the bill by Senator Holland which was considered in the subcommittee, and that is what we hope to do when we come to write the bill.

Mr. HEALY. You see, Mr. Chairman, I believe that both you and Senator Aiken put your finger on this earlier today. I refer to section 18 of the bill which reads:

In the selection of schools and nonprofit institutions to receive Federal assistance under sections 13, 14, and 15 of this Act, the state agency shall adopt the methods and procedures necessary to assure coordination with and give, where the need is comparable, preference to programs carried on under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 and the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 in such schools or institutions.

I grant this committee has taken note of this language, and I hope, of course, that you will delete such language if this bill is passed. The CHAIRMAN. To delete it?

Mr. HEALY. Yes, sir. However, I think that every time we put programs together there is an opportunity for this type of thing to develop. When we set the milk program off by itself, you can watch it, we can watch it, the school systems can watch it and keep it for what it was intended to do. This is why we hope that this committee will report S. 2921.

The CHAIRMAN. I have been watching your milk programs quite closely. You know that I contended in the past, on other programs, that price supports have not been affected at all. We have not changed that. You are getting a lot of benefits out of the regular school lunch program by providing milk there, and over and on top of that you have the special $100 million-plus, and I think that you are very well taken care of.

Mr. HEALY. We realize that. We realize also that these schoolchildren are very well treated, because we cannot think of anything better to give them than milk.

The CHAIRMAN. When this program was first put on the statute books, what you had in mind was to get rid of the surplus that you had, and it was the producers that it helped, and, now, it has worked so well that you want to make it permanent. Whether you have a surplus or not, you want the Government to spend $100 million; is that true?

Mr. HEALY. Let me explain about this surplus, Mr. Chairman. If we did not have the special milk program at this time and the milk in the school lunch program, the Commodity Credit Corporation would be buying 3 billion pounds of milk a year right today.

The CHAIRMAN. We might change the law then.
Mr. HEALY. We would certainly hope not.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, you would. You have got a pretty strong organization. You have a lot of power around here. I think that this committee ought to help out the milk producers the best it can, but, personally, I am just opposed to some of these programs that were put in for a certain purpose. Now, you are going to make it permanent, and it is over and above the price support that you are getting.

Mr. HEALY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. It is over and above the amount that is spent on the school lunch program. That is why I did not expect any opposition from the milk people to be put in on this in connection with the school lunch program, because, as I understand it, your purpose is to make this work and to give assistance to the schoolchildren of this Nation.

Mr. HEALY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I think, since this is going to be administered by the same people, that you should not object to it.

Mr. HEALY. First, let me say that the milk producers of this Nation are constantly aware of the programs which have been developed in this committee in their behalf, and they feel that they have a sound basic program in this legislation, one which works, perhaps, better than the program of any other commodity group in this country. The CHAIRMAN. It has been very helpful. Last year or so, it was some $800 million-odd altogether. And this year it will be around one-half of that much. We have the figures. We will place them in the record at this point.

Mr. HEALY. I am sure that you do have them.

The CHAIRMAN. It was $829 million in 1964. We will put this table in the record at this point.

(The table is as follows:)

Mr. HENRY J. CASSO,

Economist, Senate Agricultural Committee,
Washington, D.C.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE,
Washington, D.C., February 17, 1966.

DEAR MR. CASSO: In response to your telephone request to Mr. Roy W. Lennartson, there is transmitted herewith a table showing the net realized losses and funds used for activities directly involving dairy products. Actual figures are provided for the years 1964 and 1965 but only estimates can be furnished at this juncture for fiscal 1966.

As you requested the table has been structured similar to that provided for the record covering the hearings before the Senate Subcommittee on Appropriations of the 1966 Budget.

We appreciate the opportunity of responding to your request.

Sincerely yours,

GEORGE L. MEHREN, Assistant Secretary.

Net realized losses and funds used for activities directly involving dairy products, fiscal years 1964-65 and 1966 (estimate)

Net realized losses and funds used for activities directly involving dairy products fiscal years 1964-65 and 1966 (estimate)-Continued

Amounts shown represent gross cost; do not reflect recoveries from sales of foreign currencies under Title I and collections under Title IV.

in

: Denotes negative item which results from adjustment of prior activitiy.

Mr. HEALY. I have some figures here, Senator, which show that

The CHAIRMAN. This includes everything.

Mr. HEALY. I would like at this point to put some figures into the ercord.

The CHAIRMAN. Anything that you want to put in to counteract this, if you have them, we would like to have them.

Mr. HEALY. Because I think the price-support program cost something in the neighborhood of $250 million last year. That is about $100 million on special milk. I would like to put them in at this point, if I may.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, you may.

Mr. HEALY. Because the $800-some million that you mentioned there is considerably beyond my recollection of what it was for the year.

The CHAIRMAN. It is all in detail here. You might look into it. If there is anything wrong with these figures, you might correct them. There is this letter from the Department of Agriculture itself. Mr. HEALY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It was not worked up by the committee.

Mr. HEALY. All right.

The CHAIRMAN. This is in three columns, 1964, 1965, and the estimate for 1966. That would include all of the milk programs.

Mr. HEALY. I appreciate the opportunity to put these in, because I think that we have a little bit different view on this thing. These are considerably apart from the numbers which were developed by the committee last year at about this time.

(The information is as follows:)

Hon. ALLEN J. ELLENDer,

NATIONAL MILK PRODUCERS FEDERATION,
Washington, D.C., June 23, 1966.

Chairman, Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry,

Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: During the testimony which I presented to your Committee on June 21, you introduced into the record a tabulation submitted

by the Department of Agriculture listing the costs for all of the dairy programs administered by the program for three years.

The tabulation indicated that for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1964, $829 million were spent; for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1965, the costs had been reduced to $403.9 million; and that the estimate for fiscal year ending June 30, 1966, indicated that the costs would be $390.2 million.

A review of these costs indicates that for the past three fiscal years the Commodity Credit Corporation has sustained ever decreasing costs. More current estimates for the 1966 fiscal year from the Department of Agriculture indicate that the realized loss and cost estimate has been reduced to $257.9 million.

When one considers that these costs are a total of price support operations, military milk programs, the payment-in-kind export programs, section 32 expenditures, the special milk program, and P.L. 480, it is remarkable that so much has been done for so many programs at this cost.

Sincerely,

PATRICK B. HEALY, Assistant Secretary.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything else?

Mr. HEALY. Yes, sir, I have a few more remarks.

I think it is very important, Senator, that you understand that this basic legislation which we have, much of which emanated from this committee, has done a remarkable job in maintaining farm income and in holding surpluses to a minimum.

The milk crop, which is the biggest crop in the country, has never had more than 7.5 percent surplus, and I think that it is a marvelous thing. I think also that many of these programs, the school lunch program and the school milk program, are a basic part of our milk programs, and when we start to tamper with them and to join them with this and that and use them to promote the Economic Opportunity Act, and so on, then we must be very careful. And the way we remain careful is to keep them apart, so that we can constantly look at them and you can constantly look at them.

The CHAIRMAN. That will be done, I can assure you, because the appropriation method is no different except with a few limitations than what is incorporated in this new bill. There is no difference at all. It is separate.

Mr. HEALY. It is separate.

The CHAIRMAN. And the appropriations will be separate.

Mr. HEALY. It is, of course, my thesis is that it should remain so. I was very, very happy to hear the Secretary of Agriculture, on page 9 of his testimony, depart from the attitude that has been expressed here before by the administration regarding this program. You know, they sent a budget request up here for about 20 percent of what had been used in the program before, and now he is asking that even the $100 million limitation on the authorization for the appropriation which is contained in this bill be eliminated; that funds can and should be provided. In other words, in keeping with the growth rate of the program-and it is a very happy occasion for me to come before this committee and to be able to endorse wholeheartedly what the Secretary has said.

The CHAIRMAN. You can blame me with the limitation, because I had it put in there.

Mr. HEALY. You had it put in there?

The CHAIRMAN. That is right. I simply put it in there so that the committee could give it thought.

Mr. HEALY. Yes, sir.