they're told that, they also know that some agency of the Federal Government is not taking a cross and dumping it into urine

Mr. REGULA. Have you testified before the authorizing committee?

Mr. MAWYER. No, I have not, sir.

Mr. REGULA. Well, they do have jurisdiction as to whether or not the program will be authorized for the future. So probably you should take an opportunity to testify before them.

Mr. MAWYER. I appreciate that, sir.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Yates, do you have a question or two?

Mr. YATES. I have a question. I'd like to put into the record, Mr. Chairman, the letter signed by Mr. Mawyer, dated-I'm sure he has no objection to my putting it in-November 11, containing the certificate of death that he wants for the National Endowment for the Arts. He says the father's name is Lyndon Johnson; the mother's name is Jane Alexander, the Chairman. I read that letter through. I think it's one of the most vicious, hateful letters that I've

ever seen.

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an values. its ridiculing of beliefs. and its glorification of obscenity and harcemuality.

Distributed by Christian Action Network

P.O. Box 506 Formt, VA. 24551

TOTAL P.88

Mr. MAWYER. And in all due respect, Congressman, that was not funded by NEA. Many of the creative things that the NEA has funded is hateful, that is anti-religious, funded directly with tax dollars. Not a single tax dollar went to that. And I believe that you are in favor of creativity, are you not?

Mr. YATES. In favor of what?

Mr. MAWYER. Creativity?

Mr. YATES. Oh, yes.

Mr. MAWYER. This right here is creativity. [Laughter.]
Are you not in favor of creativity?

Mr. YATES. Yes, but you're not. [Laughter.]

Mr. MAWYER. I am in favor of creativity, but I'm not in favor of tax dollars for

Mr. YATES. Well

Mr. REGULA. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. [Laughter.]
Mr. YATES. I just

Mr. REGULA. I understand.

Mr. YATES. I just want to talk about his testimony for a minute. On page-well, the pages aren't numbered, Mr. Chairman-on the third page of his testimony, he says this: "The examples I cited"-after talking about Mapplethorpe and Joel-Peter Witkin and Andre Serrano, Mr. Athey, whose names keep getting repeated year after year after year-he says this: "The examples I cited *** are only a small portion of the outrages we have discovered over the years. There are dozens and dozens more."

Dozens and dozens? How many does that mean in your

Mr. MAWYER. There's a whole book right there, and here's something that was funded just last summer, "How To Have Sex with Newt Gingrich's Mother," and all the highlighted areas that I—if you want me to read them-I don't think you really want me to. Mr. YATES. That wasn't funded by NEA.

Mr. MAWYER. It is not only funded by NEA, it has their logo on this sheet. It has the NEA logo on the paper.

Mr. YATES. Well, that's

Mr. MAWYER. But this is exactly what you're doing

Mr. YATES. That's a contract they no longer do.

Mr. MAWYER. You're doing exactly what the NEA does; you just deny it. You put your name on it and then you want to deny you had anything to do with it.

Mr. REGULA. Would you like to submit that for the record?

Mr. MAWYER. Yes, sir.

Mr. REGULA. All right, without objection.

[CLERK'S NOTE.-Information would not be discernable if reduced to fit this format. Information is available in committee files.] Mr. YATES. All right, "There are dozens and dozens more. * please allow me to continue a few myths about these works."

"Supporters of the Endowment insist that, among the tens of thousands of grants over the years, there are only several dozen works of a controversial nature." I have said that; that's true. That's my own statement.

"They say that's not a bad * * * record, so let's just leave well enough alone.

"There are several dozen, yes, and if that were it, that would be enough. But how many more? Only these have come to light, and

we are constantly discovering more. However, contrary to popular belief, we do not go to a big city museum every weekend and scour the walls to find NEA outrages." That surprises me. "We don't go on NEA hunting expeditions. The controversial projects we cited have all come to us by happenstance from our supporters, from our friends, from reports * * *. There may be hundred or possibly thousands more objectionable grants that we simply do not know about."

I notice that in your testimony today you talked about your 250,000 supporters; is that what you said? In your letter of May 8, 1995, you talked about the Christian Action Network, 65,000 supporters. What happened to the 400,000 supporters, the 40,000 supporters that you lost?

Mr. MAWYER. Excuse me. What was that dated, the one that you're pointing to?

Mr. YATES. Two hundred and fifty thousand

Mr. MAWYER. What's it dated?

Mr. YATES. May 8, 1995.

Mr. MAWYER. Right, and what's the-we're a lot farther along than that.

Mr. YATES. And now you have, what, 250,000?

Mr. MAWYER. Two hundred fifty thousand supporters.

Mr. YATES. Really? And they all make contributions to your organization?

Mr. MAWYER. They all have responded to this organization. We don't require somebody to have to give us money to be a supporter. Mr. YATES. Okay, Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to cross examine this gentleman any further. I just want to place in the record, with your permission, Mr. Chairman, an article that appeared in The Sun Times for November 11, 1994, showing what the NEA really does, not what Mr. Mawyer says they do, but what the NEA really does, in providing music, which is a form of art, throughout the country, and particularly in this little town of Jessup, Iowa. I won't ask any more questions, Mr. Chairman.

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