal investment does not amount to much.

Mr. BROWDER. Yes, sir. Our organizations, all of those that are listed on the letterhead-I did not bother to read them because you have copies all are for the fee acquisition of the area, including all interests, and that includes the water rights. We are also, however, strongly in support of continued hunting and fishing and that is one. of the reasons why management of the game under rules and regulations of the Florida Fresh Water Fish and Game Commission is required.

Mr. CAMP. Will the gentleman yield at that point?

I understand in some of the legislation that we have introduced that it contains language permitting hunting and fishing and trapping in the reserve except that the Secretary of the Interior may designate zones where the hunting and fishing and trapping may be permitted for public safety purposes and it will be administered, and so forth. Would your organization be in favor of this type of legislation? Mr. BROWDER. Yes, sir.

Mr. PRATT. The Florida Game, Fresh Water Fish Commission operates on this basis and principle, and operates exclusively within that statement that you just put forward. This is one of the reasons it was brought forward.

Mr. CAMP. Thank you.

Mr. TAYLOR. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

Mr. J. R. Spratt, president, Alico Land Development Company.

STATEMENT OF LLOYD HENDRY, ATTORNEY AT LAW

Mr. HENDRY. Mr. Chairman, my name is Lloyd Hendry. Mr. Spratt was unable to be here today but he asked me to say he would like to prepare and file a written statement within the next 10 days with the committee.

Mr. TAYLOR. In the absence of objection, the record will be kept open for 10 days for Mr. Spratt and anyone who wishes to file a written statement with the committee.

Mr. HENDRY. I appreciate that.

(Mr. Spratt's statement follows:)

STATEMENT BY J. R. SPRATT, ALICO LAND DEVELOPMENT Co., LA BELLE, FLA.

My name is J. R. Spratt. I represent Alico Land Development Company which company is engaged in the production of cattle, citrus and timber. I wish to say at this point that this Company owns no land in the area involved.

I consider myself a conservationist. I have been connected, directly and indirectly, with conservation work all my adult life. Following graduation from N.C. State, I was employed by the Department of Conservation in North Carolina. In 1948, or some 24 years ago, I came to Florida as manager of the properties which I now represent.

I think I can say that I was one of the pioneers of conservation in Southwest Florida. Our Company established, in cooperation with the State of Florida, the first forest fire control unit south of Hillsborough County. Also, in conjunction with The Collier Company, we were instrumental in developing plan under which the two companies, the Florida Forest Service and U.S. Forest Service, set · up the first forest research station in South Florida. As a laboratory for carrying out such work, our Company leased to the U.S. Forest Service, for a 20-year period, without charge, almost 4,000 acres of forest land.

We have on Alico lands a game management program which is considered by many as second to none in the State and one which I believe will compare favorably with any in the Nation.

In recognition of such work, our Company received in 1958, an award from Florida Wildlife Federation and in 1959, a regional award from the Soil Conservation Service and an award from the Florida Forestry Association for outstanding contribution to forestry in Florida.

Included in my work at N.C. State were courses in Botany, Plant Physiology, Biology and which included ecology, the latter being under a man who was considered an authority on the subject at that time. I have tried to continue as a student of these subjects as they applied to various phases of my work.

I bring this out since the subjects of conservation, wildlife and ecology have been injected into public hearings on this subject.

Having the responsibility of multi-use management of over 200.000 acres located in Collier, Hendry, Lee and Polk Counties, Florida, I have devoted much study and effort to water control and its relationship to animal and plant life, both domestic and wild. I am familiar with the Big Cypress and have reasonable knowledge of animal and plant life and water conditions therein.

I have tried to study and analyze much of the material released on the Big Cypress Swamp and the Everglades National Park which has included numerous reports and statements by officials of the Department of Interior, other public agencies and individuals, public hearings and Big Cypress report which was prepared by the Department of Interior.

I feel that many reports, numerous releases by the Department of the Interior and/or individuals, and statements at public hearings have, in many instances, either ignored or failed to take into consideration historical data of these areas. I have heard and read much of the importance of a continuous supply of fresh water to the Everglades National Park. I do not believe the Everglades National Park ever had a continuous supply of fresh water. Certainly during many months of the so called dry season no water flowed from the upper reaches of the sawgrass Everglades or from the Big Cypress into the Park.

The Park has always been subjected to floods and droughts. During years of abnormally heavy rainfall an abundance of water was available, whereas, during years of lighter rainfall the Park suffered from drought. In fact, ecology of the area is a product of such condition.

Southwest Florida has an average annual rainfall of from 50 to 54 inches. We find, however, wide fluctuation from year to year, ranging from a low of some 30 inches to a high of 65 to 70. Further, some 65 percent of the annual rainfall may usually be expected during period June 1 through October, usually referred to as the wet season, with the remaining 7 months being relatively dry. This situation has always existed and we may expect it to continue.

The Park receives about 85 percent of its water from rain which falls on the Park. Therefore, historically, the amount of the water in the Park is in direct proportion to the amount of rainfall.

As result of the works of the Central and South Florida Flood Control District and allocation of water handled by such works, the eastern half of the Park is now receiving annually more fresh water than ever before. While works of the Flood Control District have no effect on much of the western half of the Park, it is receiving as much water as it ever received.

In letter from Mr. Roger Morton, Secretary of Interior, to Hon. Carl Albert, Speaker of House of Representatives, in February of this year, he states in last sentence, paragraph 4, page 2, and I quote: "All of the remainder of the park, considerably more than half of the 1,400,533 acres within the authorized boundaries, is dependent upon the Big Cypress for its supply of fresh water."

I cannot agree with this statement. As brought out above, some 85 percent of the Park's water supply is from rainfall on the Park with little more than 15 percent flowing into the Park from the Big Cypress Swamp.

In the many discussions which I have heard, public hearings, articles, reports on the Big Cypress and the Everglades National Park, I find no suggestions or statements indicating that any effort is being made by the Park to conserve any of the water which falls thereon or which flows into the Park from the upper reaches of the saw grass Everglades or Big Cypress Swamp. I feel that a considerable portion of the water which falls upon the Park and which may flow to the Park from the areas mentioned is wasted during periods of heavy rainfall by allowing it to flow into the Gulf of Mexico. To my knowledge, no action has ever been taken to slow down the flow of water within the Park. It is my sincere belief that reasonable action in this respect would mean much to shorten periods of drought. Nature can be wasteful and I believe much can be done in the way of conserving water which the Park may receive either from rainfall or overland flow without causing any adverse effects to the ecology of the area. In this connection, I should like to quote the following taken from In Depth Report of the Central and South Florida Flood Control District:

"SOUTH FLORIDA'S WATER RESOURCES ARE ADEQUATE

"Despite recurring drought problems in Florida, South Florida's water resources, on the average, are more than adequate, so indicated in the State Department of Natural Resources' Map Series 33, 'The Difference Between Rainfall and Potential Evaporation in Florida.' This document shows this to be particularly the case along the east coastal ridge and even in the Everglades Conservation Areas.

"But water resource planning and management cannot be based on average values. The marked seasonal pattern of South Florida's annual rainfall, together with the larger cycles of wide variations in annual rainfall totals, ensure the continued occurrence of surplus and 'waste' of water and periods of deficiency and drought. These latter periods will occur despite the fact that averages indicate this is an area of water surplus. A technique for 'dampening' the effect of these extremes is the provision of carryover storage.

"Clyde S. Conover, Florida District Chief of the U.S. Geological Survey has said, if discharge to the ocean is held to a minimum, there will be on the aver