Mr. BENNETT. I would think that along 17 there are powerlines. Not big powerlines but like ordinary telephone poles.

Mr. McCLURE. Well, you generally have problems with respect to the management of such an area if a powerline easement exists because there are some conflicts between the purposes of the preservation of the area and the easement that is granted and the clearing that must be done in order to maintain a powerline. The reason I ask the question is, are we getting into such conflict here?

Mr. BENNETT. No; but we might want to protect against doing so. I think there might be easements for telephone activity. I think if it does now exist, it is so unobtrusive I've never noticed it. But I'm sure there must be a power or telephone line along 17 in the roadway.

Mr. McCLURE. I wonder, Mr. Hartzog, if you would provide for the committee some kind of an indication of what kind of powerlines or telephone lines exist across this area that are not immediately adjacent to and parallel to the two major highways or perhaps the third one being the coastal highway that traverse the area.

Mr. HARTZOG. I will be happy to.

Mr. MCCLURE. And if you could ascertain whether any are projected for the immediate future.

Mr. HARTZOG. I would be glad to explore it.

Mr. McCLURE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no further questions.

(Map submitted for the record follows:)

Mr. TAYLOR. The gentleman from Michigan.

Mr. RUPPE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Hartzog, can you project at what time we will actually have a definite, certain map of the area to be included in the park proposal other than what we have at the present time, an identification of the 400-foot mark from the ocean.

Mr. HARTZOG. Well, that's our professional recommendation I cannot speculate on what the shape of the boundary will be until the Department makes a decision on this particular area based on the material which they now have.

Mr. RUPPE. Assuming the Department's support of the 400-foot concept, would it be possible within a relatively short period of time to identify the specific land?

Mr. HARTZOG. If they support this concept, that is it, there.

Mr. RUPPE. And that is a definite map from which we could draw boundaries?

Mr. HARTZOG. That's right. And then on the basis that we've identified landownerships and maybe evaluations

Mr. MCCLURE. Would the gentleman yield?

You've heard the testimony with respect to the Jacksonville Prison Farm land which was outside this 400-foot criteria?

Mr. HARTZOG. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCCLURE. Would your personal opinion at this time be that that should be included or excluded?

Mr. HARTZOG. I don't have an opinion on it, now. We're going to take a look at it because we were unaware of it until Congressman Bennett talked about it the other morning. We're going to have a look at it and either include it or else enter into a cooperative agreement with respect to the maintenance of the environmental factors there. Either way would solve it and in either case, the city has indicated whatever is included, they will donate so it's not going to affect the land aquisition figure.

Mr. RUPPE. Are there any other areas outside of the 400-foot mark in which you might have an interest for inclusion in the legislation? Mr. HARTZOG. There's an authorization in the bill for acquiring another 150 acres for an administrative site.

Mr. RUPPE. I'm referring to the specific points of historical interest. Mr. HARTZOG. We don't know of any right now but if they come up we'll have to come back and amend the legislation if we want to acquire them.

Mr. RUPPE. And you've indicated that State lands will be retained under State ownership and administered cooperatively?

Mr. HARTZOG. Those that are State parks, yes, sir. Those that are State parks

Mr. RUPPE. Are there lands other than those identified as State parks that will go over to Federal ownership?

Mr. HARTZOG. Yes, sir. It looks as though some small pieces of State land may be involved that would be donated to the Federal Government based on that ownership map. But the State parks are the ones that they are interpeting and preserving as cultural property, and they would definitely stay under State ownership.

Mr. RUPPE. How about the county lands. Would they stay under county ownership?

Mr. HARTZOG. It's anticipated that all that estuary area there would be federally owned. The county has 1,842 acres and the city has 44 acres of that ownership now.

Mr. RUPPE. Will any of these lands be retained by the county or do you anticipate them all going under Federal ownership?

Mr. HARTZOG. I anticipate the 1,842 acres going under Federal ownership.

Mr. RUPPE. In developing a use or appreciation pattern, if you will, for the park, do you intend to restore the old historical sites or do you intend to also have some interpretive centers that might be built as guideposts that are entering the area?

Mr. HARTZOG. There will be signing. There will be interpretive centers and there will be overlooks and of course, trails, as a part of the development program.

I was just looking here

Mr. RUPPE. Are some of the old historical parks-sites you indicated there being restored so that people can see generally the way the facilities or buildings were many years ago?

Mr. HARTZOG. Generally, our first priority is stabilization, then restoration and finally reconstruction, but only if it is essential to convey the interpretive story so that reconstruction is seldom if ever done. It is stabilization, restoration, and then reconstruction if it is essential to communicate the interpretive story.

Mr. RUPPE. Plus some new construction for administrative or recreation?

Mr. HARTZOG. Oh, yes. We're proposing to build an administration. and recreation center there. Yes, sir; there will be an entirely new facility.

Mr. RUPPE. You indicated, or Mr. Bennett did, that a lot of the lands in the northern part of the territory are paper company-owned? Mr. HARTZOG. Yes, sir.

There are 825 tracts with 650 ownerships, and of this private land a great deal is in large ownership by paper companies here.

Mr. RUPPE. Have they taken a position on acquisition yet or, Mr. Chairman, will they be testifying when we are at any future point in the hearings?

Mr. TAYLOR. I couldn't answer that question.

Mr. HARTZOG. Mr. Bennett has been in touch with them and he testified earlier on that this morning.

Mr. BENNETT. None of them have expressed any opposition. A good number, most of them, have indicated they would be willing to donate their land, that is at least the marshes.

Mr. RUPPE. That's a remarkable statement. I think you'd better get Congressman Bennett on your advisory board if he's managed the paper companies that way. I think it will be the first time that they have come in with such a suggestion.

Mr. BENNETT. Well, they suggested a firm proposition that they would give 100 acres of hard land, worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. They told me that they were willing to hear from me at any time when the law is passed or the issue settled. They are in no way legally or morally bound at this time.

Mr. RUPPE. Well, I think that many times they resist giving up property ownership on the grounds that it limits their ability to supply pulp or paper. I think it's remarkable on their part and I think it's an even more remarkable sales job on the Congressman's part. I think we will suggest him as the next Treasurer of the United States or maybe the IRS chief.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. TAYLOR. Does the gentleman from Colorado have any questions? Mr. ASPINALL. I have no questions. I think mine have been asked. Mr. TAYLOR. Well, before we adjourn the hearing, let me state that absent objection, the record will be kept open for 10 days in case other witnesses wish to submit statements.

The following resolutions were submitted for the record by Congressman Bennett with permission granted on page 15.

RESOLUTION

A BILL to be entitled an act to authorize the donation of State-owned land to the Federal Government to assist Congress in establishing the Florida Frontier Rivers National Cultural Park; providing an effective date.

Whereas, it has been found that the virtually unimpaired Nassau River Estuary is the only one of three estuarine rivers-the Saint Johns, Nassau and Saint Mary-that graphically illustrates the historic setting and natural environment that shaped the heritage of the area and in addition possesses important scenic, natural, ecological, scientific and other values contributing to public enjoyment, inspiration and scientific study, and

Whereas, Congress has concluded that it is in the national interest for the United States to join with State and local government and private institutions, groups and associations to preserve and interpret the Nassau River estuary and associated cultural and historic sites and buildings of Northeastern Florida in such manner and by such means as shall achieve public understanding and appreciation of the heritage fashioned by the past and present interaction of man with his environment, and

Whereas, H.R. 586, in furtherance of the above objective, has been filed in the House of Representatives for the 92d Congress, 1st Session, to authorize the establishment of the Florida Frontier Rivers National Cultural Park, which will initially consist of the Nassau River estuary and the Castillo de San Marcos National Monument, Fort Mantanzas National Monument and Fort Caroline National Monument, and

Whereas. H.R. 586 provides for the acquisition of property by donation, purchase with donated or appropriated funds, or by exchange, and

Whereas, lands, waters and interests therein owned by the State of Florida or any political subdivision thereof may be acquired only by donation,

Now Therefore, Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Florida : Section 1. All of the State-owned marsh lands and stream bottoms in the Nassau River Valley and in the valley of its tributaries will be conveyed to the United States Government for national park purposes in the event H.R. 586 becomes law and the National Park Service establishes a national park in this area and location.

Section 2. In the event the project in section 1 above is abandoned within a period of twenty (20) years after H.R. 586 becomes law, the ownership of all State-owned marsh lands and stream bottoms in the Nassau River Valley and the valley of its tributaries which have been conveyed by this act shall revert back to the State of Florida.

Section 3. This act shall take effect immediately upon becoming law.

RESOLUTION

Whereas, there is pending in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives legislation that would establish the Florida Frontier Rivers National Cultural Park, and

Whereas, a park embracing the three estuarine rivers in northeastern Florida-the Saint Johns, Nassau, and Saint Marys would unify a nationally