Mr. SULLIVAN. In my opinion, it would not.

Senator WALSH. Have you anything else to add, Mr. Sullivan? Mr. SULLIVAN. I think not, Senator.

Senator WALSH. Does anybody else desire to be heard?

Senator KEYES. There is one thing I would like to get in the record from Mr. Lynn, and that is the question of maintaining this central part of the Capitol, the expense we go to every 2 or 3 years in the way of painting, and such things, which I think is a factor.

Senator WALSH. Yes; we want to ask you, Mr. Lynn, if the building as it now exists is a source of expense; and if it is, will there be a reduction by this addition?

Mr. LYNN. We paint the old building and dome every 4 years, and I am asking this year for an appropriation of about $28,000 for this purpose.

Senator WALSH. That is for the front?

Mr. LYNN. That is the entire east and west fronts and the dome. Senator WALSH. But a large portion of that is shown on the front. Mr. LYNN. That is for the east front and the west front and the dome.

Senator WALSH. Have you made any estimate of the expense of these proposed changes?

Mr. LYNN. We made an estimate of $3,500,000 for the entire job. That would complete the east front in marble, in accordance with this plan, and face the west front with marble also; then we would have a complete marble building.

Senator BARBOUR. About how long would it take for that whole undertaking?

Mr. LYNN. About 2 years from date of contract.

Senator WALSH. I rather gather from what you say, Mr. Lynn, if the building is simply extended by an extension of the wall 12 feet, which, of course, would be an advantage, and helpful, it would not be of such an expense.

Mr. LYNN. No; that would be less expensive.

Senator WALSH. But I take it from the general statement that you are not so enthusiastically disposed toward that undertaking; in other words, while that would be beneficial, if we are going into the undertaking of making changes in the east front, we should make more elaborate changes.

That is what I judge from what you say.

Mr. LYNN. I think so, Senator Walsh.

Senator WALSH. Would you like to discuss these plans?

Mr. LYNN. Yes; and Mr. Sullivan would like to continue his statement.

Senator WALSH. We will be glad to hear you, Mr. Sullivan.

Mr. SULLIVAN. These other drawings are studies which show different projections of the front and different arrangements of the offices. In this study I have here the wall is brought forward 40 feet, and the portico 48 feet from the corresponding lines of the present building. At each side of the main entrance there is a wide stair

case.

Senator KEYES. For the record, can those be numbered such and such changes?

114898-35- -2

Senator WALSH. You are now discussing what?

Mr. SULLIVAN. I will call this "Study 1." I am leading up to the latest design Mr. Lynn is submitting, and showing the various stages of the work we have done in studying the problem.

As he has said, none of these sketches is submitted as final. It will take a great deal more time and study to work out all the details and arrive at a completely satisfactory scheme. It is the general arrangement only which we are presenting.

Study 1 maintains a cross corridor on the second floor, which is particularly important, for giving direct access on the second floor from wing to wing.

Senator WALSH. You mean the gallery floor.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes; the gallery floor.

Senator WALSH. There would not be a corridor on the main floor? Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes; there would be a corridor on the main floor also, but the one on the gallery floor gives a convenient means of passage from wing to wing that is now lacking. We also have here a room on each side (as shown here it is circular in shape, but that is just a detail and could be changed) which would be available for the general meetings of a large committee.

Senator KEYES. Is there anything in the record to show the construction of the Senate and House wings, and of the central portion? If there is not, I think it well to have in the record the fact that the Senate and House wings are constructed of marble, while the central part of the Capitol is constructed of sandstone at the present time. Mr. SULLIVAN.. Yes; and the sandstone is in bad condition in many places.

This next study is marked "Study 2 ", and shows another modification. In this sketch the wall is brought forward only 32 feet, and, of course, the depth of the rooms is quite a little reduced and they are less valuable for use as committee rooms than rooms of the size shown on Study 1.

Senator WALSH. Will you put "study 1" beside this one? Now, the difference in the front between 1 and 2 is how many feet? Mr. SULLIVAN. The projection in "study 2" is 32 feet and in "study 1" 40 feet. There is 8 feet difference in projection.

Senator WALSH. If you are going to do it, it is immaterial, so far as general appearance is concerned, whether you put it forward like this one or put it forward the 40 feet.

Senator BARBOUR. Let me make it clear as to this point of view: In extending the front eastwardly, still approaching the Capitol from the north or south, you could see each wing and get the general impression we are now so used to on each of these extensions.

Mr. SULLIVAN. The projection of the wings beyond the central portion will still give a recessed effect. The extension will not come out so far that there would be an obstruction from any point of view. In none of these schemes is there any change contemplated in the actual historic Capitol Building itself. "The old walls will remain.

Senator WALSH. That is, as you come along that corridor you would see the walls as they now exist.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes; that is so.

Senator BARBOUR. The main point in that connection is we want to have it clear in the record that nothing is contemplated which would

change the old rooms, which are so valuable, the Supreme Court room and the old House.

Senator WALSH. It does not mean you would necessarily retain the material of the walls as it is.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Not the exterior sandstone; no.

Senator BARBOUR. The rooms themselves would have the same size and shape.

Mr. LYNN. We would not make any changes which would affect the historic rooms.

Mr. SULLIVAN. This is the third plan, a modification of scheme B, which is the one to which Mr. Lynn refers in his statement.

Senator KEYES. That extends how far east?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That extends 40 feet.

Senator WALSH. Let me see the other plan again. There is a portico on these plans, more or less invisible.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes; this is the portico here. You can see how, by adding to the depth here, we can make these rooms very much more usable. Eight additional rooms are provided on each side.

Senator WALSH. If we go into the matter of considering, in connection with this project, additional rooms, what do you suggest would be the necessary width of the rooms in order to make them usable and serviceable for public purposes?

Mr. SULLIVAN. I understand from Mr. Lynn that the rooms in the southwest corner of the building, occupied by the House Committee on Appropriations, are very convenient for their purposes and are of good dimensions and the rooms on the front in the sketch now under consideration have almost precisely the dimensions of those rooms. Senator WALSH. Making a width of what?

Mr. SULLIVAN. The width varies; the depth is 26 feet.

Senator WALSH. Of course, the depth could be decreased or lessened, as desired, and the width is determined.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes; the lessening or increasing of the depth of the rooms would correspondingly increase or decrease the projection of the addition.

On the west, you will observe, additional rooms are also provided between the central portion and the wings.

Senator WALSH. That would be giving space for rooms more or less for the purpose of balancing the west end with the change in the east front.

Mr. SULLIVAN. We consider it would improve the appearance of the west front to bring those columns out further. It would tie the building together.

Senator BARBOUR. Mr. Chairman, while I probably should not be the one to make the suggestion here, I think really that models should be made, three or more of them, which will reflect the different suggestions, so that we can have them and substitute one for the other and see their actual appearance and study them that way. I think that is very important.

Senator KEYES. Yes; I think that is much more important and valuable than a flat plan.

Senator WALSH. Have you seen the model that is now in the Capitol?

Senator BARBOUR. Yes; I have.

Senator WALSH. I think that gives you a fairly good idea.

Senator BARBOUR. I think that is very good, but I think we should have two or three parts made so that you could substitute one for the other and we could visualize it that way.

Mr. LYNN. I think it would be advisable to have them. We have the original model and all we have to do is build the extensions and put them in place.

Senator WALSH. What would that cost?

Mr. LYNN. I could get you an accurate estimate on that in a day or two.

Senator WALSH. The general appropriation for the Architect's office would not be sufficient for that?

Mr. LYNN. No; it would not be sufficient.

Senator WALSH. Is it contemplated that the columns should extend to the wings, having in mind these marked here?

Mr. LYNN, Yes.

Senator WALSH. Are there columns there now?

Mr. LYNN. Yes; but back much further.

Senator WALSH. Would they extend up two stories?
Mr. LYNN. Yes.

Senator WALSH. Do they now extend two stories?

Mr. LYNN. Yes; they extend two stories.

Mr. SULLIVAN. That is the precise location here of the columns. Senator WALSH. How much would the new east front recede from the east front of the wings?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Fifteen feet.

Senator WALSH. What is the recess today?

Mr. SULLIVAN. The recess today from wall line to wall line is 55 feet.

Senator BARBOUR. And there is a wider stair contemplated.
Senator WALSH. And closer to the portico?

Senator BARBOUR. Yes.

Mr. LYNN. As it is, the steps leading up to the central entrance now are narrower than the steps leading up to the House and Senate entrances, and, of course, the central entrance should be the most important one. Except for the change in the projections, the possible addition of a column on each side of the portico, and the widening of the steps, it is not proposed to make any change whatsoever in the architectural design of the east front, but simply to reproduce the present design and details in marble.

Senator WALSH. Is there anything else to be called to the attention of the committee? If not, we will adjourn the meeting; and I thank these gentlemen, for the committee feels we have made a great deal of progress and have been very much enlightened by your presentation of this matter, and we will give it our serious consideration. (Thereupon, at 11:25 a. m., the hearing adjourned.)