I strongly urge that you continue to make every effort to enable us here to continue the low-cost hot meals.

Thank you so much for your time.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Wynn.

I Mr. PEPPER. Mr. Wynn, on account of your relationship with the United Fund, is it your opinion that if we don't get the Federal Government to sponsor and take the primary responsibility for this program, that we won't have any practical chance of getting such a program in our area?

Mr. WYNN. I'm very much in agreement with that statement.
Mr. PEPPER. Thank you very much, Mr. Wynn.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Following Mr. Pepper's questions, Mr. Wynn, this is a theme that has been a reoccurring one during these hearings; why is it so difficult to win adequate county and State support for such programs, as the one contemplated here in Mr. Pepper's bill?

Mr. WYNN. I think primarily because State budgets can't afford it. Two, they may not be sufficiently aware of the need of the program, or if it's addressed in such a manner that they would give it the priority in which it's entitled, and while I think that the Federal demonstration effort has been good it may have been short, and it was not comprehensively adopted in this State.

Mr. BRADEMAS. The chairman would just like to observe that while he is sympathetic with that response, if you look at the Federal budget, that is also going to be in deficit, one could make the argument that the Federal Government can't afford it either, and, therefore, I would conclude that what we really need to do is make a choice-to make a choice among competing demands for scarce resources at the local, State, and Federal level. Then what we may have to do is say "No" to some demands and say "Yes" to others. This is my own opinion; that the kind of program represented by Mr. Pepper's bill is the kind that we ought to think very seriously about saying "Yes" too, and saying "No" to some other demands that we face.

Mr. WYNN. I quite agree. We at the fund have been giving this considerable attention since the demise of the recent program. I think the county has given it some consideration, and our overall hope is to establish this as a priority, and to relate to it in some partnership

manner.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you.

Mr. Hansen.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We wish to extend to you our appreciation for your very helpful. testimony. You mentioned a number of the conditions which have created the situation this bill is intended to convert, the large number of elderly people who do not have adequate diets. As you and other witnesses have stated, this is attributable to lack of funds and to lack of motivation and lack of facilities. I expect that even if a program like this were offered that there may be many who would be reluctant to take part in it because of maybe a feeling of pride, of not wanting to seek help from someone else.

My question is to what extent do you think that the institution of a program such as is contemplated by this bill will bring the people in who have the greatest need for the services that will be provided? Mr. WYNN. It is the mere availability of wholesome meals regardless of what structure you make it available under, will be attractive

enough to encourage people to partake. They're aware already that they're not getting wholesome balanced diets today, and when they try their meager resources will not allow them to purchase it. Therefore, it does not become, in my opinion, a handout; that it comes as a subsidy that they're very much in need of. And I think the organizational structure of delivering that service to them will remove any things from it that might make it appear that they've got their hands out.

Mr. HANSEN. Does this also bring in those who really can afford it, but for other reasons just simply don't provide themselves?

Mr. WYNN. It might well do so, but I would imagine that your guidelines will find some way of eliminating those who can afford it from taking advantage of it.

Mr. HANSEN. To touch another point that was made in your earlier testimony, isn't it also very important that they have the advantage of the other values that come in the participation, in kind of a group activity

Mr. WYNN. Yes.

Mr. HANSEN (continuing). That is part of an overall program, including the furnishing of meals?

Mr. WYNN. Sure. I think those services would continue to be funded. Mr. HANSEN. I would suspect that you might then agree to some extent to the observation made by Mr. Beckman, which I think was a very pertinent one, that is, with whatever resources we have available, and they're going to be limited, and they're not going to do as much as we would like to do. This is always the case with a program such as this. That perhaps some means should be developed to make sure that the dollars that are available can reach the largest number of people by applying some kind of a formula that is more responsive to the more critical needs.

Mr. WYNN. Right.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you very much.

Mr. BRADEMAS. The Chair wants to express his appreciation once more to everyone here in Florida for having extended the warm hospitality that you have shown our subcommittee. You have been most helpful. The Chair wants to call on the distinguished Member of Congress, who is the principle sponsor in Congress of this legislation, to say a final word.

Mr. Pepper.

Mr. PEPPER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, on behalf of my colleague, Mr. Fascell, and myself, and particularly on behalf of the senior citizens of Dade County, we wish to profess our profound gratitude to you and Mr. Hansen for coming here, giving our people an opportunity to be heard, and examining the relevant aspects of this measure.

It has meant much to me to have you here and you see by the response that you have received how much it has meant to our senior citizens. You have complimented them. You have manifested a concern about their welfare, which will be heartening and encouraging for them, and we also would like to thank you.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Pepper.

And again, I thank all of you, and our subcommittee is now adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 2:50 p.m. the Select Subcommittee was adjourned subject to call.)

OLDER AMERICANS ACT AMENDMENTS FOR

NUTRITIONAL SERVICES

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 1970

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SELECT SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 9:35 a.m., the Honorable John Brademas (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Brademas, Dent, Daniels, and Hansen. Staff members present: Jack Duncan, counsel; Ronald L. Katz, assistant staff director; Arlene Horowitz, staff assistant; Toni Immerman, clerk; and Marty LaVor, minority legislative coordinator.

Mr. BBADEMAS. Today marks the second day of hearings before this subcommittee on H.R. 17763, an amendment to the Older Americans Act of 1965, which would cover Federal contributions to States for the purpose of providing nutrition programs for the elderly.

We are pleased to have with us today the distinguished Congressman from New Jersey, Mr. Daniels, who will introduce our first wit

ness.

Mr. DANIELS. Mr. Conrad Vuocolo, the director of tenant services of the Jersey City Housing Authority is here to testify on this bill for a nutrition program for the elderly. He has worked most earnestly and most efficiently on their behalf to not only supply decent housing for our citizens but also to provide them with nutritional meals. As you are very, very well aware I believe the testimony before this committee will show that many of our senior citizens, because of lack of adequate finances, are unable to provide themselves with nutritious meals.

It is indeed a pleasure for me to welcome Mr. Vuocolo here, who is a close friend and comes from my hometown, the city of Jersey City. Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Vuocolo, you come very well recommended. We are pleased to hear from you.

STATEMENT OF CONRAD J. VUOCOLO, DIRECTOR OF TENANT

SERVICES, HOUSING AUTHORITY, JERSEY CITY, N.J.

Mr. VUOCOLO. At the outset, I would like to express my appreciation to my dear friend, the Honorable Dominick V. Daniels, who is my neighbor and my Congressman from the 14th District of New Jersey, who has arranged with the Honorable John Brademas, chairman of the Select Subcommittee on Education, for me to appear at today's session on the nutritional needs for older Americans.

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The United States of America discriminates against its older Americans when it comes to needed nutrition programs. It is my fervent hope that I can, in some small way, do something with my testimony to help knock out the double standard on America's nutritional programs, which is doing irreparable harm by denying needed, compassionate, and simple programing which will help our senior citizens stay alive.

For almost 20 years I have been involved with the Jersey City Housing Authority which administers a program of low-income housing for over 4,000 families comprising over 15,000 individuals. Almost half these families are senior citizens with an average income of a little less than $1,000 per year. In today's economy, all of us can readily see how it is impossible for these elderly individuals to obtain sufficient food which will keep them physically, mentally, and yes, even spiritually alert.

For the past 10 years, at least, we have been begging Washington officials to permit us to have a feeding program for the elderly, but to no avail. In 1961, as a delegate to the White House Conference on Aging, I presented a plan which will allow America to provide community kitchens for the elderly. My plea had no positive result.

Last year, we became involved with a children's feeding program which has been most successful, but only makes me believe, all the more, that our Nation so severely discriminates against the elderly nutritionally.

In the past year we have provided more than half a million servings in breakfast, lunch, and snacks with funding provided by the New Jersey Department of Education, and the U.S. school lunch program, with surplus commodities granted through the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Ironically, in almost all cases the food we served the youngsters was prepared by the elderly. They made sandwiches, baked cakes, prepared hot meals, which had to be served to the children but could not be served to them. They could see but not touch, they could smell the food they prepared but not eat it because of the unrealistic attitudes of our country's policies thus far.

We have asked the USDA, both through Congressman Gallagher and Congressman Daniels, to permit us to obtain surplus food which easily could be served to the elderly right at our own community halls without any further expenditures or cost to the U.S. Government. USDA says the Congress of the United States has their hands tied making it impossible to give us this food. The format will be exactly the same as the hot lunch program for schoolchildren which is now provided and which has been extremely successful.

Our constant pleas have fallen on deaf ears. The USDA can provide some limited articles such as flour, butter, corn meal and hominy grits and other staples of similar character for a meals-on-wheels type operation which handles approximatey 50 confined elderly, who meet the low income criteria, per day in the Jersey City area. This Meals on Wheels program, which is conducted from the Jersey City Housing Authority under the competent leadership of Mrs. Mary Johnson, is funded with approximately $30,000 per year from the OEO.

What the Jersey City Housing Authority would like to do is simply extend our Meals on Wheels service to feed those who are mobile and could come to a community hall and have a hot meal which would

be nutritionally correct and would provide a social outlet in that the diners would have much needed companionship.

When your committee fully realizes just the physical problems of elderly people going shopping, being faced with the spiraling costs, and trying to stretch their limited income to make necessary purchases for a meal, then your committee should begin to understand the meaningfulness of the hardships involved.

How many of you gentlemen dine alone without the benefit of service or companionship of others with whom to break bread? I have personally daily contact with elderly individuals who have been eating alone for 20 and 30 years.

I have read with great pleasure the contents of H.R. 17763, which hopes to provide grants to establish senior citizens community kitchens, which I hope will provide the low cost meal programs which are so desperatey needed. In every major city across the land and in many suburban and rural areas there are public housing developments that could and should eagerly open its doors in community areas to provide such programs.

We in Jersey City, through the intercession of our local Congressman, have for the past 5 years been funded by the Project Mainstream grant through the U.S. Department of Labor which allows us to hire persons 65 years of age or over. The Jersey City Housing Authority, since 1965, has hired 39 such individuals and has placed them in various hospitals, social agencies, city and county administrative offices where they were paid approximately 35 hours per work week.

Ironically, they are now involved in food service programs feeding the young in hospitals and public schools and students in nutritional programs. This is beyond belief to have the elderly working in food service programs which do not provide such feeding assistance for those in their own age category.

We strongly urge the passage of this bill, which will amend the 1965 Older Americans Act. We urge necessary surplus commodities allocations by the USDA, and we urge suitable work programing which will bring this nutritional program to fruition.

Last December 1969 I was a delegate to the White House Conference on Food, Nutrition and Health. Many of the discussions centered about the inability of America's elderly to eat properly on their limited budgets. We believe that the passage of your bill would fill the void brought out time and time again during this White House Conference. I pray there will be no long delay because a recent survey shows that some of the senior citizens living in our units are surviving on less than the price of three good cigars per day.

One recommendation I would like to make amending your bill would make it mandatory that all new public housing units for the elderly being built have the facilities and program schedule which will allow this time feeding program to be put into action.

The Jersey City Housing Authority stands ready, willing and able to be the very first in this Nation to make this program work with the enactment of this legislation.

When your bill is passed we would like to extend an invitation to your honorable committee, through our Congressman Daniels to come to Jersey City and see our feeding program for the elderly in action. Without question it will warm your hearts.