After all, you folks in your Department know as well as we this is the purpose of an authorizing bill, to set up a ceiling of authorization for the amount to be expended. It is perfectly possible at some later date if the circumstances warrant it for the interested department to come back to this authorizing committee and say we would like to ask if you would supplement the authorization. We have done this for many laws.

Secretary HODGES. Mr. Congressman, I would like to say I don't blame you in the least for raising this very practical question. If we can't give you this figure before the time has expired, I think you will have to put some kind of limit or have us come back with a supplemental.

Mr. BALDWIN. I would feel I would have to offer in the subcommittee some amendment of some type, but I would like to get some guidance from you folks.

Secretary HODGES. We will be glad to stay in touch with your staff on this subject to answer a very good question.

Mr. DAVIS. That concludes the hearings today. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary, for an excellent presentation.

I should like for the record to show the presence of our colleagues, Mr. Ryan of Michigan, and Mr. Jennings, of Virginia, and Mr. Tuten, from Georgia.

So the subcommittee will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow. (Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., the ad hoc subcommittee recessed to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, May 7, 1964.)

APPALACHIAN REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1964

THURSDAY, MAY 7, 1964

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE ON
APPALACHIAN REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT

OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS,

Washington, D.C.

The ad hoc subcommittee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 1302, Longworth Building, Hon. Clifford Davis (chairman of the ad hoc committee) presiding.

Mr. DAVIS. The subcommittee will be in order. We have a rule in this subcommittee that we meet on time. That means that the hour has now reached 10 o'clock.

We are pleased to have with us as the first witness this morning the Secretary of the Army, the Honorable Stephen Ailes.

We are resuming our hearings on H.R. 11065.

So, Mr. Secretary, we welcome you with the greatest of pleasure.

STATEMENT OF HON. STEPHEN AILES, SECRETARY OF THE ARMY; ACCOMPANIED BY HARRY MCPHERSON, ASSISTANT TO THE SECRETARY OF THE ARMY FOR CIVIL FUNCTIONS

Secretary AILES. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your putting me on first this morning. As you know, I have to be in St. Louis for lunch, which makes it a little complicated. However, I want to stay here as long as I can be of any help, and I will be glad to return.

We have other witnesses who can answer any question I can't answer, who will be able to stay longer than I can. I do have a short prepared statement which I should like to read.

My name is Stephen Ailes, Secretary of the Army. I am appearing here today representing the Secretary of Defense with respect to defense activities in this region, and as the Secretary of the Army with regard to the civil works mission.

Both the Department of Defense and the Department of the Army participated in the development of the broad program for the Appalachian region which you have before you in the form of H.R. 11065. We are convinced that the enactment of this bill would lay the groundwork for a sound economic development of this underdeveloped region. Hence, we support the enactment of H.R. 11065.

We propose to support this program by accelerating within the Appalachian region the regular civil works program of the Corps of Engineers. The President has, in fact, already made provision, in his budget for fiscal year 1965, for starting our portion of the Appalachian program.

Further, the administration expects to submit a supplemental request for funds if H.R. 11065 is enacted. The current estimate for the Corps of Engineers' part of the "special Appalachian program” is in the range of $25 to $30 million.

This program contemplates the acceleration of construction on projects already underway, the earliest possible initiation of a number of previously authorized projects not yet started, and the acceleration of studies looking toward the development of new proposals for submission to Congress.

The civil works program of the Corps of Engineers makes a vital contribution toward the economic development of underdeveloped regions such as Appalachia. It does this by providing protection from floods, by making available dependable water supplies for industrial and municipal use, by greatly expanding the opportunities for healthful outdoor recreation through the creation of lakes and surrounding public use areas, by the generation of electrical energy of special value for peaking purposes, by the abatement of pollution through increasing the low water flows of the main streams of the region, by enhancing the fish and wildlife resource, and by reducing the cost of transportation through the provision of navigable waterways where this is found to be economically feasible.

In short, we propose to advance the economic development of Appalachia by making possible the utilization of one of its greatest natural resources-the waters with which it has been so richly endowed by nature.

It is the inadequate control of water which the President points to, "which breeds both floods and scarcity of water for industrial and recreational purposes," as one of the reasons for the lag of economic progress in Appalachia.

This Department's work in the region will, of course, constitute an integral part of the overall comprehensive program to be developed by the Appalachian Regional Commission contemplated by title I of H.R. 11065. Moreover, we expect to work very closely with the Commission in the planning and carrying out of its program.

The Department of Defense as well as the Department of the Army in its civil works program stand ready to do their share in achieving the worthwhile goals set by H.R. 11065. We urge the Congress to make possible the carrying out of the President's program in its entirety.

Thank you.

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. To expedite your departure to St. Louis, which shows you the speed with which we are all operating in this thing

Secretary AILES. This is an incredible age, without a doubt.

Mr. DAVIS. I am not going to ask any questions because your statement speaks for itself.

Mr. Baldwin, do you have any questions?

Mr. BALDWIN. Yes; I do.

Mr. Ailes, I have reviewed the bill very carefully. The bill does not include any section or provision that I can find that specifically refers to the Army or the Corps of Engineers.

Now, if I understand your statement correctly, you simply intend to expedite projects which at the present time have already been authorized by the Congress; is that right?

Secretary AILES. That is right, sir. That is in the short range. The President's letter to the Speaker does make some reference to this. It points out that no authorizing legislation is required to enable the Corps of Engineers to do its role in this connection.

Mr. BALDWIN. Then I have this question. Since you simply would be proceeding more rapidly to do projects already authorized by Congress, you have the right to go ahead with such projects on a more rapid basis if you request funds in the budget for that purpose any

way.

Secretary AILES. That is correct, sir; in other words, assuming that the necessary funds are provided, we can accomplish this acceleration. Mr. BALDWIN. Then if that is the case, why is the statement made here, "Further, the administration expects to submit a supplemental request for funds if H.R. 11065 is enacted?" You don't have to have H.R. 11065 to submit a supplemental request for funds to speed up projects already authorized by Congress.

Secretary AILES. Sir, I think that is essentially correct. I think the point is that we have contemplated moving forward on these projects and accelerating these projects if there is a total program in the Appalachian region. As you know, the problem of how fast you go forward with all the projects throughout the land is a complicated one and it has seemed to us--it seemed to the people who have worked on this program, and I am not one of them-that it makes sense to accelerate these Corps of Engineers' projects if there is a total program taking place here. At least that was my understanding of the situation.

Mr. BALDWIN. One of the members on our side who is not here has left three questions and has asked me if I would ask them for him. I will read the first one.

In recent days there have been several references to electrical power in connection with development of this Appalachian region. For example, President Johnson, on April 25, referred to steam electric plants like TVA for the area.

Under Secretary Roosevelt, last Tuesday, discussed mine-mouth steamplants and Secretary Udall's prepared statement yesterday had an extensive discussion on coal-fired electric plants in Appalachia. The question is, Is there provision in this bill for the generation of electric power or is it contemplated specifically by the Corps of Engineers?

Secretary AILES. Can Mr. McPherson answer that question, sir? Mr. BALDWIN. Yes.

Mr. MCPHERSON. I am Harry McPherson, Mr. Ailes' assistant for the civil functions program.

There is nothing in the bill for the production of power by the corps. The corps has written to Secretary Udall, however, that it would be quite interested in the production of power for peaking purposes which would dovetail in with the mine-mouth generation

program.

Mr. BALDWIN. But there is nothing specific in this bill that would authorize the corps to engage in such a program.

Mr. MCPHERSON. No, sir.

Mr. BALDWIN. I have two other questions. The second question is this. Secretary Udall testified yesterday that there are several addi