Prof. DICKIE: If that is generally understood, I withdraw the motion. I made the motion to explain what I said.

Rev. Mr. TALBOTT: Mr. Chairman: In a very emphatic sense I have the misfortune to be ruled out by this motion. As I said before, I am a representative of an organization covering three States.

A DELEGATE: On the point of order suggested by the gentleman just speaking, that further debate is out of order, I protest. A point of order has been raised by Mr. Thomas, of New York, that further debate is out of order.

The PRESIDENT: The Chair decides that the point of order is not well taken. It is a very indefinite position that the Chair himself occupies. He represents three bodies, and under the resolution he has no status in this Convention, in his own opinion, and the motion by Prof. Dickie defines his status. The Chair decides that the point of order is not well taken.

Rev. Mr. TALBOTT: I am appointed a delegate by a body which I think is a very respectable body, and I am a resident of the city of Providence. The body that appointed me holds its sessions in New London, Conn.; the body to which I am to report will hold its session in New Bedford, Mass. I do not know how I am going to have any status at all under a vote such as is now proposed, and I protest against that, inasmuch as the body to which I belong was invited to send delegates here, and which has sent me here, and it seems to me that justice itself prompts the adoption of the report as presented by the Committee, and we should vote down the motion before us now.

A. M. POWELL, of New York: Mr. Chairman, Ladies, and Gentlemen: It seems to me the main preliminary business of the Convention has been well settled. On this motion of Prof. Dickie I desire to say just a word or two to the effect that the definition which he proposes for himself and the delegates in general certainly would not fit my case. I represent a religious body on this floor which has its abiding place in two States. Neither of the State delegations would be competent if they desired to nominate me on the Committee on Resolutions. I do not want to be nominated on that committee; but I have here companions who represent that body, men and women, every one of whom will be ruled out of the privileges and the opportunities of service on the most important committee of this Convention. I believe in women speaking for themselves, but lest my wife should not speak for herself, I want to say that she represents another religious body

that has its abiding place in more than half a dozen States. What one of these States would have any right to place her in that position? It is an injustice to undertake thus, on any plea whatever, to limit the position of any member in this Convention. I quite sympathize with the remarks of the Chairman, for when the motion was made I said I am sure I also am disfranchised so far as service on this committee is concerned. I do not believe this Convention wishes anything of the sort, either with reference to myself or my friend Mr. Dickie; and I want to say with regard to the whole preliminary work suggested by this Committee of Arrangements, I am in a position to affirm that it has been in the spirit of utmost fairness and impartiality. The cause we are here to serve is infinitely beyond any other interest, and we should, as professing Christian men and women, on these rare occasions of our national gatherings, keep this uppermost in our minds. I ask the Convention not to take the action contemplated, because I believe it disfranchises the Chairman, disfranchises myself and my wife, and the two delegations to which I have referred. The method proposed by the Committee is the best method.

Prof. SAMUEL DICKIE: Mr. Chairman, Ladies, and Gentlemen: I fear that my good friend Mr. Powell does not understand the application of the status case at this moment. The Convention has decided by an almost unanimous vote to raise its Committee on Resolutions by one member from each State. What does that mean? Does it mean State organization? I move, simply for the purpose of expressing our meaning or defining our action, that we consider that action to mean all delegates, no matter by what body sent, residing in the State of New York for example, shall belong to the New York delegation. I do not believe that will disfranchise Mr. Powell, unless he lives in Canada, or some other part of the country outside of the United States. I have no word of criticism to pass upon any contemplated action of that Committee so far as the personnel of it, or the names of the parties that should come thereon, are concerned. I simply doubt the wisdom of having what we call the National Convention, governing all the preliminary work of a prohibitory character, prepared beforehand; and I simply want that this shall be a great Temperance Convention in the best sense of the term. I did not come here to seek personal or party advantage, and I exceedingly regret that Dr. Kynett so far forgot the proprieties of the occasion as to introduce what I hoped would not appear on the floor of this Convention in thought or in purpose, for or against any political party. We have

decided that there shall be one member from each State; and I hope the last motion will prevail. I think you wish to decide that it does not govern the State, but does govern all within the State; that no body sending delegates is bound by the action of the Convention. It is absurd to stand on this floor and claim that the Order of Good Templars and other organizations are in any way morally responsible, in the minds of the people, for the action of this Convention.

Dr. KYNETT: Mr. President: I think it is manifest to the Convention that if we had accepted the advice of the song of our colored friends, and kept "in de middle ob de road," we would have avoided getting into the brush. We have lost two hours this morning by turning aside from the middle of the road, and I think about the best thing we can do is to get back into the middle of the road and go forward. I regret that my friend, Prof. Dickie, should have supposed that I had forgotten for a moment the proprieties of this occasion. It is perhaps that I am over-sensitive as to the proprieties of this occasion that I felt compelled to say what I did. I will not retract, because I think I have pretty fully covered the ground. A point of order was made that Dr. Kynett's remarks were foreign to the question under discussion.

The Chair decided that the point of order was well taken, and it was sustained.

Dr. KYNETT: The motion as I understand it is to define an action that was-may I say it?-hastily taken. it?-hastily taken. I think so.

Mr. J. L. THOMAS, of New York, rising to a point of order, said: We do not need to criticise an action that has been taken and passed. Will the gentleman give way for a call for the previous question?

Dr. KYNETT: I will give way to a motion to extend time, but I cannot give way to a motion that practically subjects me to the mode of capital punishment that exists in the commonwealth of New York. There is one body of gentlemen closely allied and intensely in earnest for the solidity of their organization in all the States. I think it would be possible, if they were so minded, to go into the delegations of the several States and name the members of this committee. I do not say you mean to do it. I say it seems to me it is possible to do it. I move to substitute the recommendation of the Committee for the pending motion, for the appointment of a Committee of fifteen, and undoubtedly the President can select them from all the States.

The PRESIDENT: Dr. Kynett moves to substitute that the Chair

man of the permanent organization shall appoint a Committee on Resolutions consisting of fifteen.

Mr. RANSOM rose to a point of order, claiming that this question had been settled before.

The CHAIRMAN decided that the question was in order.

M. M. EVANSON, of Pennsylvania, rising to a point of order, said: This motion of Dr. Kynett is out of order for the very reason that it attempts to substitute for a motion that is now pending a motion that will be in opposition to the action of this Convention already in hand. We have already agreed to the appointment of this committee by a certain method, and now we are attempting to define who are delegates, and that would be substituting a motion that has already been passed.

The CHAIRMAN: The Chair would say that the pending motion, as regards the appointment of members of a Committee on Resolutions, and as a substitute for the motion that affects the appointment of such members, would be perfectly in order. The question was first: The resolution offered by Prof. Dickie defining the status of members of the Committee on Resolutions. In substance it was that members of the different bodies here represented vote in the States where they reside. On that question Dr. Kynett moves as a substitute for the whole matter that a Committee on Resolutions consisting of fifteen members be appointed by the Chairman of this Convention. The gentleman from Pennsylvania made the point that that question was already settled. The only way to correct is to move a reconsideration of that motion.

Dr. KYNETT: We have not voted on that question at all. (A voice Yes we have.) I was about to say, Mr. Chairman, when I was subjected to these chronic interruptions, that as a question of fact we have not voted at all on the original proposition of the Committee. The Chairman of the Committee after a hasty consultation accepted the proposition of Prof. Dickie. I propose to go back and move as a substitute that the Permanent Chairman appoint a committee of fifteen.

On a point of order raised, Dr. Kynett's motion was declared out of order.

Dr. KYNETT then moved to lay on the table Prof. Dickie's pending motion, which was carried.

Dr. KYNETT then moved a reconsideration of the motion, that the delegates from the several States make the appointment.

Prof. DICKIE rose to a question of order to ask whether Dr. Kynett voted in the affirmative. Dr. Kynett answered he thought he did.

A DELEGATE: If I understood, he stated, a few minutes ago, that the question had not been voted on at all, and now he says he voted upon it.

Dr. THOMPSON, of New York, inquired what the motion was.

The PRESIDENT: The motion is the reconsideration of the vote that the delegates from the several States make the appointment. In reference to the point of order raised, Dr. Kynett stated that he voted in the affirmative. The point of order is overruled.

Rev. G. L. THOMPSON, of New York: I voted in the affirmative, and I thought that Dr. Kynett did not, and would make a motion; I was led into an error. I am persuaded that we will do great injustice to the bodies that sent us here, inasmuch as this is not a mass-meeting, but a delegate body, from bodies that have elected us. We are morally responsible to our bodies. The delegation I have come with represents a religious body containing over 300 clergymen. Membership 50,000 to 60,000. That membership covers portions of two different States. Now, it will be unfair to the body sending us here to distribute that Committee so that we shall have no representative voice. So I wish to correct my mistake. I therefore favor this resolution.

Mr. J. L. THOMAS, of New York, moved to lay the motion to reconsider on the table.

The motion was put and lost, 42 voting in the affirmative, and 60 in the negative.

Mrs. H. C. CAMPBELL, of Pennsylvania, called for the reading of the minutes of the morning session so far as they related to the motion under discussion.

Mr. J. N. STEARNS, of New York: The Chairman of the Committee accepted the motion to appoint by States, but there was a misunderstanding as to what it covered; some thought it covered the three committees, and others only two. It was not fairly understood by the Convention when adopted.

Dr. POULSON, of New York, arising to a point of order, said: The motion made by our sister from Pennsylvania does not refer to the question as it now stands. If it be in order I arise in particular to call for the previous question.

The Chair decided the point well taken.

Mr. J. H. BRONSON, of New York: When I came to this Convention I did not think the great question that we would consider here was the question of organization. I came here for other purposes. It does not matter to me who the Permanent Chairman of this Convention is, if he is a sensible man, or who the committee