Mr. BATZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I shall be happy to.

The reason that I introduced myself as I did because this leads to the question or the recommendation in studying House Rule bill 17763, and the list of eligibility, everywhere at 65-it's 65 years of age or more. May I respectfully suggest this recommendation that the eligibility age be tied to social security age limits which is now 62, and in place of 65, because the age limit average will soon be 60 or less and rather than change the bill every year, and to everyone's whim, couldn't we—may I offer this suggestion?

Mr. BRADEMAS. Well, I think your point is one that is very well taken. I think that's one which our subcommittee will give very careful attention to when we get into what we call the mark-up part of the bill. Mr. Pepper, do you have any comment on that?

Mr. PEPPER. Mr. Batz, I would certainly gladly endorse such an amendment to the bill and I'm glad that you have made the suggestion. Mr. BATZ. Thank you. I do not want to feel that I'm an outsider for the next 3 years.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Well, thank you all very much.

Now, we have one final witness this morning before we break for lunch, and the Chair wants to announce at this point that we shall return for hearings after lunch at 2 o'clock. We have but two witnesses in the afternoon, and we hope to conclude by 3, if not earlier.

Our final witness this morning is Mr. Harold Friedman of the Florida State Council of Senior Citizens. Mr. Friedman, we look forward to hearing from you.

And again, Mr. Miller, Mr. Cervantes, Mrs. Romero, Mr. Batz, and Mrs. Brown, our subcommittee wishes to express our warm appreciation to all of you for your explicit testimony.

Mr. Friedman, we're happy to have you with us. Would you have a seat, sir, and be kind enough to identify yourself for the record, and then we'll be glad to hear from you.

STATEMENT OF HAROLD FRIEDMAN, MEMBER OF THE FLORIDA STATE COUNCIL OF SENIOR CITIZENS

Mr. FRIEDMAN. Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of this committee, my name is Harold Friedman. I'm here as a representative of Max Friedson who is the president of the Congress of Senior Citizens and the Supervisor of the Florida Council of Senior Citizens. Mr. PEPPER. Mr. Chairman, would you allow me to interrupt the gentleman. Max Friedson is one of the most outstanding, most dedicated citizens of this community for a long long time in the service of senior citizens. His is an illustrious name in the Council of Senior Citizens.

Mr. FRIEDMAN. Indeed, it is, sir.

The statement is rather short, so I'll read it through without any comment except as to say that I was considerably impressed to hear the testimony of this morning, and as it happens, this statement may, in effect, be a summary of what has been said and also introduce perhaps a new look or a new idea on which to give it further consideration. The members of the Congress of Senior Citizens take their hats off to our favorite legislator, Claude Pepper, and this distinguished committee for their keen interest in all senior citizens. We agree that the bill Mr. Pepper introduced as a "Nutrition Program for the Elderly”

will certainly fill a much desired necessity in the daily lives of many senior citizens. It will undoubtedly help to keep many of them out of the nursing homes and hospitals. This will not only help in preserving the good health of the senior citizens, but the savings on hospital and nursing home costs should go a long way toward financing this program.

We heartily approve the nine points listed under the "Nutrition and Other Program Requirements."

1. To establish a program which will provide at least one hot meal a day.

2. To provide such nutritional program for individuals aged 65 and over, and has just been suggested perhaps only 62 and over.

3. To furnish a site for such a program within walking distance. 4. To utilize methods which will assure that the maximum number of eligible individuals may have an opportunity to participate. 5. To provide a setting to include recreational facilities, and so forth.

6. To include such training as may be necessary to enable the personnel to carry on.

7. To establish and administer the program with the advice of competent people.

8. To provide an opportunity to evaluate the effectiveness, feasibility, and cost of each particular type of such program.

9. To give preference to persons aged 65 or over for any staff, fullor part-time, for which such persons qualify.

We are especially glad to see that our esteemed Mr. Pepper has included point 9. It has long been our contention that there are many senior citizens who can be of great help in the administration and service of any government agency, especially those planned for senior citizens. After all, these people have a lifetime of experience in various fields, they have the understanding gained by their previous years of activity, and they certainly have a greater ability to cope with people of their own age which the young social service and welfare workers have yet to learn.

It seems to us that such a program should aim to supply the needs of those who have no available funds for food, for those who are unable to shop or cook for themselves, and for those living on small fixed incomes who have to "count their pennies" to provide for their daily meals.

For those who have no available funds, I suppose the welfare department could help to provide this need from some central location. For those who are unable to shop or cook for themselves, this gram could provide meals prepared at such a central location and delivered to their homes several times a week.

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For those on a limited fixed income, these facilities would be most desirable to help them get at least one daily nutritional meal at a price they can afford to pay.

It seems to us that the facilities of the school cafeterias that offer lunches for schoolchildren could be extended to accommodate this program of feeding the seniors as well. The waste of manpower and the waste of good nutritional food at these centers is simply enormous. Better planning and supervision could easily develop these centers as the most practical facilities to implement this nutrition program. Here

again the oldsters could be organized to help themselves and help others in the preparation of the food, in the serving of the food, and other incidental chores towards the proper maintenance of the establishment.

All in all, this nutritional program for the elderly will help to solve another problem for the seniors, and we will refer this bill to our Political Action Committee who will follow it up in the House of Representatives and in the Senate until it is enacted.

I thank you.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Friedman.

Mr. Pepper?

Mr. PEPPER. Mr. Friedman, I certainly want to thank you for that excellent statement. It has been very helpful to us and we appreciate your being here.

Mr. FRIEDMAN. Thank you, sir.

Mr. BRADEMAS. I, too, went to express my thanks to you, Mr. Fried

man.

I take it that the particular new suggestion that you want this subcommittee to take into account is the idea of making use of the existing mechanism for school lunch programs to afford an opportunity to provide hot meals for senior citizens; is that your thought?

Mr. FRIEDMAN. That is exactly the main point that has not been fully developed at this hearing as yet. I have information from people who have been working in these facilities, and they are the ones who complain that they're overstaffed, that the enormous amount of food that is wasted and thrown into the garbage is absolutely sinful, and there is no reason why a facility that is already established could not be further extended to accommodate some of these ideas in this nutritional program. It would be easier to us that something that is already established rather than to start a new facility.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much.

Mr. Hansen?

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for a very helpful statement, Mr. Friedman. I was particularly interested in the suggestion that you made which is, indeed, a constructive one. Much of the discussion this morning which has involved the desirability of furnishing one hot meal and one nutritionally balanced meal each day has really dealt with the noon meal. And I'm wondering what the feasibility would be in keeping with your suggestion that a staff and the facilities that are now in being be more efficiently used; that they furnish a meal other than the noon meal. Now, most of these schools, it occurs that they use these facilities to serve a hot lunch.

Mr. FRIEDMAN. Yes.

Mr. HANSEN. And they utilize these facilities capacity during the noon time. What practical problems are associated with using these facilities to furnish breakfast or an evening meal?

Mr. FRIEDMAN. Yes. Well, there is no reason why these facilities couldn't be extended to serve any additional purpose, because they are already there; they're already staffed and there's a great deal of food there which is not consumed, for one. Now, if it were possible for the elders; for those people to step in there and work in conjunction with the staff and plan the distribution of the food, and plan

the preparation of the food, why, this could not be perhaps not only a lunch but an evening meal as well. And at the same time, since you are kind enough to dwell on this, I would strongly suggest that these facilities; these schools themselves and the entire facility that the schools have to offer be taken into consideration as a supplement to this, when we speak of recreation, when we speak of cultural activities. These school buildings are idle for a good deal of the time, and there is no reason why we can't make better use of these facilities. And this may be one of the contributions which the county or the State can make toward developing this program to its ultimate fulfillment.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you again for a very helpful suggestion. Mr. FRIEDMAN. Ladies and gentlemen, I have a very ample idea, if I may? Why can't they use the school buses to transport these people who need transportation to such facilities? That's a point that's well worth considering.

Mr. PEPPER. Mr. Chairman, if you will allow, I thought of that idea, mentioned it to Mr. Gilman when I was sitting at the table where you are beside Mr. McLoud, who is the representative of the State and he said that there was a State regulation which forbade the use of school buses for such purposes as that. I don't know why that is, but it seems to be.

And if my colleague will allow me to make one other comment, I think your suggestion is an interesting one about the possibility of the use of the school. Of course, in the daytime the school facilities are pretty well occupied.

Mr. FRIEDMAN. Right.

Mr. PEPPER. It might well be that an early evening dinner might be prepared by the schools and perhaps school facilities might be employed while others are furnishing some of these other services which are desired. Your suggestion is well worth looking into.

Mr. FRIEDMAN. Mr. Pepper, when you say that the law forbids us to do certain things, you have been a legislator long enough to know that if we make a law, we can change the law.

Mr. PEPPER. It's a State law and I'm sure these people can change that.

Mr. FRIEDMAN. We'll assist you to our political action committee to get that action if it's required.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you very much, Mr. Friedman. The Chair wants, again, on behalf of himself and Congressman Pepper and Congressman Hansen, to express our appreciation to you for having come, and to the Metropolitan Senior Center, who has afforded us the hospitality of their splendid quarters.

We are now going to recess, to return at 2 o'clock sharp for the final two witnesses. And we are now recessed.

(Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the Select Subcommittee on Education was recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m., the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION, 2:10 P.M.

Mr. BRADEMAS. The Select Education Subcommittee will come to order for the purpose of further consideration of the bill introduced by Congressman Claude Pepper, H.R. 17763, a bill to amend the Older Americans Act of 1965, to provide for low cost meal programs, nutri

tion training, education programs, opportunity for social contacts, and for other purposes.

We have two witnesses this afternoon and we should like to move as expeditiously as possible because we must get a plane back to Washington. We're very pleased to welcome as our first witness Dr. Jean Jones Perdue, a member of the board of directors of the Senior Centers of Metropolitan Dade County, Inc., and a person who has served in other positions of responsibility in the field to which this legislation is, in this case, directed.

Dr. Perdue, we're pleased to have you with us. Would you please go right ahead.

STATEMENT OF DR. JEAN JONES PERDUE, A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE SENIOR CENTERS OF METROPOLITAN DADE COUNTY, INC.

Dr. PERDUE. Mr. Chairman, I am Jean Jones Perdue, M.D., medical director of continuing patient care division of Jackson Memorial Hospital and president of Florida Council on Aging. For the past 912 years, I have been a member of the board of directors of Senior Centers, Inc., and chairman of the medical advisory committee.

Soon after the beginning of senior centers, we as a board and especially the medical advisory committee, felt the necessity of serving low-cost meals to our members. Through contributions from the community and with volunteer services of the members, a nutritious noon meal was provided. Around this program developed our educational and activity programs, particularly in nutrition and health maintenance. The social contacts made by our members helped them plan the wonderful programs that have kept them active and giving to life. The health maintenance program which has coordinated community agencies to provide health education and resources has been, we have felt, one of the best in the country. The low-cost meals project of 1966, made possible by the Older Americans Act of 1965, has provided resources to meet the needs of hundreds of people. When our community was to have taken this over in 1969, and failed to do so because of the cut in millage in county taxes, made necessary by the acts of the State legislature, panic ensued among our members. Fortunately, through appeals of the media to our community, volunteer services of the members and the use of aides, this program has been kept going. It is a must, if the health and welfare of our senior citizens are to be maintained. By your very bill, H.R. 17763-introduced May 21, 1970, by Congressman Pepper-this type of program can be expanded to meet the needs of a much larger group of people.

As a physician of over 35 years in Florida, I have cared for many older people and have known that nutrition and prevention of isolation, and loneliness, have been the keystone to success in maintaining the well-being of these people. It is extremely difficult for a person alone to keep up interest in eating and living and they soon deteriorate. Depression and apathy then set in and they become ill. In this day and time, with the cost of medical care skyrocketing, the very preservation of health maintenance more than ever becomes a must-both from the humane and economical standpoint. I know of no other measure that