Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Are there any further questions? Mr. POAGE. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Mr. Poage. Mr. POAGE. The gentleman has just been trying to make you, or trying to lead you into saying that you felt oleomargarine was an inferior product; that it was likely to be adulterated, or likely to be undesirable for human food. I understood that you did not agree with him. Mrs. SCHORSKE. I do not agree with him. Mr. POAGE. Now, he suggested that it was possible that we would not be able to police every store in the country. We all realize that we are not in this country trying to do that; we are not going to keep a regiment of soldiers at every store. That has not been our custom. But, as to the question of policing and determining whether a product is pure or not, what would be your idea about the ease with which we might determine whether oleomargarine, which is produced only in a very few factories in the country-I believe somebody said 34. Mr. ANDRESEN. Eighteen big ones. Mr. POAGE. All right; 18, over the country; as to whether it would be easier to determine whether those 18 were processing a poor product or whether it would be easier to determine whether several million producers of butter were; which would be the easiest to police? Mrs. SCHORSKE. It is perfectly obvious that the margarine industry would be much easier to police. Mr. POAGE. It seems that way to me. Of course, the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Andresen, would have you believe that it is easier to determine that all butter is pure, wholesome, sweet; made out of pure milk, than it is to determine whether or not those 18 manufacturers of margarine are running their places in a pure and lawful method. Mr. ANDRESEN. I excepted, while I did not make that statement, I excepted the cream that came from the gentleman's district that had rats in it. Mr. POAGE. Now, let us discuss a little some other cream. You heard the testimony of the members of the committee in regard to oleomargarine that was sold in Mississippi. Mrs. SCHORSKE. Yes. Mr. POAGE. Under the guise of being butter. Mrs. SCHORSKE. Yes. Mr. POAGE. And they were properly concerned about such action, and so were the oleomargarine people, and so far as I know, all of the officials and all of the butter interests; both butter and margarine interests, took every step that they could to stop that, and did stop it. Now, you heard that testimony. I want to give you the other side of that. I hold in my hand a letter, or a copy of the letter, from J. W. Forbes, chief, food and drug section, State of Louisiana, addressed to Mr. W. J. Murphy, State dairy commissioner, Bismarck, N. Dak., dated June 17, 1943, and I want to read it to you. DEAR MR. MURPHY: Some time back a letter was addressed to you from this office with regard to our having found a group of men operating in Louisiana to color oleomargarine and sell it as country butter. Apparently you forwarded that letter, or a copy of it, to a magazine or publication known as the Dairy Record, and as a result the information contained in the letter was given quite widespread publicity. Most of the publicity given the article was in an unfavorable light toward oleomargarine and has been played up along that angle by the butter interests. These hospitals at the present time are obliged to increase the consumption of substitutes for butter, because of the difference between the ration point value of butter as compared with the ration point value of the substitute, and they are compelled to use margarine. If they use margarine in large quantity, as Mr. Martin has pointed out, and undertake to color it, they become manufacturers of margarine and are subject both to the tax on manufacture and the tax of 10 cents a pound, which makes it almost prohibitive to use oleomargarine. I am sure all of them would prefer to use butter for table use and for tray service, whereas in the kitchen and in the bakery, I think they use large quantities of margarine. Mr. MURRAY. Just one question. Have you found any place where you have a shortage of butter? Mr. MONTEVAM. Shortage of butter? I don't know about a shortage, but there is a shortage of ability to buy butter, and I suppose that a proper reflection of the quantity of butter available is the point rationing that the hospitals receive from the Office of Price Administration. Presumably the point value is high because butter is not abundant. I presume that the rationing means just that. Mr. MURRAY. Do I understand you to say that the hospitals have the same rationing Mr. MONTEVAM. I don't say they have the same, but they have rationing, and that rationing indicates the scarcity as compared with oleomargarine. Margarine values, as we have heard here is 6 points, and butter is 16 points. That means, of course, that there is two and a half times as much margarine available as there is butter. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. We thank you for your appearance. We now have some consumer witnesses. We will hear Mrs. Chamberlain, whom I understand cannot be here tomorrow. STATEMENT OF MRS. E. G. CHAMBERLAIN, REPRESENTING THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF SETTLEMENTS Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Will you give your name and state whom you represent? Mrs. CHAMBERLAIN. Mrs. E. G. Chamberlain. I represent the National Federation of Settlements. Their headquarters is at 147 Avenue B, New York City. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. You said settlements? Mrs. CHAMBERLAIN. Settlement houses; yes, sir. There are about 150 settlement houses in the organization. There are a great many more in the United States, but I think a lot of them work on such a narrow margin that they cannot even pay dues to a national association. I guess you are all familiar with the work settlements do. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Proceed. Mrs. CHAMBERLAIN. This statement was written by Miss Margaret Cross, the Washington representative of the Consumer Interests Committee of the National Federation of Settlements. The National Federation of Settlements, which represents thousands of low-income families in cities throughout the country is opposed to legislation which discriminates against the consumer, especially when it strikes at the family food budget. At a recent meeting of the board of directors of the federation, a resolution was passed unanimously favoring the law to repeal the Federal taxes on the production and sale of margarine, since in the opinion of the members, these taxes are unjust and discriminatory, working undue hardship on the group of consumers who most need ready access to nutritious foods. At the present time, when butter is beyond the reach of thousands of families, no blockade which prevents them from obtaining an equal substitute should be allowed to stand. And I should also like to add that the settlement houses that serve hot lunches to children that come there are in exactly the same position as the others. They find themselves in the position of unwillingly breaking the law if they happen to color the margarine they want to use. Mr. ANDRESEN. Are these meals served free of charge? Mrs. CHAMBERLAIN. No; I think at most of them there is a small charge. It doesn't cover the cost. Of course, practically all of the settlements are supported-for instance, all of those here are members of the community chest. Mr. ANDRESEN. Are these public institutions? Mrs. CHAMBERLAIN. Oh, no; they are private institutions, and the children do pay a certain fee for the meals, but it is a very low cost service. Mr. PHILLIPS. I think there is a very distinct line that could be drawn. None of these settlement houses or hospitals are operated for profit? Mrs. CHAMBERLAIN. No. Mr. PHILLIPS. I think there is a very distinct line that could be drawn there. Mr. ANDRESEN. I think there is a bill that has been introduced in the Senate to remove some of the restrictions on these charitable organizations or organizations that border on charity, for the duration of the war. I have seen a copy of the bill, but I do not recollect the Senator who introduced it. Mrs. CHAMBERLAIN. Certainly in its present effect it works a hardship on these particular organizations. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. We thank you very much for your appearance. Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Thank you. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. The committee will have to rise. The rest of your witnesses are invited to be here tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock, at which time you will be heard. (Whereupon at 12:05 p. m. the committee adjourned to 10 a. m. Wednesday, November 3, 1943.) OLEOMARGARINE WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 1943 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Hon. Orville Zimmerman presiding. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. The committee will please be in order. At our adjournment on yesterday we agreed to hear the consumers who are interested in the proposed legislation. I have here Miss Hofstetter, who represents the American Home Economics Association. Is Miss Hofstetter ready to testify? (There was no response.) Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Dr. Caroline Ware, American Association of University Women. The CLERK. She can appear after 11. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Mrs. Elizabeth Schorske, representing the League of Women Shoppers. We will be glad to hear you Mrs. Schorske. STATEMENT OF MRS. ELIZABETH SCHORSKE, REPRESENTING THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN SHOPPERS Mrs. SCHORSKE. Mr. Chairman. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Mrs. Schorske, will you give your name and your address? Mrs. SCHORSKE. Elizabeth Schorske, Arlington, Va. I am representing both the National and the Local League of Women Shoppers. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Will you tell us something about this orgaization? Mrs. SCHORSKE. I will be glad to. We have a membership of 2,000 women in 6 or 7 cities in the United States. The cities include Miami, St. Louis, Chicago, Cincinnati, New York, Washington, and a few other places. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. What is the purpose of this organization? Mrs. SCHORSKE. The purpose of this organization is to more or less organize consumers to protect their own interests and those of all housewives in matters of this type of legislation, for example, which fall perfectly well within our field. We originally started out to do things in the labor field, but ever since the war we have more or less changed our approach and really worked more on the other problems, like surveys of food, and we testified here for food subsidies and things of that kind. Mr. HOPE. Let me ask you, you said your organization worked with the labor people? Mrs. SCHORSKE. Yes, sir. |