Mr. HANSON. GAO, which goes over all of Mr. Dunkle's records very closely for certifications evidencing compliance with legislative or regulatory provisions.

Mr. ANDREWS. I understand you will not authorize the purchase of any of these specially equipped cars unless the need is certified by the agency head, but my question is, Who determines the need? For example, an investigative or security agency is not engaged in policetype work out in the open with a siren and red lights, et cetera. It would be interesting to know how many they have and how they got them and what use they make of them.

Mr. DUNKLE. I doubt I can get the information as to what use such agencies make of them. We could get the information on how many were purchased for them with this equipment.

TWO-WAY RADIO EQUIPMENT

Mr. ANDREWS. By what authority do some agencies equip automobiles with two-way police-type radio? Who procures and installs such equipment? Is this now considered to be within the procurement limitation?

Mr. HANSON. Because they are removable and can be placed in any vehicle or used independently of a vehicle. Two-way radios are purchased or rented by the agencies independently of the vehicle purchase and are therefore not considered within the scope of the limitation.

Mr. ANDREWS. Who buys and who installs such equipment?

Mr. HANSON. The agencies have been buying it and paying for its installation.

Mr. ANDREWS. And the only extras General Services are concerned with are those you listed?

Mr. HANSON. Yes. We would not buy other accessories. Those listed are the only ones that would be purchased under our proposal, if the committee agrees. However we would not buy all of them for every car. The agencies would indicate which ones they needed for their particular activity and certify that they needed them. With such a certification we could go ahead and procure their requirements.

PROPORTION OF CAR PURCHASES WITH SPECIAL EQUIPMENT

Mr. ANDREWS. On page 94 of the hearings on the regular bill, it is stated that 2,243 automobiles had been procured as of January 31, 1957. Your present justifications indicate that as of February 18, 1957, 1,184 vehicles had been purchased for surveillance and policetype activities. In other words, more than 50 percent of the new purchases were police cars or these specially equipped cars used for policetype activities.

Mr. DUNKLE. Apparently during the specified period that was true, but I do not believe that is generally true of the overall. We can furnish that information for the record also.

Mr. ANDREWS. You have purchased a total of 1,184 of these specially equipped police-type cars?

Mr. DUNKLE. That was in a 712-month period during which we bought 775 for the FBI. That is probably the reason for the high percentage.

Mr. HANSON. I would venture a guess that your procurement of this type of vehicle is under 1,000 on an average, each year. Would you say that is about right?

Mr. DUNKLE. I would rather get the actual figures.

INSTALLATION OF SPECIAL EQUIPMENT

Mr. ANDREWS. What police-type equipment is factory installed? Mr. HANSON. Any of the items listed would be factory installed if we bought them with the vehicle. Some could be installed later, but at greater expense. The items we have listed here are all regular factory installations.

Mr. ANDREWS. Including the siren?

Mr. HANSON. Yes.

Mr. ANDREWS. What special equipment or police-type equipment is installed by Government garages?

Mr. HANSON. The only ones I know that are installed by Government garages-not necessarily by Government garages but by commercial garages or Government garages-are radios, sirens, and flasher lights.

Mr. ANDREWS. All this equipment could be installed in Government garages by Government employees, could it not?

Mr. HANSON. It could be. Even, two-way radios could be. Sometimes if a car is bought without spotlights or if lights or sirens have been damaged, they are installed. The alternators are sometimes replaced, or if a car is bought without, they could be installed.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you think it would be cheaper for the Government to buy the special equipment and have it installed at Government garages where you are buying at a rate of a thousand a year?

Mr. HANSON. Buying it installed is much cheaper.

Mr. ANDREWS. Does GSA now procure, for replacement purposes, complete motors, or motorblocks-complete transmissions, differentials, or other major mechanical components?

Mr. DUNKLE. No, sir, not to my knowledge. We do have contracts with motor equipment manufacturers for parts and subassemblies. These are optional for use by the various agencies. We negotiate with the manufacturers for discounts and the agencies use the contracts to order spare parts. Whether the agencies are buying extra parts, I cannot say.

Mr. ANDREWS. Does GSA now procure, for replacement, complete fenders, doors, or other body components?

Mr. DUNKLE. To the extent they would be listed in the manufacturers' parts price list, they would be covered by our contracts. Mr. ANDREWS. How many approved unfilled requisitions for policetype vehicles are now pending?

Mr. DUNKLE. I will have to furnish that information for the record, sir.

(GSA later informed the committee that no such requisitions are now pending.)

Mr. ANDREWS. Does the military procure its armed services police vehicles within the dollar limitation?

Mr. DUNKLE. Mr. Hanson, do you know about the military operations?

Mr. HANSON. I am under the impression that the armed services use a standard vehicle on which they have installed the necessary equipment after they purchase it. I think that is generally true. Í was trying to remember if I had ever seen a purchase invitation where they were buying special police-type vehicles, and I do not recall ever seeing one. They do their own buying and we do not always know what they are purchasing.

AGENCIES REQUISITIONING SPECIALLY EQUIPPED CARS DURING PAST 2 YEARS

Mr. ANDREWS. What departments, agencies, and bureaus have requisitioned police-type vehicles during the past 2 years, and for what departments, agencies, and bureaus have police-type vehicles been procured during the past 2 years? Which of these agencies requisition and obtain vehicles equipped with flashing red lights and sirens, indicative of police traffic enforcement vehicles?

Mr. DUNKLE. Sir, for details of that nature we would have to make a check of our records.

Mr. ANDREWS. I wish you would do that and give us a list of the departments, agencies, and bureaus which have requisitioned such vehicles and for which such vehicles have been procured.

(The information requested was furnished as follows:)

DISPOSAL OF SPECIALLY EQUIPPED CARS

Mr. ANDREWS. What disposition is made of police-type vehicles after they have reached the end of their normal useful life, and what recovery is made, if any, of the value of the heavy-duty or extra-quality equipment contained in them?

Mr. HANSON. The vehicles are normally disposed of in the same channels that we dispose of other vehicles. The 2-way radios are removed because that is an item that is readily removable from one vehicle to another. The engine is normally worn out and that stays with the vehicle. Generally that is true of the other equipment listed with the exception of the siren and spotlight. Those are sometimes removed because they have a relatively short life and are used for replacements on their other vehicles if needed.

Mr. ANDREWs. Will the siren wear out before the motor or the vehicle?

Mr. HANSON. Sometimes, and sometimes they are damaged in the course of the vehicle's operation. They have a relatively shorter life than the vehicle.

Mr. ANDREWS. How about the signal lights?

Mr. HANSON. The signal lights are standard equipment. They are not listed here. Of course, things happen to them.

Mr. ANDREWS. I mean the red flashing lights, the ones you list here as the red flasher lights.

Mr. HANSON. I do not know the answer to that.

Mr. ANDREWS. I wish you would find out the answer and insert it in the record.

(The following statement was supplied later :)

Generally, when law enforcement vehicles are disposed of to the public, all special items such as red flasher lights, sirens, radios, or equipment which might be unlawfully used, are removed. If usable, they are reused, generally for replacements of similar items on vehicles in the existing fleet, which have been damaged or worn out. In some instances, where quantity permits, items are installed on new purchases. However, this is expensive and usually presents difficulties and problems due to changes in models and other technical changes such as the recent change from 6- to 12-volt electrical systems.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you not think that when you equip these cars especially for police work, with a red flashing light and a siren, and so forth, that you could take those items off the old cars and put them on the new ones when you are buying at the rate of a thousand or 1,100 a year?

Mr. HANSON. In some instances, possibly. If you take a red flasher light that cost you $22 and has been used for quite a while, and install it in a new car I doubt if you would save any money.

Mr. ANDREWS. There is nothing about it, is there, to wear out?

Mr. HANSON. No; but it is a rather expensive item to change. There is quite a bit of work involved in changing a flasher light. When you have to pay $4.50 to $5 an hour for that type of work, it only takes 2 or 3 hours until you have equaled the cost of a new item.

Mr. ANDREWS. If this language is adopted as requested do you not think there will be a terrific increase in the number of requests for this type vehicle?

Mr. HANSON. No, sir; because this will just permit, with your approval, procurement of vehicles so equipped which up until last spring had been the practice under our interpretation of the GAO decision.