wise expire at the end of fiscal year 1967. Extension would make them uniform with the rest of the act, which continues through fiscal year 1968. A study of the provisions and further recommendations were submited to Congress earlier this year.

CHAIR'S REQUEST OF MINORITY STAFF

Senator MORSE. May I interrupt you for just a moment, Mr. Com

missioner.

I want the attention of counsel for the minority. Senator Fannin and the chairman have been working closely together, as have other members of the committee, on the Indian school problem. I want counsel to call Senator Fannin's attention in this connection to the Commissioner's testimony dealing with the Indian school program. It is going to be necessary for us on the subcommittee to send to you in writing a list of questions, in addition to such other questions that will be asked in the hearing this morning, and I want Senator Fannin to be notified that any questions that he wants the Commissioner to answer, to have those questions sent down to him so we can have them by Monday.

Senator DOMINICK. Mr. Chairman.

Senator MORSE. Yes, Senator Dominick.

Senator DOMINICK. I think it was between you and Senator Fannin and myself that we got this provision in for the study on the future of the education for Indian children.

Senator MORSE. You and Senator Fannin were the proposers, and you came to me and I joined the two of you. The Senator from Arizona and the Senator from Colorado raised this matter in the first place, and as chairman of the subcommittee I quickly supported them because I think it is meritorious.

Senator DOMINICK. I just wanted to say, Mr. Chairman, that it looks as though we are, if I may say so, stuck with another year of the present system, and the present system is better than that that was in effect before, but it still has not solved many of the basic problems which are, in my mind, related to the question of whether the Bureau of Indian Affairs should be the ones responsible for educating Indian children. I think this is a very basic problem because all it does is promote discrimination instead of trying to provide to bring them into the mainstream of American life. And I gather that the report indicates that perhaps we ought to expand and enlarge the Bureau of Indian Affairs schools, rather than cutting them back. So there are some questions that I would like to participate in on this also.

Senator MORSE. Is that your understanding of the results, Commissioner?

Mr. Howe. The result of the study, very broadly, Mr. Chairman, is that it points to some advantages and disadvantages in making a transfer of the Indian schools to other auspices, but it comes down on the side of recommending that they stay with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Senator DOMINICK. We have an interesting thing, if I may interrupt here, we have a District of Columbia Court of Appeals case that says that de facto segregation is unconstitutional in the District of Colum

bia and here we are putting in legislative segregation in the Indian situation. It seems highly unusual to me.

Mr. Howe. The whole trend of education of Indians is to have them participate more and more in the regular public schools sponsored by the responsible location educational agencies where they are. The large proportion of Indians are in such schools. I believe it is correct to say that the people who have administered the BIA program have tried to encourage the movement of Indians into regular local educational agency-sponsored schools, but there are some very special situations because of the cultural background of the Indians and the places that they live that make it difficult to do this in a rush.

We have here in the room Dr. Carl Marburger, who has administered those schools up until the present time for the past year. He is leaving shortly to go to New Jersey, but I am sure he will be willing to respond to any detailed questions.

Senator MORSE. We have a statement from him that I shall now insert in the record.

STATEMENT BY DR. CARL L. MARBURGER, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER (EDUCATION), BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS

The Department of Interior supports and endorses passage of the Elementary and Secondary Education Amendments of 1967 as passed by the House of Representatives (H.R. 7819) and sent to the Senate. During the past 6 months, when funding was available to the Bureau of Indian Affairs under ESEA, much progress has been made in developing sound, innovative projects for Indian children attending Fed

eral schools.

Although great difficulty was encountered in attempting to hire qualified, competent professional staff in the middle of the school year, more than 1,000 have been placed in positions throughout the Bureau. Under the Elementary and Secondary Education Amendments of 1966 (Public Law 89-750), there is no authorization for continuing funding beyond June 30, 1967. Those schools who have shown extra initiative in finding personnel, particularly specialists, will be forced to dismiss those people. In spite of having only $5 million under title I for a 6 months' period these programs have generated great enthusiasm in students that has not before been apparent. The detrimental educational educational and psychological effect on these children, if we cannot continue these programs after June 30, 1967, would be dis

astrous.

The success of the Bureau programs in cultural enrichment, English as a second language, improved dormitory conditions through dormitory aids, speech therapy, guidance and counseling, and remedial reading has been encouraging. The attitude of the children and their improved confidence and self-assurance is measurable.

In order for this program to have any meaningful effect, there must be a continuity of this effort.

We strongly urge passage of the Elementary and Secondary Education Amendments of 1967 to provide this continuity.

Senator MORSE. I would like to move on

Mr. Howe. Fine.

Senator MORSE. Let me take note of Senator Dominick's observation, which I think I can assure you is the same as Senator Fannin's, and

the same as mine. I think that we have to move as rapidly as the facts and the circumstances permit for an integration of the Indian children in public schools rather than keeping them in segregated schools.

I am not an overnighter, and I can assure you that Senator Fannin and Senator Dominick are not either. We want to do it soundly. Our concern is whether or not we are taking the next step or whether we are just treading water, and there is quite a difference. You have made your report. We have it. It is up to us to move on the legislative level from there.

Mr. Howe. I think it is fairly clearly on the record, Mr. Chairman, that I am not in favor of segregated schools either, and I think that

Senator DOMINICK. Well said.

Senator MORSE. There may be some other understatements today, but that is the best.

Mr. Howe. But it would be helpful for us to receive Senator Fannin's questions just as quickly as possible because I believe you ought to have the answers by Monday.

Going then to the

BILINGUAL EDUCATION BILL

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, since this matter of Indian children has come up, I want to mention that the bilingual education bill is cosponsored by both Senators from Texas, both Senators from New York, both Senators from California, bipartisan as to parties, because these are the three States in which most of the Spanish-speaking children live, a million of school age now.

Senator MORSE. Did you include me as a coauthor?

Senator YARBOROUGH. Is the Senator willing to be a cosponsor? Senator MORSE. I thought you knew I was an enthusiastic supporter of it. Get me on it.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I think you must be on it. If not, you will be before noon, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

But I want to point out, Mr. Chairman, that in these three States this is a matter of great interest. The Senators of both parties are cosponsors. The States contain within their borders approximately 50 million people, about 25 percent of the population of the country, and this is where the great concentration is.

To save time in view of the fact the little red hand is moving around the clock, Mr. Commissioner, we will submit to you a written question on this before the day is over.

Mr. Howe. Thank you very much, Senator. I am testifying on Wednesday in the House on the bilingual education bill.

Senator YARBOROUGH. We will have a written question before the day is over.

TEACHERS CORPS EXTENSION

Mr. Howe. We move then, Senator Morse, to the extension of the Teachers Corps, and I have already appeared before this subcommittee on May 25 in support of the Teachers Corps and its extension. I would like to reemphasize the importance of it and the need for it. The Teachers Corps was not funded for in its first year of existence.

A relatively small supplemental appropriation for fiscal 1966 enabled it to become a reality, and it did indeed bring about 1,200 teachers to training.

The House Committee on Education and Labor only 3 days ago reported H.R. 10943, which would extend the authorization for the Teachers Corps for 3 years, through fiscal year 1970, and would make the following major changes:

(1) Local educational agencies would be given the responsibility to recruit, select, and enroll Teachers Corps members.

(2) The State educational agency would be required to approve a local educational agency's request for Corps members and the arrangements for their training.

(3) Federal contributions for Teachers Corps salaries would be based on the local educational agency's ability to pay the Federal share would be limited to 90 percent, except in exceptional cases.

(4) Teacher-interns would be paid at the rate of $75 per week plus $15 per dependent, or at the lowest rate for teaching full time in the school system in which they teach, whichever is less.

That rate of pay is the same as we use for institutes, people participating in institutes for training under our various programs.

(5) Students in their third and fourth year of undergraduate study would be eligible to become teacher-interns.

(6) The name of the program would be changed from the National Teachers Corps to the Teachers Corps.

(7) Teachers Corps teams could be assigned to a migrant group whose children are not enrolled in a regular school.

(8) Teachers Corps teams could be assigned to schools for Indian children operated by the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Certain other amendments to the Teachers Corps program are also contained in H.R. 10943. These include a revision in the method of allocating the program throughout the States and a prohibition against participation by Teachers Corps members in the NDEA student loan program and the educational opportunity grant program during the time in which they are enrolled in the Corps. For these purposes, H.R. 10943 authorizes an appropriation of $33 million for fiscal year 1968, $46 million for fiscal year 1969, and $56 million for fiscal year 1970.

Without this legislation, the Teachers Corps would die at the end of this fiscal year. The time and effort which have been put into recruitment, training, and placement of Corps members would be wasted. Even worse, the promise of better education made to the children of the ghetto and of remote rural areas would be broken. This must not happen.

The Office of Education has carefully studied the changes in the Teachers Corps proposed by the House. Several are identical to those contained in S. 1125. Others were developed by the House Committee on Education and Labor with my cooperation and the Director of the Corps, Mr. Graham.

I believe they are, in every case, consistent with the original objectives of the Corps, as conceived by the Congress in 1965. With these amendments, the Teacher Corps will continue to be an effective instrument. both for strengthening educational opportunity in depressed urban and rural areas and for broadening and improving teacher preparation programs throughout the Nation.

In summary, these proposals represent significant additions to and refinements of existing legislation. The programs contained in this legislation do not call for dramatic new levels of funding, but they do promise more effective use of existing authorizations. They do not in every instance possess the glamor of innovation, but they do promise the benefits of consolidation. They are most worthy of your consideration, and I urge their approval by this subcommitee and the Congress. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you this morning, and I and my associates will be happy to answer your questions.

QUESTIONS POSED BY CHAIRMAN

Senator MORSE. Senator Yarborough and Senator Dominick, I have two questions, three questions I want to ask the Commissioner and then I would like to have you take the chair while I go to an important outside conference I have been asked to attend.

Mr. Commissioner, as I review section 531 (b) of H.R. 10943, which contains an illustrative series of programs and projects for teacher training, am I correct in my interpretation of (b) (1) on page 28 that the language "In any subject" can be broadly construed to be any subject or combination of subjects?

I ask this question since it is my understanding particularly at the elementary level the teachers are responsible for more than one area; that, therefore, you would wish to permit interdisciplinary training to be given.

Mr. Howe. Yes, sir; that is the correct interpretation and our view as well.

Senator MORSE. My second question:

Further, Mr. Commisioner, am I correct in my assumption that where the words "teacher" or "teachers" or "educational personnel" are set forth in the nine programs, these terms are definable and will be broadly defined by you in each case to include those schoolteachers who serve as school librarians?

It is my understanding that school librarians in most of our jurisdictions, if not all, are considered to be teaching personnel. Mr. Howe. Yes; we would so include them.

Senator MORSE. My third question:

Under section 506 of H.R. 10943, relating to the transfer of funds under this act, would the Office of Education or the Department offer objection to a modification which would bring that section of the act to conformity with action taken by this subcommittee in modifying the International Education Act of last session to condition the transfer of funds upon a requirement that the interagency agreements relative thereto be published in the Federal Register prior to their implementation?

Mr. HowE. We would have no objection to this, Mr. Chairman. Senator MORSE. Finally, Mr Commissioner, under the amendments made last year to the Elementary and Secondary School Act, the Congress authorized the Bureau for the Education and Training of the Handicapped to administer and carry out programs and projects for the training of teachers of the handicapped. In section 531 (b) of the bill being considered by the committee, the Commissioner is authorized to conduct programs or projects to train or retrain persons engaged in programs of special education for the handicapped.