officially counted unemployed are ineligible for unemployment insurance benefits.

Yes, inflation, which touches us all, should be a major concern for the policymakers of the country but not at the expense of the unemployed. For each of the millions of Americans who are without jobs, the unemployment rate is 100 percent. Compounding that problem, as George Meany noted last week at the AFL-CIO convention from which I have just returned, is the fact that "the longer people are unemployed, the easier it is for the well off and the comfortable to forget."

Yet, at the same time, the longer people are unemployed, the more desperate their situation becomes. I appear at this hearing today on H.R. 50, despite the fact that neither my union, the United Steelworkers of America, nor the AFL-CIO have formulated a position or presented prior testimony on the proposal, in order to emphasize how very serious we in labor view the current economic crisis of this country to be.

Mr. Chairman, we in labor support the intent of your bill, H.R. 50. We support the concept of economic planning, and this bill points in that direction. We see the need for goals as well as for forecasts in the economic area. But, Mr. Chairman, to quote an editorial in a recent AFL-CIO News: "We are convinced that no single piece of legislation will restore the economy to health or achieve full employment. The recession is too deep, the problems too complex for any one magic

cure."

The fact is that the Employment Act of 1946, which H.R. 50 would supplement, supposedly committed the Government of this Nation to the goal of full employment. Adopted by a bipartisan majority in the Congress and signed by President Truman it called for the creation and maintenance of "conditions under which there will be afforded useful employment opportunities, including self-employment, for those able, willing and seeking work, and to promote maximum employment, production and purchasing power." Over the past three decades the Government has turned its back and walked away from that commitment.

Currently leading that retreat is President Ford who in a brief 14 months in that office has vetoed some 40 measures, many of which would have directly created jobs for millions of Americans. The Emergency Jobs bill, to create almost one million new jobs in the public sector, was vetoed by the President on May 28 of this year. Other vetoed measures would have authorized needed moneys for five important Federal health programs including community health centers, family planning, mental health programs and general health grants to the States for the training of nurses, for other health services, for emergency housing legislation-measures which had job implications as well as great importance to the American consumer.

Last week the Congress overrode the presidential veto of a child. nutrition bill but this was only the seventh time that the necessary two-thirds has been mustered-a record that is not good enough.

Today's chief task is to end the recession and to right an economy that has, due to incorrect and unworkable Government policies, gone wrong, and the top priority, if that is to be accomplished, is to gain

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enough congressional votes to override Mr. Ford on his vetoes of jobcreating measures. When enough Members of the Congress reject the myths upon which the President's economic policies are based, that can happen-and then, and only then, can our Nation begin the long trek to true full employment.

I would like to thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for inviting me to testify before your subcommittee this morning.

Mr. HAWKINS. Thank you, Mr. McNamara. I certainly commend you on your statement. However, on page 4 of the prepared statement I am not so sure that I really understand what you are saying. You seem to be stating that labor views the present situation as a very serious one and that labor supports the intent of H.R. 50. I really don't know just what you mean by supporting the intent of Congress and actually supporting something which is concrete and something that you are actually accomplishing. Is it that you are just simply supporting the phrase "full employment" or do you support that in actual assurance of jobs plus the mechanism to implement that thought or that concept? I am not so sure I understand what you are saying.

Mr. MCNAMARA. We support the principles embodied in the bill. However, it is our judgment that simply passing this measure will not be enough, that we must have other auxiliary legislation implementing specific concrete programs. What we are saying also is that even if we were to pass this kind of a bill and if we were not able to override the President's veto on specific measures, and even worse not get them passed, then this will would be the same kind of a meaningless gesture as was the original bill which was passed in 1946. So we feel that this is good but what we are afraid of and what our concern is, is that a bill like this might be passed and then everyone sit back complacently and say, "We have done a marvelous thing," and then fail to implement specific programs that must be dealt with to solve the problem.

Mr. HAWKINS. I understand that and I can't say that I disagree with you. It is certainly not the intent that one bill is a panacea for all of the evils. It was never presented as such. But would you agree that the passage of such a bill making such a commitment and spelling out some mechanism for the effectuation of a principle is at least the first step that should be taken? In other words, is it labor's position that we should take that first step understanding that other things must also be done?

Mr. MCNAMARA. Yes. Certainly we welcome the bill as a first and very important step providing other successive steps follow in the wake of the first step but if we stop with one step, then we have not solved the problem. That is our position basically.

Mr. HAWKINS. But if you place on certain officials the responsibility of taking these additional steps in order to reach a particular end result, if you mandate that as the Employment Act of 1946 did not do, and if you spell out more specifically what the end result is to be, have you not in effect placed on certain officials and placed on the Federal Government an obligation to do something which it does not have at the present time and would that not necessitate other steps being taken?

Obviously the sponsors of this bill are also in the process of developing public service employment, public projects, trying to effect

monetary and fiscal policies. I am sure that Mr. Reuss' committee is very much interested in revitalizing the housing industry. These are all other steps which obviously go into a program that fits into a full employment program. Now we recognize that but my point is, is it labor's position that they are not willing to take the first step but wish to go

FROM THE FLOOR. We are unemployed. We have been unemployed for a long time. You guys are not taking steps.

Mr. HAWKINS. The Chair is going to be as tolerant as possible. I don't mind you interrupting me but you are not going to interrupt the witness. Shouting.]

If you will be quiet, we will let you speak a little later.

FROM THE FLOOR. Let the unemployed tell you.

Mr. HAWKINS. We have

FROM THE FLOOR. We want to know what you are doing.

Mr. HAWKINS. If you would be quiet for a little while and listen-
FROM THE FLOOR. We have been listening. [Shouting.]

Mr. HAWKINS. If anybody gets unduly disturbed, we have methods of taking care of that. I give you that as a warning.

FROM THE FLOOR. We want jobs now.

FROM THE FLOOR. We got no income. We are disturbed.

FROM THE FLOOR. Have you ever been in an unemployment line, man?

FROM THE FLOOR. Do you know what it is like to be hungry, man? Do you know what it is like not to have a job? Man, I'm tired of this jive talk.

FROM THE FLOOR. What are you supposed to do when you get kicked out of your house?

FROM THE FLOOR [shouting.] Jobs now, jobs now, jobs now.

Mr. HAWKINS. Well, thank you.

Now, Mr. McNamara, maybe we can go on.

FROM THE FLOOR. Speaking of the unemployed, sir, these are petitions from the Unemployed Workers Organizing Committee. We have I don't know how many signatures here and across the country. We have thousands of these signatures, millions of them probably. Mr. HAWKINS. Would you like to put

FROM THE FLOOR. This is no joke. These are unemployed people who are in unemployment lines every day.

Mr. HAWKINS. If you would be quiet a minute, can I ask you this? FROM THE FLOOR. Yes, ask me anything you want.

Mr. HAWKINS. Would you like to present those for the committee for the official record?

FROM THE FLOOR. We want jobs.

FROM THE FLOOR. We asked to speak and we were told we could not speak. We were told we are unemployed people and we could not speak. You talk about balanced budgets-we cannot even balance or own budget.

FROM THE FLOOR. We don't want to hear no jive talk, man. [Shouting and applause.]

FROM THE FLOOR. We go to get a job and they won't give us a job. FROM THE FLOOR. You talk about the balanced budget. What about us? I just had a kid, man, and I can't even buy him a damn crib and you talk about balancing a damn budget. We want a job.

FROM THE FLOOR. You don't want to hear from the unemployed. FROM THE FLOOR. You hear from labor. We have no jobs from year to year. You passed a bill in 1946 and there still are not any jobs out here. [Applause.]

FROM THE FLOOR. You know damn well there is no work now so we demand a job right now. We don't want to hear your jive talking.

FROM THE FLOOR. We want decent jobs. We don't want to work for peanuts. We want decent jobs.

FROM THE FLOOR. Brothers and sisters, decent jobs for decent wages. FROM THE FLOOR. We don't want to come here and listen to a bunch of bull. You are talking a bunch of bull.

FROM THE FLOOR. We just started to turn on the heat, Jack. [Applause and clapping.]

FROM THE FLOOR. I can't even buy my baby daughter a $3 pair of pants. What do you say about that? You are trying to get elected. "Oh, well, we will have this nice hearing."

FROM THE FLOOR. It's nice to talk about Appalachia but what about us?

Mr. HAWKINS. Mr. McNamara, would you please answer one other question.

We will give everybody an opportunity to be heard if you wish to avail yourselves of that opportunity.

FROM THE FLOOR. We were told we could not speak.

Mr. HAWKINS. I am telling you you can speak.

FROM THE FLOOR. Let him move out of that chair, this man.

Mr. HAWKINS. Wait for your time. He is a worker as you are.
FROM THE FLOOR. S___. He can s___ a lot of profit out of us.
FROM THE FLOOR. Let him talk.

Mr. MCNAMARA. In response to your question, Mr. Chairman, we support this bill as the first step in the right direction, assuming that other successive legislation is passed by the Congress devoted to specific problems in a wide variety of fields.

FROM THE FLOOR. You are jive talking, man. What the hell did you do about it?

[Applause.]

FROM THE FLOOR. Twenty-five grand a year doesn't make you a worker, man.

FROM THE FLOOR. How about spending $5,000 for Able? What about him? Talking about steelworkers, you can get the steelworkers the right to strike because they give us what they want us to have, not what the workers need. This dude right here is just pulling a lot of jive coming up here with a lot of stuff.

Mr. HAWKINS. Mr. McNamara, do you care to elaborate on the comment?

FROM THE FLOOR. We have heard enough of Mr. McNamara.

Mr. HAWKINS. If you would keep quiet and let us try to be sensible to the extent

[Shouting.]

FROM THE FLOOR. How can you be sensible when you don't know where your next meal is coming from?

Mr. HAWKINS. If you wish to be heard, we will give you that opportunity. Now if you don't want to be heard and want to continue what you are now doing, then it is impossible for anybody to be heard.

FROM THE FLOOR. So let him talk.

[Shouting.]

FROM THE FLOOR. Let this man speak.

FROM THE FLOOR. He has been waiting patiently.

Mr. HAWKINS. I will arrange for this man to speak.

FROM THE FLOOR. You won't arrange an opportunity

Mr. HAWKINS. Are you willing to be quiet until we communicate with someone?

FROM THE FLOOR. We want to hear

Mr. HAWKINS. I said, are you willing to be quiet until we communicate with someone or do you wish to drown out the very man you want to speak?

FROM THE FLOOR. I tell you, let him be quiet. Give my baby some milk, no way. We don't want any of your jive bull-_--_. [Applause.]

Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, what are you standing up for?

Mr. BURGESS. To speak.

FROM THE FLOOR. I don't know whether you are aware of this, Congressman

Mr. HAWKINS. Pardon me, Mr. McNamara.

FROM THE FLOOR. I don't know whether you are aware of this but the situation is serious and this is only a small part of it. [Applause.]

FROM THE FLOOR. The situation is so serious

Mr. HAWKINS. Let me ask you this.

[Shouting.]

FROM THE FLOOR. Don't interrupt.

Mr. HAWKINS. Let me ask you this. Are you seeking an opportunity

to speak?

[Shouting.]

Mr. HAWKINS. What time do you desire?

FROM THE FLOOR. Right now.

[Shouting.]

FROM THE FLOOR. Right now.

Mr. HAWKINS. Will you let the man speak for himself?

Look, I have been through many demonstrations.

FROM THE FLOOR. You have what?

Mr. HAWKINS. I have been through burning buildings.

FROM THE FLOOR. You can be through hell, I don't care where you

have been.

Mr. HAWKINS. Let that man speak.

FROM THE FLOOR. Jobs now.

Mr. HAWKINS. Let that man speak. [Shouting.]

Mr. HAWKINS. Do you want that man to speak or do you want to speak for him?

FROM THE FLOOR. We want jobs now.

FROM THE FLOOR. You should have burned up while you were in the

Mr. BURGESS. First of all, I am a veteran, I served in World War II for 1111⁄2 years. I have had a part-time job out at the Veterans' Administration for the last 2 years, going on 3 years, and I can't find supplemental work. For 2 years I have had a part-time job.