ties. This is an area of persistent unemployment and a relatively low rate of economic activity. Outdoor recreation is one of its great natural assets. The location is such, in relation to urban areas, that many visitors will choose to spend weekends and longer periods in it if the recreation facilities are developed and the area brought to public attention. Increased tourism can substantially bolster the inflow of money to this area. There also will be a substantial input of funds from the land acquisition and development programs contemplated for the national recreation area.

We would anticipate the development of substantial numbers of privately owned motels, restaurants, stores, and other service facilities for recreationists and tourists in and about the national recreation area-either on private lands or on public lands through concession agreements. We think this national recreation area will provide a firm economic base and a high level of local economic activity. The national need for increased outdoor recreation opportunities, and the need for conservation of natural resources and scenic beauty-will both be served in good measure. We believe this national program will complement State and local programs for the overall public good.

Mr. Chairman, I thank you.

Senator MCCARTHY. Mr. Nelson, has the Department of Agriculture had any experience with a project of this size?

Mr. NELSON. We have considerable experience with recreation developments. There has, to date, never been a national recreation area established either on the national forests or otherwise. And I speak of a national recreation area being in accord with the criteria set up by the President's Outdoor Recreation Advisory Council. There are a number of bills before the Congress that would establish national recreation areas where the Forest Service would be involved, but none have passed or have been set up at the present time. We served in the national forest, last year, 124 million recreation visitors. So we are experienced with handling outdoor recreation.

Senator MCCARTHY. And you have jurisdiction in areas where you have this mixed kind of recreation that you are going to provide here?

Mr. NELSON. Yes, we have a considerable amount of it. In fact, our eastern national forests are somewhat like this area here. We own in some of them less than half the land, and in none of them do we own all the land. And so all of our experience, especially in the East, has been with mixed ownership, with private land as well as national forests.

Senator MCCARTHY. Is the authority for condemnation unique in a bill of this kind? Do you usually try to start out by acquiring the land without the authority of the act?

Mr. NELSON. We always do.

Senator MCCARTHY. And you use the condemnation authority only when you need it to get the land?

Mr. NELSON. We don't use condemnation unless we have to.

Senator MCCARTHY. Sometimes you don't even have authority for it: isn't that true?

Mr. NELSON. Wherever we have basic authority to purchase, unless it is specifically forbidden in the law, we do have the authority to

condemn if it is needed. And the authority that would be used here is the Weeks law of 1911.

Senator MCCARTHY. Does this apply to mineral rights on the land? Will you try to clear up everything as you develop this?

Mr. NELSON. No. We have a great deal of land, and we have a lot of experience with land where the mineral rights are owned by a third party. Now, there would be some parts of it where it would be necessary and desirable to own both the mineral rights and the surface rights. But we would believe that quite a lot of mineral rights would not have to be purchased.

Senator MCCARTHY. You would not deal with those at all?

Mr. NELSON. An exception would be along the scenic drive, for instance. And we are working on a scenic drive in Arkansas and Oklahoma at the present time. And there we are buying the mineral rights that would disturb the scenic drive itself, and the immediate area. Now, some of that is gas-and-oil land, as some of this might be developed. And there we have bought the mineral rights to the extent that they might continue to develop them, but they would develop them under the Secretary's regulations that would preserve the scenic attractions of the land. Slant drilling would be one example in that

case.

Senator MCCARTHY. These mineral rights are all under the jurisdiction of the Interior, are they not?

Mr. NELSON. No, Senator

Senator MCCARTHY. How does the jurisdiction run on this project? Mr. NELSON. We handle the mineral business on the lands that we acquire. The Interior Department is responsible for the minerals on the national forests that were established by reservation from the public domain. But on the acquired land, such as the eastern national forests, we handle the minerals.

Senator MCCARTHY. So on this the Department of Agriculture would

Mr. NELSON. We do work with the Interior Department on that. And I believe Mr. Grover just informet me that the actual formal leasing is issued by the Interior.

Senator BYRD. Mr. Chairman, one of the amendments that is being proposed by the Department of Agriculture would permit the development of the mineral resources in the area. And I think this would be a desirable amendment to have attached.

Senator MCCARTHY. Then this is not a problem and there is no controversy as to the mineral rights. The owners of the minerals are not upset, and the Department of Agriculture finds this wholly accepable with the amendment and I assume Interior also?

Mr. NELSON. Yes. We may have to, on an area that needs to be actually developed for recreation use, and the minerals are owned by a third party--we might have a little trouble buying the minerals. If we did, we might have to condemn in that case.

Senator MCCARTHY. What is the estimate on the overall cost of the project to the Government?

Mr. NELSON. We estimate that in the first 5 years we would spend about $9 million. About $1,200,000 would be for acquisition of lands. Senator MCCARTHY. And this would not require separate appropriations as far as you know?

Mr. NELSON. NO. The acquisition of land would be under the water and land conservation fund; the funds for putting in the roads and the overlooks and the campgrounds would have to be regular appropriation, but no special authority.

Senator MCCARTHY. Do you have any questions, Senator Byrd? Senator BYRD. I would like to ask one question of you, Mr. Nelson: I have received some letters from constituents who live in the territory which would be included in the national recreation area and they are concerned about their possibility having to sell their properties. And I think the record ought to make clear what the policy of the Department will be in connection with those properties which the

owners thereof do not wish to sell?

Mr. NELSON. As I indicated in my testimony, we would anticipate that we would not buy all of the land, and parts of it would be available for improvement by the landowners. I also indicated that we would propose to take care of some of the needs of the public through scenic easements. Now, if we take a farm down on the north branch that you are acquainted with, on some of that good flatland, which probably adds to the scenic attraction rather than detracting from it, and in order to keep that farmer from turning his farm or a portion of it into a junkyard, we might buy from him a scenic easement that would prevent him doing certain things with his land, such as using them in some manner that would be adverse to the overall scenic enjoyment of the national recreation area.

Senator BYRD. But if his operation is a profitable one and he has a productive farm, you would not force him to sell his farm?

Mr. NELSON. No; unless there would be a few areas where we absolutely didn't have enough land to develop it for the public need for developed areas, such as a camp ground or a picnic ground, we might find that the only land that was available would be a piece of land that was a part of the farm that he didn't want to sell, but we would have to have that for development. But we anticipate that there will be ample opportunity to buy land from willing sellers for all of the developments that we can see at the present time. We also anticipate that some of the private lands left there would be the lands upon which the motels and other features would be located that would take care of the recreation areas by private capital.

Senator BYRD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator MCCARTHY. To what extent do you have authority with reference to scenic easements decisions? If an owner wanted to remodel his house and put on a blue Johns-Manville tar paper roof, could you buy him out?

Mr. NELSON. That would depend upon what we bought when we bought a scenic easement from him. And we have not determined exactly what all that would be. It could be in the scenic easement that we pay him something for maintaining it, in a manner that would not be objectionable from a recreation and scenery standpoint, which would exclude the possibility of a bright tin roof, or painting that place yellow.

Senator MCCARTHY. You could go that far?

Mr. NELSON. We could go that far.

Senator MCCARTHY. I have no further questions, Mr. Nelson. Thank you very much.

Mr. NELSON. Thank you.

Senator MCCARTHY. The next witness is Mr. Robert Bowers, the West Virginia Department of Commerce, representing the Governor.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT R. BOWERS, DIRECTOR, TRAVEL DEVELOPMENT DIVISION, WEST VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, CHARLESTON, W. VA.

Mr. BOWERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to advise that I have also brought a statement of my own at the Governor's request, and at the request of Senator Byrd, which for the sake of time I would like to have entered into the record. But with the Chairman's sanction, I will forego reading it here today and confine this reading to the statement by Governor Smith.

Senator MCCARTHY. You ask that your statement be put in the record?

Mr. BOWERS. Yes, sir.

Senator MCCARTHY. Following the Governor's statement?
Mr. BOWERS. Yes.

Senator MCCARTHY. Very well; you may proceed.

Mr. BOWERS (reading Gov. Hulett C. Smith's statement):

It is an honor and a pleasure to present my testimony, at the request of Senator Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia.

This statement is presented not only on behalf of the people of West Virginia. but millions of Americans who live in highly congested industrial areas of the East-areas where recreational opportunity in the great outdoors is all but totally lacking.

My statement is also on behalf of the proposed Spruce Knob-Seneca Rocks National Recreation Area which would be located approximately 150 miles west of our Nation's Capital and would encompass approximately 100,000 acres of the Nation's most beautiful, rugged, and versatile terrain. This area is generally considered in two sections, one being the Spruce Knob section which is the highest point in West Virginia, and the Seneca Rocks-Smoke Hole section which is located in the head of the beautiful South Branch Valley. The Spruce Knob area contains approximately 26,000 acres while the Seneca Rocks land area encompasses approximately 74,000 acres.

It is important to understand that while West Virginia greatly favors this proposal for a national recreation area, the conclusion was first drawn by the U.S. Department of the Interior, National Park Service, region 1, in a preliminary plan for recreation resource development in West Virginia as compiled and published in March 1961. It was recommended by this report that a State recreation area system be established, that it contain areas of high recreation potential and that the units be strategically located primarily to serve urban

areas.

In addition, it was recommended that the Federal Government give serious consideration to ways and means of participation in the plans for development of recreational resources of West Virginia such as: "establishing a national recreation area in the Spruce Knob region-an area of outstanding scenic and geologic interest, capable of furnishing a rewarding recreation experience to millions of people along the eastern seaboard of the United States."

This is the same area essentially of which we speak here today. Protecting the headwaters of the great Potomac, this land area gives rise to dozens of trout streams as well as to some of the Nation's finest smallmouth bass fishing rivers. Seneca Rocks itself is a 1,000-foot mountain of gleaming medina sandstone and is a focal point of the area along the North Fork of the South Branch of the Potomac River. This weekend in that area more than 14,000 canoeing and kayaking enthusiasts from 21 States will gather along the river to record, document, and enjoy a spectacular national canoe championship race and the eastern kayak championship races. These nationallly significant races lone point up the urgency of protecting and preserving the beauty, cleanliness, and rarity of this

crystalline white water of the North Fork of the South Branch of the Potomac River.

Seneca Rocks itself, however, is indeed also unique. It does not lay on a plane, but is heaved up vertically, and these 1,000-foot jagged rocks are aimed as if in readiness for leaving the launching pad.

In addition, hiking clubs from throughout the United States visit here to hike and climb these uniquely significant rock formations.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer calls Seneca Rocks the finest mountain-climbing area in the East, while the 900-member Appalachian Trail Club from Maryland and Washington, D.C., has been climbing these rocks since 1939. They have been consistently called back by the beauty, challenge, uniqueness, proximity, and relative safety of these sturdy formations.

This entire region is the heart of the Mountain State's hunting areas. Here, the bear and the wild turkey still roam free, and the ruffed grouse, white-tailed deer, snowshoe hare and a multitude of northern- and southern-type game species thrive.

Spruce Knob, our highest point, is where nature took its flora and funa from the north and placed it here for the people of our Nation to enjoy. Here is truly one of the most versatile and beautiful recreational offerings found in the Eastern United States, and it lies only a day's drive from 70 million people and a half-day's drive from the great population of the District of Columbia. No area offers so much in such relative proximity to such crowded, congested populations as these eastern counties of West Virginia. The whim or fancy of every group has a special little niche in this rugged land. So versatile is the natural appeal of this area that people from two dozen foreign lands, 50 States and all the continents of the world visit it annually in ever-increasing numbers. They come to camp, fish, canoe, kayak, and hunt. They come for nature walking, wild flower study, sightseeing, pleasure driving, photography, and resting-all of this from a natural wealth of resources which are unspoiled by human encroachment and which are now becoming fully recognized for their real value as a playland of the Eastern United States.

It is essential, not only for West Virginia's sake but for the sake of a growing population in the midst of a dwindling recreational opportunity, that this land be preserved. A national guardianship can guarantee in perpetuity this wondrous endowment which providence has placed so close to so many and has yet allowed to remain unspoiled.

West Virginia can be destined to become the vacationland of the Eastern United States and a prominent destination for travelers of the Nation and the world.

I submit, therefore, that nothing gives the State of West Virginia greater joy than to share her natural beauty and her bountiful offering with her neighbors. We recognize the tourist as a person who pays much and takes away a fond recollection of his visit. We hope, therefore, to share with America, and with the world, our bountiful blessings for enjoyment for people everywhere.

We believe that this land of Spruce Knob and of Seneca Rocks and all of the natural uniqueness of the general region can be most properly preserved and most expeditiously developed in a manner in keeping with the ever-growing national needs as Seneca Rocks-Spruce Knob-Smoke Hole National Recreation Area.

Toward this end, we are here today to ask that you provide for the recreational future of America by authorizing this area as one of the newest in a growing chain of national recreation areas. The longer we delay, the greater the cost for these acres. The more the Nation becomes aware of West Virginia's countryside as a playground, the greater will be the price, and the dearer the land, and the longer we will be delayed in meeting the demands of a growing and great society.

Thank you.

(The statement of Mr. Bowers is as follows:)

Travel in West Virginia has grown steadily, 7 to 9 percent per year, for the past 4 years and now supports upward of 30,000 jobs in the Mountain State.

Upon the completion of West Virginia's Interstate System, which is progressing rapidly, as well as the upgrading of various highways and easier access through the Appalachian highway system, the volume of traffic that will be poured into the Mountain State will startle even the most vivid imagination.