citizens, somebody has to have the courage to speak up against some of the very popular positions of today about the environment and the appreciation of the studies, and that is to have the courage to ask ourselves what actually-whose conscience would it affect if the ammunition ship should blow up in Apra Harbor and destroy millions of dollars of property, and destroy human life. I just want to be sure that this goes into the record, because we are all for the appreciation of esthetics, the natural beauty of the land. I think that there is really an area that we can accomplish to blend the two interests of both the military and the civilian, but I think it is all a matter of recognition of human values, and it is some of these areas that sometimes makes us lose faith in the individual dignity of the people.

I think that, if the U.S. Government were to not think too much in terms of money, I think it can provide a solution, because with modern. technology, we could probably have an ammunition facility in Sella. Bay, but with a tremendous expenditure of money make it completely safe so that, during loading or offloading of ammunition, it would not in any way threaten the safety of the people in the area. But I think it is a question really of how far do we go to spend the money, the millions and millions of dollars we spend in Vietnam, this foreign aid. But every time we seem to consider things which are necessary, particularly in nature that affect our own people-and let's identify ourselves as Americans all this business of Guamanians and so forth I think makes us lose sight-or Navy-we are all Americans. Let's look at it from that prospective: What is good for everyone? We have to live with the realities of life, that the national security is just as important for anyone. Maybe one day we can melt all this metal and turn them into plowshares, but I don't think that time, that stage, has yet arrived. That if the Nation should spend all that money to provide the ammunition facilities there at Sella Bay, in order to protect lives and property and at the same time open new opportunities for the commercial port, I think it can accomplish this if there is no limitation for the funds to do it, or accomplish it, and this is now not being too mercenary, but the evaluation of the cost, and hopefully that the design of these facilities would then, should we hopefully arrive at a time that we have peace and there is no need for such heavy military facility in the area, that then it can become a national facility for future accomodations of show areas that would enhance the environmental protection of the

area.

It doesn't even take a large structure to provide some umbrella for ship ammunition unloading. It could possibly become a structure that can accommodate an aquarium-facilities which can ultimately complement the area for fish exhibits and so forth. I even suggested to the admiral at one confrontation with him, I said even the transporting of the ammunition to the present facility here around Fena Reservoir, why go through the highways and drive with trucks through our villages? Why don't you build a tunnel? But I know what that would cost, a couple of hundred million dollars. But if we are not measuring things in terms of cost now, figuring the amount of moneys our Nation spits out in foreign aid, and even in the present conflict in Vietnam, I don't feel that this is an area that we ought to economize. So I think we can accomplish something that would bring equity to everyone and would actually both enhance not just the people of Guam's interest but also the national interest.

Now, as far as the private landowners, the few that are involved in this tract, I think that these people would be very, very cooperative if we follow the approach that some of the testimony earlier has made. and that is just to give them a fair exchange for similar land values and similar character of land which the military holds. But you see. this is what I mean. We have to have an attitude of cooperation, not a very self-narrow interested approach by the different agencies. So the military has to also give in a little. It has tremendous tracts of land adjacent to our Tumon area; the NCS area, where there is already a powerplant located. Some of that land can safely be developed for commercial purposes.

Now, if these lands are made available in exchange for the few private landowners at Sella Bay area, I think we can arrive at a very amicable settlement. I think, if we just become very reasonable about this whole thing and not be emotional about it, we could arrive at a very compatible solution. But if we all look at it from our own selfish standpoint. I don't think we are really going to get anywhere. Mr. JOHNSON. I understood you to say you were a seven-term senator. You ran for the Governor in the last election. Your comments are pretty comprehensive. They cross the jurisdiction of an awful lot of committees in trying to arrive at what you would like to do. Many of us in Congress don't always agree with what other committees are doing, or with what Congress does, as individuals, but we have to abide by the majority, and sometimes we don't have our say.

We came out here to take a look at the territory that is involved in these two proposals. We want to understand the relative problems, and develop a record here from the local people. I am appreciative of the fact that you gave us a general statement here, and on behalf of the problems before us.

If we could shut off foreign aid, or have peace for a generation, or do away with military expenditures, or the arms race, we could do a lot of things for all areas. But, at the present time, we are confronted with maintaining a few friends in the free world and we are confronted with our national security and defense. We are confronted with all of our domestic problems in the United States and its territories. So we are going to do the best we can and give consideration to what has been said here today.

First, we will ask for reports from the various agencies on these two bills that are pending. After receiving those reports, we will then proceed with the legislative process. As you know, this is a very preliminary hearing. This is the start. But we did want to bring the committee responsible for this area to Guam to allow the people to tell us their views and to develop this record.

Now, I appreciate your statement very much.

Mr. BORDALLO. Thank you for the opportunity to make a comment. Mr. JOHNSON. Anyone else?

(No one else came forward.)

Mr. JOHNSON. Any comments from the gentleman from Missouri? Mr. BURLISON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of brief comments as we conclude these hearings.

I am making my first trip to Guam. This is the first time I have been out in the Pacific Area. I hope that I can come back more frequently in the future.

I have been extremely impressed, in my 3-day visit with you, of the total loyalty of the people of Guam to the American Government, I have been very impressed with this, and I think all of us appreciate it. I think this point was emphasized very dramatically when I saw on the memorial that you have here recently constructed showing that there have been about 60 of your islanders that have been killed during the Vietnam conflict, and I think that a study would bear out the fact that this certainly is a disproportionate bearing of casualties for this war. This is a further illustration to me of the patriotism and the loyalty of the people of Guam to the American Government.

I have been extremely impressed by the hospitality and friendship of your people. I want to express personally my deep appreciation for this. And when I say friendship and hospitality, I mean not only of the officials of the Guamanian Government but the individual citizens as well.

I have been very impressed by the beauty of your island, and I think that maybe we have been very fortunate in selecting 3 good days to be here in that the sun has shone brightly on each occasion. We have had no rain. It seems like everything has been ideal and perfect.

I want to express, Mr. Chairman, one short comment on my judgment of our hearings. I am looking in retrospect. I am disappointed that we haven't had an official position from the military authorities with respect to this development. I do think that, if and when hearings are held in Washington, that certainly due notice should be given to these authorities so that we can have a full hearing on many of the issues that have been broached in this hearing, and so that those witnesses may be available for full cross-examination and full questioning before this committee to bring out in full detail all of the many ramifications that are involved in this legislation.

In conclusion, I want to express my very deep and greatful appreciation to your very able and capable representative in Washington, Tony Won Pat. He has been and is doing an extremely outstanding job for the people of Guam in Washington, and I am certainly honored to have been associated with him these past years I have been in Washington, and I look forward with great anticipation to serving with him and making great accomplishment in the years to come for the United States of America and for the people of Guam. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

[Applause].

Mr. JOHNSON. The gentleman from Michigan?

Mr. RUPPE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly want to echo what has been said by my colleague a few minutes ago. We have all been delighted with the opportunity to see and enjoy your island, to get a better understanding of the topography and the seashore. You have a wonderful thing here that is unique to the United States and is certainly well worth coming 5,000 miles from the west coast of the mainland to see and enjoy. I can certainly understand your desire to reserve and conserve these assets to the greatest extent possible.

You have expressed your interest in having a national historical park developed, and in the legislation that would establish a Guam National Seashore; you are very correct in expressing your concern over the land use that would be a part of such a development, or national park, because certainly once the legislation is framed,

passed by the Congress, and is the law of the land, any local input to a major degree simply ceases to exist. So your concern now over the wise utilization of your lands is a very important judgment for you to make. And likewise, I think it is very wise that you call for a local measure, perhaps a strong local measure, of local planning regarding any national park or seashore proposal. Certainly, you appreciate better than anyone else the values that exist on your island and the potential for enhancing what you enjoy, and what so many others would enjoy. The idea of having a local planning input is a very worthwhile idea and concern on your part.

I would also like to say that we have enjoyed and appreciated the testimony of the senators and the comments that your able representative Mr. Won Pat has made before us long before we came here. We have also appreciated the comments and the very able testimony of the Governor's representative. He himself has testified before our full committee, and I have had an opportunity to meet Governor Camacho a number of times in Washington. Your views and desires are very wisely and ably represented and stated by the people that you have sent to Washington.

One of the pleasures of being in politics-and I have not been here a very long period of time--is that it gives one an opportunity to see new things and new places and to make friends in areas where one would never have an opportunity to make these friends except for being in politics. I feel this is true in my own district in Michigan, which is about 500 miles in length. It is even more true that politics has given me an opportunity to come out to Guam and meet the many wonderful people that live here. My trip to Guam, and the 3 days that I have spent here have certainly been one of the real highlights of my political experience, and I shall certainly treasure them and look forward to returning here sometime in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[Applause.]

Mr. JOHNSON. I just want to close this field hearing with a few remarks.

We were sent out here to hear from the local people, to look over the area, to develop a record, and to be able to go back and report to the Committee on National Parks and Recreation that we were satisfied there is interest on behalf of the two bills that are pending at the present time in Congress. If the bills are to move forward, there will be departmental reports requested by the chairman of the full committee and then handed over to the subcommittee chairman of this committee, Mr. Roy Taylor. After hearing from all of the Federal agencies involved, and including the Office of Management and Budget, of the administration, we will then set hearings on the legislation in Washington.

Now, I am certain that your representative, Mr. Won Pat, will be twisting our arms to get that report and to get this transcript to the chairman of the full committee and to the chairman of the Subcommittee on National Parks and Recreation at the earliest possible date. I am satisfied that there is enough interest here in both bills to warrant moving these bills in the Congress of the United States. At that time all agencies-including the military people, as well as the other Federal agency people-will make their positions quite clear to us. Whether the reports are favorable or unfavorable, we must have their

views, then we can make a decision as to whether we want to go - ahead or not.

I do want to at this time say to all of the people of Guam and the representatives of the Government here that I don't think there has ever been a subcommittee that has made a trip to an area that has been treated more hospitably than we have been. We were entertained. We met with the chamber of commerce for luncheon. We were at the Governor's mansion for a reception. We had a very interesting day yesterday at Umatac. People there were most hospitable. We ate most of their very fine Guamanian lunch, and then we took the trip on the waters of the area. Then again last night we had the opportunity to meet with the members of the Guam Legislature where they put on a very fine reception and Japanese dinner at one of your very fine new hotels.

Now, today we have had nothing but cooperation from the local authorities here and from the speaker. I do want to thank him for the use of this facility. It is quite an honor to come here and use the halls of the legislature to hold a hearing. The first thing we had to do this morning, I think, was remove your name from the speaker's rostrum back there, but I am sure it will be replaced as soon as we get out of here. So on behalf of all of us, I take this opportunity to thank you and all the members of your legislature and staff for the cooperation given.

Now, with any legislation such as this there is bound to be some confusion. Unfortunately, there is bound to be someone hurt in the establishment of a national historic park and a national seashore. You can't please everyone. Congress will do its best, as we move forward with this, to take care of most problems that come to our attention. If we resolve them satisfactorily to all, fine. But we may have to just please the majority, if that is the situation at the time. I do know this, that in setting up the new park or recreation area, every consideration is given to the local area. I don't want you to think that we are 9,000 miles away and that no one cares too much about what goes on in Guam when we move this legislation, if we do, because I think we are all sincere.

Most of us have had national park facilities created in our own backyards. We know what it means, and I don't think there has ever been a time in the country's history when we moved forth with more new national park facilities than we have in recent years. The gentleman that we introduced, Mr. Griswold, is in charge of that. I think he is kept busy from morning to night trying to figure out how to solve some of the problems called forth in pending legislation.

The National Park Service people have been very, very helpful to our committee. They are the experts in this particular field, and we are sort of jacks-of-all-trades. We work very closely with them.

With that, I want to say, personally, that I have enjoyed my trip. This is my first time out in the Pacific. I have started it half a dozen times and have never gotten here, but I am very glad that we were able to be here and come here at the time when your weather is perfect and the hospitality is the greatest ever. I look forward to coming back.

The subcommittee now will stand adjourned. [Applause.]

(Whereupon, at 4:51 p.m., January 15, 1972, the hearing was adjourned.)