Mrs. ROGERS. I would like to file this statement. I do not want to take the time of the committee at this late hour.

The CHAIRMAN. You will be granted that right to file a statement. File it with the clerk, and she will see that it is incorporated in the record.

Mr. GOODWIN. Representing the Eighth District of Massachusetts, I do not want to take the time of the committee now, but I would like to have the opportunity to file a statement.

Mr. HESELTON. I represent the First Massachusetts District, and I should like to have the opportunity of filing a statement later on. The CHAIRMAN. That opportunity will be afforded you.

Mr. HOLMES. I should also like to have the opportunity of filing a statement with the committee at a later period.

The CHAIRMAN. You may do so. The opportunity will be given to

you.

STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES L. GIFFORD, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

Mr. GIFFORD. Gentlemen, I have been through all this. They went after me in my own district where I fought against this very sort of thing for 20 long years. They came in there to take our rights away from us, to take our lands away from us, and up in Massachusetts we feel that that is something which is very important to us, it is our reason for living there, and we feel very deeply on the subject. To the people of Massachusetts, and certainly in my district, land is not just a mere amount of soil, but it is something which is ingrained into' the very bones of the inhabitants. We fought this thing the best we could. I attended meetings with Secretary Ickes himself presiding. How in the world that man, and those followers of his, could have resisted the testimony given at that meeting is simply beyond me, and I believe it is beyond all human understanding. These people that gave the testimony from Massachusetts were practically unanimous in their testimony against it, and still they did not seem to have its effect. But I am overjoyed in telling these men and ladies here that you are now before a committee of Congress, the Agriculture Committee, and they understand the deep love of the land that some of us still have. There are men here who have a sympathy of understanding, a broadness of perspective, and a deep underlying Americanism which I know will cause them to approach this thing on the proper basis. I know that you have a deep and sound understanding, the same understanding that I feel I have, and I sympathize with these people who are so interested in wildlife and its preservation, and I want you to know that up on Cape Cod we get numbers of them who come up there, mostly Audubon men, you have heard it before, and others that have frozen the shooting of birds to 2 or 3 months or less, so that I cannot go out and shoot like an ordinary citizen, but only the real sportsmen that arrive up there, and they shoot me out in 30 days, and there is nothing left. That is what this thing has boiled down to.

I don't know just how this thing is going to come out. I own the land, and I thought I would have the right to go out and shoot some ducks, but these high-powered sportsmen, members of the Audubon Society, they arrive with their bags and their pump guns and they

shoot me out in 30 days, and there you are. And as for me, I never could quite understand why they have taken my birthright away from me, and I am very wishful that I might get it back. Some of these men have gone into the Federal organization, and they have become greatly interested in this thing, and you can well understand that. Though I have been here 20 long years, they still show me something in these cases that is unexpected, because, indeed, they are very clever, so I am very much concerned with these matters, and what their outcome will be. I admit that they do put in a lot of time on it and they make out a very good case if you listen to their words and forget the facts. If you remember the facts, that is all you need to do.

I simply want to say to you that if you will hear the other side, they will probably tell you that as soon as they get back they are simply going to take lands that otherwise would be abandoned, and that all of this stew and strife is really about nothing at all when you get right down to it. They can be very persuasive, of that I can assure you. They are going to want to take it away under the assumption almost that they sold the land, because it was going to be for purposes for which they never would have sold it, in fact, and, therefore, since they have gotten this land, therefore, they cannot abandon because it would be a part of the consideration that it was to be used for the purposes for which it was sold when it was sold-or they condemned it-and, therefore, there is no way that they can abandon it or give it back. They want to allow two or three fellows to stay on the land, but they will be living on land which is no longer their own, and that is an untenable situation.

The summer people can come along there, and they can stay there for summer purposes-they cannot stay during the winter-but they do not want to be under any such arrangement as this, they do not want to have a new landlord, none of us like to be in a position where we have to listen to this particular landlord, because a Federal officer when you go upon the property, he is going to want to know a lot about you, and get your name and what you are there for, and a great many other things, and it certainly is a very disagreeable experience.

I have been taking clams all of my life, and I know a great deal about this clam business from actual, personal experience. I know the clam beds have to be taken care of if they are to be fruitful, and 1 know that you have to take great care of them to see that they are properly grown, and that they are not contaminated, and many other things. It is a very big job and a very important one. We have to do a lot of things in order to make these clam beds a success, and they have been a success in the past. Now we are making a move which if we allow it to go ahead will destroy this great industry in this section, a great industry for these people, a self-supporting, self-reliant, true American type of industry. We are not asking help from anybody else. We do not want to be meddled with, not only those who make their lives at it, but when a native wants to eat some clams, you have heard about these famous beds of clams, and they do serve a very fine purpose. They are splendid in peacetime, in prosperity, and when hard times come they serve a very valuable purpose in that they can go down there and earn their living, and they can have something to eat. This is something that is just as natural and as much a part of the lives of these people along the coast of Massachusetts as anything you could

suggest. I want to remind you that we feel you are taking a birthright away from us, and you are taking away from my people, and over my most violent protest and the violent protest of those people who are concerned.

I do want to say to those who have come in here that you have come in here to the right place and you have come to the right committee here. You do not have anybody who has to overcome and get away from a false impression as to the importance of the work in wildlife so much that they cannot see anything else. We have had to get permission to shoot gulls, because gulls eat the clams. Everybody knows that they do terrific damage. I might tell you this, and it may come as a surprise to some of you who are not familiar with it, that a gull is a pretty smart bird. They will pick up a hardshell clam and fly up very high and drop it on a rock or on a wharf because it is impossible for them to get into it otherwise, and in that manner they are able to break it and get at it. They do a lot of damage. I love ducks, but I can only shoot them for 30 days in a year. And so these very fancy gunners who are the largest percentage of the members of the Aubudon Society, they come up there and they simply clean me out and I find that upon investigation they are the men who make the big contributions to the Aubudon Society, and they are the great fellows for this matter of conservation. They have worked out this open and shut system of game so that they go on shooting on down South, and one of the wealthiest sportsmen who I have found out is a very large contributor to the Aubudon Society sent me a goose from down in the Carolinas. I have a great deal of confidence in this committee, and I wish the committee were all here because I have known for many, many years all of them personally, and I know their viewpoint, and it is the correct viewpoint. I think they will do the right thing to save these lands.

FURTHER STATEMENT OF HON. MAURICE J. TOBIN, GOVERNOR OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS

Governor TOBIN. On behalf of the delegation that has come here from Massachusetts I want to say a deep and sincere thank you. I appreciate how busy you must be in Congress at the present time. You have sat here for so many, many hours, and I know that you have other duties to attend to. Therefore, I would like to ask you to allow me the opportunity to submit a brief as to the damage that will be done by the project, the pollution that will be caused to the city of Newburyport water supply, if this Department of the Interior's dam goes through with the concomitant flooding of Crane Pond and the lowering of the level of the water table for the water supply of Georgetown. I shall submit these through our chief engineer. I know that every person here welcomes the opportunity of having been heard by you gentlemen here, who have heard these private citizens, and we appreciate that and are deeply grateful to you, the members of this committee, for having sat here so patiently while we have endeavored to present these facts and arguments in which we have been more sincere than in perhaps any other thing we could possibly have been engaged in, and I feel that final justice is going to be done.

Mr. POAGE. I want to suggest that if we pass this bill that you have, I do not see that you have made a specific claim as to mineral resources,

and I feel, based on past experience, that the Department will in all probability reserve the mineral rights if they should return the land. It seems to me the practice of the Governent when they buy a piece of land for an air field or for training or anything that they will reserve the mineral rights unless it is specifically provided.

Mr. BATES. If the bill needs to be amended to cover that, we certainly have no objection to it. I wish to take the committee's time just simply for a moment to say that you have seen these individuals from the State of Massachusetts, these plain people who have been represented here today, and I also want to say that I have only received about 10 letters in favor of the reserve as suggested by the Federal Wildlife Conservation Commission, and I have this great mass of letters, some inch and a half in thickness or more, perhaps three inches in thickness, who are opposed to the proposition.

The CHAIRMAN. Governor Tobin, as I understand it, you will furnish those reports later.

Governor TOBIN. As to the effect of this dam being built upon the water supply of Newburyport and the Georgetown water supply.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. You desire to have that appear in the record. Governor TOBIN. I would appreciate that very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it is so ordered. The report when it is received will go in the record at an appropriate point. If we have nothing further, I will adjourn the hearing until Dr. Gabrielson gets back from London, which I understand will be around the 8th of December. I will give Dr. Gabrielson and such others as desire to appear in opposition an opportunity to be heard, after which I will give the people of Massachusetts the right to answer any arguments advanced in support of the carrying on of the further taking of this land, and of the whole propect. You will leave with the clerk the names of those who you wish to be notified when the hearing is resumed. I will be glad to send notices to those so that you may appear here at that time if you desire.

Governor TOBIN. Immediately I would say that I would like to have Mr. Arthur Weston present at the time Dr. Gabrielson testifies or, if you could furnish us with a transcript of his testimony and an opportunity to appear before the committee, I believe I would like to have that. I believe I should also like to have a representative of the Attorney General of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts present, Mr. Coddaire, and probably one or two additional witnesses so that they could meet the arguments that may be advanced.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe it would be well for the Attorney General's office to be represented here at the time the hearings are resumed so that they can hear just what is said by those in support of the project.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM P. WHARTON

Mr. WHARTON. My name is William P. Wharton. I am chairman of the Massachusetts Conservation Council. I would like to make here a statement which has been corrected and revised to November 19, 1945, being a statement relative to the Parker River Wildlife Refuge adopted by the Massachusetts Conservation Council at its meeting on November 7, 1945.

The filing of the bills H. R. 4362 and H. R. 4364 and S. 1496 in Congress to abolish Parker River Refuge changes the entire situation as

it has heretofore existed. It is now no longer a merely local dispute but a serious threat to the very foundations of the waterfowl refuge system of the national conservation program. The Massachusetts Conservation Council finds an urgent need for prompt and decisive measure to halt this backward step.

With a view to learning more fully the circumstances of the controversy and the relative merits of the refuge, the chairman and other members have investigated the situation and submitted for the information and guidance of constituent members the following summary.

Parker River National Wildlife Refuge at this time is a refuge in being and is under active administration by the Fish and Wildlife Service. A refuge manager, patrolman, and biologist are now employed on the area and additional laborers will be as fast as the program is developed. Five waterfowl banding stations are also in operation.

It comprises 12,368 acres of land and waters classified as: brush, 325.35 acres or 2.6 percent; crop and orchard, 108.45 acres, or 0.9 percent; crop, abandoned, 70.80 acres, or 0.6 percent; marsh, fresh, 407.40 acres, or 3.3 percent; marsh, salt, 3,734.30 acres, or 30.3 percent; miscellaneous, cottage sites, ice-house sites, and so forth, 97.15 acres, or 0.8 percent; pasture, brush, marsh, woodland, 829.60 acres, or 6.7 percent; pasture, open, 76.80 acres, or 0.6 percent; sand, dunes, and beach, 845.40 acres, or 6.8 percent; submerged, 52.80 acres, or 0.4 percent; swamp, 621.55 acres, or 5 percent; tidal flats, 160.85 acres, or 1.3 percent; woodland, 3,291.72 acres, or 26.6 percent. This leaves a total land of 10,623.17 acres, or 85.9 percent. Navigable waters, 1,745.20 acres, or 14.1 percent. This gives us a total of 12,368.37 acres, for a base of 100 percent.

Impartial review of the controversy is unusually difficult due to the welter of conflicting claims, rumors, and statements. It is necessary to keep constantly in mind that this confusion of issues is not the essence of the problem. In our opinion the whole situation comes down to two simple questions. These have been set up and answered according to the best information available.

The first question: Is this refuge needed, and if so, why? The second question: Is the creation of this refuge a reasonable step in view of all factors involved?

I might say that the Massachusetts Conservation Council is composed of representatives of 16 State-wide organizations interested in conservation.

1. Is this refuge needed, and if so, why?

The evidence at hand leaves no doubt in our minds on this question. The general vicinity has been choice waterfowling grounds for generations and in the day of shore bird shooting the slaughter can be attested by members of our own groups. With passing years the steadily growing army of sportsmen who hunt waterfowl has brought an increasingly acute need for adequate sanctuary at this locality. The incredible concentration of duck hunters on the Essex County marshes on opening days is unique. It is axiomatic with sound conservation that where heavy excessive hunting occurs upon hereditary waterfowl concentration grounds sanctuary must be given if waterfowl are to be maintained in sufficient numbers to provide an annual harvestable crop.