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NATIONAL AUSTRALASIAN CONVENTION

DEBATES.

2 March to 9 April, 1891.

INDEX TO SUBJECTS.

Abbreviations:-adj., Motion of Adjournment; m., Motion; obs., Observations; pers. expl.,
Personal Explanation.

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South Australia Literary Societies' Union, 174.
Suva Chamber of Commerce, 905.
Sydney Chamber of Commerce, 905.
Tuckurimba Progress Committee, 722.
Victorian Chamber of Manufactures, 108, 174.
Women's Christian Temperance Union, 174.
Warrnambool Citizens, 264.
ADJOURNMENT:

Obs. on motions for, Mr. McMillan, 6, 721 ;
the President, 6, 512; Mr. Munro, 7, 263,
512; Mr. Dibbs, 7; Mr. Baker, 8, 513;
Sir John Bray, 264, 513; Mr. J. Forrest,
264, 515; Sir Samuel Griffith, 511, 513:
Mr. Abbott, 512, 513, 788; Mr. Clark, 512;
Mr. Barton, 513, 514, 788; Mr. Thynne,
513; Mr. Dibbs, 514; Sir John Downer,
514; Mr. Brown, 721.

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COMMITTEE, REPORT OF CONSTITUTIONAL :
Motion by Mr. J. Forrest, that a copy of the
report, so soon as prepared, be forwarded
by the President to the delegates, 515; de-
bated by Mr. Munro, 516; Mr. Donaldson,

COMMITTEE, REPORT OF CONSTITUTIONAL (ctd.):
Sir George Grey, 518; withdrawn, 519;
report presented, and motion by Sir Samuel
Griffith that the report and appendices be
printed, agreed to, 521.

COMMITTEES, APPOINTMENT OF:

Motion by Mr. Suttor for appointment of a
committee to deal with the finance, taxation,
and trade regulations, with power to report
its conclusions to the Convention, 500;
motion withdrawn, 502; motion by Mr.
Barton referring the resolutions reported to
the Convention by Committee of the Whole
to two committees, the one for consideration
of constitutional powers and machinery, the
other for consideration of provisions relating
to finance, taxation, and trade regulation;
and directing that upon the result of the de-
liberations of the committees, the committee
on constitutional powers and machinery pre-
pare and submit to the Convention a bill
for the establishment of a federal constitu-
tion, 501, 507; debated by Mr. Playford,
502, 504; Sir John Downer, 502; Colonel
Smith, 502; Mr. Deakin, 503; Sir Samuel
Griffith, 503, 506, 508; Mr. Cuthbert, 504;
Mr. Wrixon, 505, 509; Mr. Dibbs, 505;
Mr. Munro, 506; (amendment by Mr. Clark
that a committee be also appointed to con-
sider the question of the establishment of a
federal judiciary, agreed to, 506); Dr.
Cockburn, 507; resolution, as amended,
agreed to, 509; committees appointed, 509,
510; motion by Sir Samuel Griffith that in
the event of the absence of any member of
a committee the delegation by which he
was chosen may have power to choose another
member in his stead, agreed to, 510; motion
by Mr. Barton that a majority of the com-
mittees form aquorum, agreed to, 510.
COMMITTEES, CHAIRMAN OF:
Motion by Mr. Munro that Joseph Palmer
Abbott, Esquire, be appointed Chairman of
Committees, agreed to, 313; motion by Mr.
Barton that Mr. W. Moore take the chair

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA BILL:
Motion by Sir Samuel Griffith referring draft
bill to Committee of the Whole Conven-
tion, 521; debated by Mr. Wrixon, 534;
Mr. Baker, 542; Mr. Clark, 546; agreed
to, 550.

In Committee:

Preliminary Provisions.

Clause 1 (Short title), 550. Amendment by
Mr. Munro to change the name
66 common-
wealth" to "federated states," 550; nega-
tived on division and clause agreed to, 557.
Clause 2 (Application of provisions referring
to the Queen) agreed to with verbal amend-
ment, 557.

Clause 3 (Power to proclaim commonwealth of
Australasia) agreed to, 557.

Clause 6 (Repeal of Federal Council of Austral-
asia Act), agreed to, 558.

Clause 7 (The constitution and laws of the
commonwealth binding) agreed to with
verbal amendment, 560.

Chapter I.-The Legislature.
Part I.-General.

Amend-

Clause 2 (Governor-general), 560.
ment by Sir George Grey providing that
the governor-general may be elected, 561;
negatived on division, 573; clause verbally
amended, 574. Amendment by Mr. Baker
that the governor-general may exercise such
powers and functions as are contained in
schedule B, and such other powers and func-
tions not inconsistent therewith, 574; with-
drawn, 578; clause verbally amended and
agreed to, 578.

Clause 3 (Salary of governor-general), 578.
Amendment by Sir Harry Atkinson pro
viding that parliament shall be left free to
deal with the question of salary, 578; with-
drawn, 581. Amendment by Sir John Bray
that until fixed by parliament the annual
salary shall be £10,000, 581; negatived on
division, 584. Amendment by Sir George
Grey that the annual salary be not less
than £6,000, negatived, 584; clause verbally
amended, 584. Amendment by Mr. Deakin
to prevent alteration of salary of governor-
general during continuance of office, 584;
negatived, and clause, as amended, agreed
to, 585.

Clause 6 (First session of parliament) agreed
to, 585.

Clause 8 (Privileges, &c., of houses), 585.
Amendment by Mr. Adye Douglas to omit
the provision giving the senate and house of
representatives the powers appertaining to
the House of Commons, 585; negatived, and
clause verbally amended and agreed to, 587.

Part II.-The Senate.
Clause 9 (Senate), 588. Amendment by Mr.
Munro to reduce the representation in the
senate from eight to six members for each
state, 588; negatived, 590. Amendment by
Mr. Kingston to enable the state legislatures
to adopt such system as may commend itself
to their judgment for choosing the senate,
590; negatived on division, 598. Amend-
ment by Sir Samuel Griffith that the senators

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA BILL:
in each state shall be certified by the governor
to the governor-general, agreed to, and
clause, as amended, agreed to, 599.
Clause 10 (Mode of election of senators) agreed
to with verbal amendment, 599.

Clause 12 (Retirement of senators) verbally
amended and agreed to, 603.

Clause 13(How vacancies filled), 603. Amend-
ment by Mr. Barton that the houses of par-
liament shall choose senators to fill vacancies,
604; negatived, and clause agreed to, 605.
Clause 15 (Qualifications of senator), 605.
Amendment by Mr. Macdonald-Paterson
that senators must have been for ten years
resident within the limits of the commen.
wealth, withdrawn, 606. Amendment by
Mr. Adye Douglas to abolish residential
qualification, 606; negatived, 608. Amend-
ment by Mr. Macdonald-Paterson provid-
ing a residential qualification of seven years,
withdrawn, 609. Amendment by Mr. J.
Forrest providing a residential qualifica,
tion of three years, negatived, 609. Amend-
ment by Sir Samuel Griffith that a senator
must have been a subject of the Queen at
least five years before he is chosen, agreed
to, and clause, as amended, agreed to, 610.
Clause 16 (Election of president of the senate),
610. Amendment by Sir John Bray to
alter the method by which the choice of the
president shall be made known to the go-
vernor-general, negatived, and clause agreed
to, 611.

Clause 19 (Disqualification of senator by
absence) agreed to, 611.

Clause 22 (Quorum of senate) agreed to, 611.
Clause 23 (Voting in senate) agreed to, 612.

Part III.-The House of Representatives.
Clause 24 (Constitution of house of represen
tatives) agreed to, 613.

Clause 25 (Qualification of electors), 613.
Amendment by Dr. Cockburn that no pro-
perty qualification shall be necessary for
electors, and that each elector shall have
a vote for one electoral district, 614; with-
drawn, 628; resubmitted, 636; negatived
on division, 637. Amendment by Mr. Bar-
ton that the parliament of the common-
wealth may make laws prescribing a uniform
qualification of electors, 628; negatived,
636; clause agreed to, 637.

Clause 26 (Provision for case of persons not
allowed to vote) agreed to, 638.

Clause 29 (Periodical reapportionment) agreed
to, 639.

Clause 32 (Qualification of member of house
of representatives). Amendment by Mr.
Deakin providing for a three years' resi
dence within the limits of the common-
wealth, 639; agreed to on division, 640.
Amendment by Mr. Cuthbert that a mem-
ber must be a subject of the Queen for at
least three years before he is elected, agreed
to;
and clause, as amended, agreed to, 640.
Clause 37 (Disqualification of members).
Amendment by Mr. Gordon that the place
of a member shall become vacant if for four
consecutive weeks during a session he fails

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ment by Dr. Cockburn to omit the pro-
vision requiring a resolution of the house
before the speaker issues his writ for the
election of new members, 642; negatived,
and clause agreed to, 643.

Clause 41 (Duration of house of representa-
tives), 643. Amendment by Sir John Bray
that every house of representatives shall
continue for three years from the day
appointed for the first meeting, 644; agreed
to on division, 652. Amendment by Sir
John Bray that parliament shall be called
together not later than thirty days after
the date appointed for the return of the
writs for a general election, agreed to, and
clause, as amended, agreed to, 652.
Clause 43 (Continuance of existing election
laws until the parliament otherwise pro-
vides) agreed to, 653.

Part IV.-Provisions relating to both houses.
Clause 45 (Allowance to members) agreed to,

655.

Clause 46 (Disqualification), 655.

Amend-

ment by Mr. Wrixon that if a person has
been convicted of treason, felony, or in-
famous crime, he shall be disqualified, pro-
vided that he has not received a free
pardon from the Crown, 655; negatived on
division, and clause agreed to with verbal
amendments, 659.

Clause 48 (Disqualifying contractors and per-
sons interested in contracts) agreed to, with
verbal amendment, 660.

Clause 49 (Place to become vacant on accepting

office of profit), 660. Amendment by Mr.
Thynne that the clause shall not apply to
members of the military or naval forces who
are not in receipt of annual pay, withdrawn,
661; and consideration of clause postponed,
662. Amendment by Sir Samuel Griffith
that the clause shall not apply to persons
in receipt only of pay, half-pay, or a pension
as an officer of the army or navy, or in
receipt of pay as an officer or member of
the military forces of the commonwealth,
agreed to, 898.

Part V.-Powers of Parliament.
Clause 52 (Legislative powers of parliament) :
Sub-clause 1 (Regulation of trade and com-
merce), 662; agreed to, 670.

Sub-clause 3 (Raising money by taxation),
670. Amendment by Mr. Dibbs that the
parliament shall have power to raise money,
if required for defence purposes in time of
war, by any mode other than customs and
excise, negatived, and sub-clause agreed to,
679.

Sub-clause 4 (Borrowing money on the public
credit of the commonwealth), 679; agreed
to, 683.

Sub-clause 7 (Navigation and shipping).
Amendment by Sir Samuel Griffith that
"munitions of war" stand as sub-clause 7,
683; agreed to, and sub-clause agreed to,

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA BILL:
Sub-clause 13 (Banking, incorporation of
banks, and issue of paper money), 684;
agreed to, 685.

Sub-clause 19 (Status of foreign corporations),
685; agreed to, 686.

Sub-clause 21 (Service and execution of pro-
cess and judgments of the courts of one
state in another state), 686; agreed to, 688.
(Additional sub-clause proposed by Mr. King-
ston to give power to the parliament to
make laws for the establishment of courts
of conciliation and arbitration for the settle-
ment of industrial disputes, 658; with-
drawn, 689.)

Sub-clause 23 (Immigration and emigration)
agreed to, 689.

Sub-clause 27 (River navigation with respect
to the common purposes of two or more
states or parts of the commonwealth), 689.
Amendment by Sir Samuel Griffith to
provide for the conservation of water, 690;
withdrawn, and sub-clause agreed to, 692.
Sub-clause 28 (Control of railways with re-
spect to transport for the purposes of the com-
monwealth). Amendment by Mr. Gordon
to include the regulation of traffic and
traffic charges, 692; negatived on division,
697. Amendment by Mr. Clark to prevent
discriminating rates being charged for rail-
way service by any state, company, or
person, negatived, 697. Amendment by
Mr. Baker to give power to establish a
uniform gauge of railway, negatived, sub-
clause agreed to, 698.

Sub-clause 30 (Exercise of legislative powers)
agreed to, 698.

Amendment by Mr. Thynne that the follow-
ing stand as sub-clause 3:-"The appro-
priation of any moneys raised by the com-
monwealth for any purpose authorised by
the constitution," 698; withdrawn, 701.
Clause 53 (Exclusive powers of the parlia
ment), 701; agreed to with verbal amend.
ments, 704.

Clause 54 (Laws appropriating any part of
the public revenue, or imposing any tax cr
impost, shall originate in the house of repre-
sentatives). Amendment by Mr. Wrixon
to substitute the word "bills" for "laws,"
negatived, 704. Amendment by Mr. Baker
to omit the words "any part of the public
revenue" with a view to the insertion in lieu
thereof of the words "the necessary supplies
for the ordinary annual services of the go-
vernment," 705; negatived on division, and
clause agreed to, 706.

Clause 55 (Appropriation and taxation bills),
706. Amendment by Mr. Baker that the
senate shall have equal powers with the
house of representatives in respect of all pro-
posed laws, 707; withdrawn, 743. Amend-
ment by Mr. Baker to give the senate
equal powers with the house of representa-
tives in respect of all proposed laws impos-
ing taxation, and appropriating the neces-
sary supplies for the ordinary annual ser-
vices of the government, 743; negatived on
division, 755. Amendment by Mr. McMillan

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA BILL:
but not to amend, laws appropriating the
necessary supplies for the ordinary annual
services of the government, and power to
amend laws imposing taxation, but pro-
viding that when a law so amended had
been returned to the senate by the house of
representatives the senate should not have
power to send it again to the house of re-
presentatives with any amendment to which
the house of representatives had not agreed,
755; negatived, 759. Amendment by Mr.
Wrixon providing for a joint meeting of
members of the two houses to determine on
suggested omissions or amendment of items
in proposed laws, 760; negatived, and clause
agreed to, 762.

Clause 56 (Recommendation of money votes).
Amendment by Sir John Bray to enable the
house of representatives to pass any vote,
resolution, or law, for the appropriation of
the produce of any tax or impost to any
purpose that has not been first recommended
by message of the governor-general, 762;
negatived, and clause agreed to, 763.
Clause 57 (Royal assent to bills) agreed to, 763.
Clause 58 (Disallowance by order-in-council
of law assented to by governor-general).
Amendment by Dr. Cockburn providing a
period of disallowance of one year, 763;
negatived, 765. Amendment by Dr. Cock-
burn providing that disallowance shall be
exercised on such subjects only as affect im-
perial interests, negatived, and clause agreed
to, 765.

Chapter II.-The Executive Government.
Clause 4 (Ministers of state may sit in parlia-
ment). Amendment by Sir John Bray
that no less than two of the officers ap-
pointed by the governor-general to adminis-
ter the departments of state of the common-
wealth shall be members of the senate,
765; negatived, 766. Amendment by Mr.
Wrixon that the officers appointed shall
be responsible ministers of the Crown,
767; withdrawn, 776. Amendment by Sir
Samuel Griffith that the officers appointed
shall be the Queen's ministers of state for
the commonwealth, agreed to, and clause
as amended agreed to, 776.

Clause 6 (Salaries of ministers). Amendments
by Sir Samuel Griffith that for the salaries
of ministers there shall be payable a sum of
£15,000 per annum until other provision is
made by the parliament, 776; agreed to,
and clause, as amended, agreed to, 777.
Clause 8 (Authority of executive). Amend-
ment by Sir Samuel Griffith that the execu-
tive power and authority of the common-
wealth shall extend to the execution of the
provisions of the constitution, and the laws
of the commonwealth, 777; agreed to, and
clause, as amended, agreed to, 778.
Clause 10 (Immediate assumption of control of
certain departments), 778. Amendments by
Mr. Adye Douglas to remove from the con-
trol of the executive government the posts
and telegraphs, and ocean beacons, buoys,
lighthouses and ships, negatived, and clause

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA BILL :
Clause 11 (Powers under existing law to be
exercised by goveror-general, with advice
of executive council, or alone, as the case
may be) agreed to with verbal amendments,
779.

Chapter III.-The Federal Judicature.
Clause 1 (Supreme Court of Australia, and
inferior courts), 779. Amendment by Mr.
Kingston to give the parliament power to
establish courts of conciliation and arbitra-
tion for the settlement of industrial dis-
suits, 780; negatived on division, and clause
agreed to, 785.

Clause 6 (Power of the Queen to allow appeal
to herself in certain cases). Amendment
by Mr. Wrixon that the Queen may in any
case grant leave to appeal in council against
any judgment of the Supreme Court, 785;
negatived on division, and clause agreed to,
787.

Clause 7 (Extent of powers of federal courts)
agreed to with verbal amendment, 787.
Clause 8 (Original jurisdiction; additional
original jurisdiction may be conferred) verb-
ally amended and agreed to, 787.
Clause 10 (Number of judges) verbally amended
and agreed to, 787.

Chapter IV.-Finance and Trade.
Clause 3 (Money to be appropriated by law),
788. Amendment by Mr. Thynne restrict-
ing powers of federal parliament for appro-
priation of money to purposes authorised
by the constitution, negatived, and clause
agreed to, 789.

Clause 4 (Power to levy duties of customs,
excise, and offer bounties), 789. Amend-
ment by Colonel Smith that laws of the
several states imposing customs duties shall
cease to exist twelve mouths after the im-
position of uniform duties by the parliament
of the commonwealth, 790; withdrawn,
801. Amendment by Mr. Dibbs that upon
the constitution becoming law, and the
commonwealth being established, the tariff
of Victoria shall be the tariff of the com-
monwealth until otherwise established by
the parliament, negatived, and clause agreed
to, 801.

Clause 5 (Transfer of officers), 801. Amend-

ment by Mr. Gordon that the parliament
shall not be responsible for any pensions
agreed to be paid by the states, negatived,
and clause agreed to, 802.

Clause 8 (On establishment of uniform duties
of customs and excise, trade within the
commonwealth to be free) agreed to, 802.
Clause 9 (Apportionment of surplus revenue),
S02. Amendment by Sir Thomas McIlwraith
that the expenditure of the commonwealth
shall be charged to the separate states in
proportion to the numbers of their people,
805; agreed to on division, 830. Amend-
ment by Mr. McMillan that the surplus
revenue shall be returned to the several
states until uniform duties of customs have
been imposed, 830; agreed to, 831.
Amendment by Mr. McMillan that after

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA BILL:
plus revenue shall be returned to the
several states or parts of the commonwealth
in the same manner and proportion until
the parliament otherwise prescribes, 831.
Amendment on the amendment by Sir
John Bray to bind the parliament to pro-
vide some means of distributing the sur-
plus, 831; amendment on the amendment
negatived, amendment agreed to, and clause,
as amended, agreed to, $33.

Clause 11 (No preference to one state over an-
other). Amendment by Sir Samuel Griffith
to omit the provision that vessels bound to
or from one part shall not be bound to enter,
clear, or pay duty in another part, 833;
agreed to, and clause, as amended, agreed
to, 835.

Clause 13 (Public debts of states may be con-
solidated by general consent), 835. Amend-
ment, by Sir John Bray, to place the power
of consolidating the public debts in the
hands of the commonwealth, 837; nega-
tived, 848; clause agreed to, 849.

Chapter V.-The States.

Clause 1 (Continuance of powers of parlia-
ments of the states) agreed to with verbal
amendments, 850.

Clause 5 (All reference to the Queen to be
through the governor-general), 850; agreed
to on division, 864.

Clause 6 (Saving of constitutions).

Amend-

ment, by Mr. Gordon, that it shall not be
necessary to reserve any proposed alteration
of the constitution of any state for the
Queen's pleasure to be known, negatived on
division, 864; amendment, by Sir George
Grey, that it shall not be necessary to reserve
for the Queen's pleasure any law made by a
state, 864; negatived on division, and clause
agreed to, 865.

Clause 7 (Governors of states) agreed to, 866.
Clause 8 (Appointment of governors), 866;
agreed to on division, 877.

Clause 10 (Members of senate or house of
representatives not to sit in state parlia-
ment), 877. Amendment by Mr. Bird re-
moving the disqualification of a member of
the senate or house of representatives from
being chosen as a member of the parliament
of a state, 878; negatived, and clause agreed
to on division, 881.

Clause 11 (Member of state parliament not to

be member of the parliament of the com-
monwealth), 882; agreed to, 883.
Clause 14 (States not to levy duty of tonnage).
Amendment by Sir Samuel Griffith that
the commonwealth shall not impose any tax
on any land or other property belonging to
the states, agreed to, and clause, as amended,
agreed to, 883.

Clause 18 (Recognition of acts of state of
various laws) agreed to with verbal amend-
ments, 883.

Chapter VI.-New States.
Clause 1 (Admission of existing colonies to the
commonwealth) agreed to, 883.

Clause 4 (Alteration of limits of states) agreed

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA BILL:

Chapter VII.-Miscellaneous.

Clause 1 (Seat of government to be determined
by the parliament). Amendment by Mr.
Dibbs that the seat of government be
Sydney, New South Wales, 899; negatived
on division, 900.

New clause, by Sir Samuel Griffith, proposed,
that the aboriginal natives shall not be
counted in reckoning the number of people
of a state, or other part of the common-
wealth, agreed to, 898.

Chapter VIII.-Amendment of Constitution.
Clause 1 (Mode of amending the constitu-
tion), 884. Amendment by Dr. Cockburn
to submit any law for the alteration of the
constitution to the electors of the several
states, 894; negatived on division, 897.
Amendments by Sir Samuel Griffith, that if
the people of the states whose conventions
approve of the amendment are also a ma-
jority of the people of the commonwealth,
the amendment shall be presented to the
governor-general for the Queen's assent,
agreed to, and clause, as amended, agreed
to, 898.

Bill reported with amendments, 900; motion
by Sir Samuel Griffith that the draft bill
reported from Committee be adopted by
the Convention, 905, 907; debated by Mr.
Dibbs, 905; Sir Henry Parkes, 908; Mr.
Munro, 912; Mr. Deakin, 914; Sir John
Downer, 918; Mr. Baker. Dr. Cockburn,
919; Mr. J. Forrest, 920; Sir Thomas
Mellwraith, Mr. Playford, 921; Mr. Rut-
ledge, 922; Sir George Grey, 923; agreed
to, 927.

CONSTITUTION, ADOPTION OF THE :

66

Motion by Sir Samuel Griffith that the Con-
vention recommends that provision be made
by the parliaments of the several colonies
for submitting for the approval of the people
of the colonies respectively the constitution
of the commonwealth of Australia as framed
by the Convention, 927, 932; debated by
Sir John Bray (who moved an amendment
to substitute the word "consideration" for
'approval "), 929; Mr. Wrixon, 931; Mr.
Baker, Mr. Munro, 932; Mr. Suttor, Mr.
Gillies, 933; Mr. Dibbs, 934; Mr. Abbott,
Mr. Playford, 935; amendment negatived,
937; amendment by Sir George Grey to
provide for the submission of the constitu-
tion for the approval of the people at a
plebiscite on the principle of one man one
vote, negatived, and motion agreed to, 937.
CONSTITUTION, ESTABLISHMENT OF THE:
Motion by Sir Samuel Griffith that the Con-

vention recommends that so soon as the
constitution has been adopted by three of
the colonies her Majesty's government be
requested to take the necessary action to
establish the constitution in respect of those
colonies, agreed to, 937.
CONVENTION, OFFICERS OF THE:

See VOTES of THANKS.
CONVENTION, DISSOLUTION OF THE:

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