functions of the Commission were also conducted for Congressmen and their staffs. I know that Chairman Jones considered as one of his major goals the facilitation of the orderly changeover of administration.

Mr. THOMAS. How old is the Civil Service Commission?

Mr. MACY. The Civil Service Commission was established in 1883. That makes it 78 years old.

Mr. THOMAS. Then why should it be necessary to brief someone for a changeover? The Civil Service Commission should function regardless of a change in administration.

Mr. MACY. The reasoning was that changeover would be facilitated if the new executives had an understanding of how the Commission functioned and their particular part in the function. Our experience in previous transitions had indicated that Government functions could be carried on with greater efficiency if some time was taken at the initial appointment of new executives to explain to them just how the system operated and just what their part was in that operation.

Chairman Jones discussed the subject with Federal officials at every opportunity and urged them to develop ways in which personnel management could meet the problems involved. I am privileged to succeed a Chairman with such outstanding qualities of leadership.

As a part of my reintroduction into the Commission and its operations, I have spent considerable time with our capable executive director, Warren B. Irons, and his staff going over the programs of the Commission and the basis for the funds requested to carry them out. In the light of my review, the budget requests we are considering here today appear fair and reasonable. They represent minimum requirements to meet the needs of a progressive program for personnel administration in the Federal service.

TRENDS IN FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT

The total Federal civilian employment on December 31, 1960, was 2,372,563, a decrease of about 7,500 from a year ago and a 45,000 decrease from June 30, 1957. Of this total, 2,066,000, or slightly more than 87 percent, were in the competitive service. The Commission is using a conservative estimate of 2,035,000 as average employment in the competitive service for both the current and the budget year. The new hire rate for fiscal years 1961 and 1962 is estimated at 15 percent, the same as actual experience during the past 3 fiscal years. Applying this experience to estimated Federal employment for fiscal year 1962, 305,000 new hires will be required as a result of turnover in the staff engaged on the continuing functions of the Government. About 92 percent of the new hires will be made from registers maintained by the Commission and its boards of examiners or by reinstatement of qualified former Federal employees. Mr. THOMAS. You set out a figure of 90,000 for the rehiring of old employees?

Mr. MACY. Reinstatements would run about 43,000.

Mr. THOMAS. Is it 40,000 or 90,000?

Mr. MACY. About 43,000. That reduces the new hire figure by that amount from 305,000.

I would like to discuss briefly the specific programs and responsibilities of the Commission and the dollar requirements to carry them out as set forth in the budget document before you.

SALARIES AND EXPENSES APPROPRIATION

In the document before you, the total request for fiscal year 1962 is $21,829,000, an increase of $1,068,000 over the amount already appropriated for 1961 and a supplemental appropriation to cover pay increase costs resulting from legislation enacted last July. However, since the document was submitted, the President has announced abolishment of the President's Committee on Fund Raising Within the Federal Service. Our budget request includes $50,000 for this Committee, $39,000 for personal services and $11,000 for other expenses. Therefore, our needs are reduced by $50,000 changing the total requirements to $21,779,000.

PRESIDENTS COMMITTEE ON EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY

The President recently issued Executive Order 10925 abolishing the President's Committee on Government Employment Policy. The powers, functions, and duties of that Committee were transferred to the President's Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity in which the Civil Service Commission will participate under the Committee chairmanship of Vice President Johnson. The Commission's budget request for the Committee on Government Employment Policy is $48,100 consisting of $39,200 for personal services and $8,900 for other expenses. Since the Executive order provides that the participating agencies contribute to the expenses of the new Committee, we request that these funds remain in our budget to be available for financing the Commission's share of the continuing functions of the new Committee.

Mr. THOMAS. What will be the total cost of the new Committee? Mr. MACY. That I do not know. To my knowledge that has not been determined yet.

Mr. THOMAS. How did you arrive at the figure of $50,000 for your part, then?

Mr. MACY. We are not sure what our share will be. We do not have specific information as yet as to just what the organization of that Committee will be. It will not become effective under the Executive order until April 6.

CAREER EXECUTIVE BOARD

Mr. THOMAS. While we are on that subject, let me ask you a kindred question: What became of the prohibition that no part of this appropriation shall be available to the Career Executive Board establishment? What happened to that?

Mr. MACY. The Career Executive Board, which had been established by an Executive order in the previous administration, was eliminated as a result of that provision.

Mr. THOMAS. Was it eliminated or just the name?

Mr. MACY. No; the Board was eliminated altogether, canceled out. Mr. THOMAS. Go ahead.

RECRUITING AND EXAMINING

Mr. MACY. The Commission's principal objective under this activity is to meet the employment needs of the Federal service with

the best qualified persons available, obtained through open competitive examinations conducted by the Commission and its boards of examiners operating in the agencies. The budget request for fiscal year 1962 is $5,236,000, an increase of $257,000 for this activity. In addition to the net cost of within-grade salary advancements, this increase provides for $105,300 to meet additional recruiting needs, $82,500 for the establishment and maintenance of a new Federal employment statistical program, and $39,000 for the President's Committee on Fund Raising Within the Federal Service which, as I mentioned earlier, is no longer required.

Mr. THOMAS. Is there any authorization for your employment statistical program?

Mr. MACY. Any legislative authorization?

Mr. THOMAS. Yes.

Mr. MACY. No. This is an administrative request to assist in carrying out the functions of the Commission in the total personnel field.

Mr. THOMAS. I did not find the details of that particular new unit under "Recruiting.

Mr. MACY. Mr. Chairman, if I may I would like to go into that in some detail after I have completed this statement.

INCREASE IN RECRUITING PROGRAM

Mr. JONAS. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question at this point?
Mr. THOMAS. Go ahead.

Mr. JONAS. I notice you are asking for $105,300 in new money to maintain contacts with universities, trade associations, professional societies, and so forth as a part of your recruiting program.

Mr. MACY. Yes, sir.

Mr. JONAS. What does that bring the total amount to, that is, it is how much plus $105,300?

Mr. MACY. This will double our complement of recruiters in activity 1. It will make it possible for this activity to reach additional sources.

Mr. JONAS. I am only interested right now in the money angle. What will the additional $105,300 run it to?

Mr. MACY. $506,500.

Mr. JONAS. $506,500. It is correct to say you propose to spend that much to defray the costs and expenses of travel and conferences and contacts with the universities, trade associations, professional societies, and so forth?

Mr. MACY. This covers the whole function of informing the public about opportunities in the Federal service.

Mr. JONAS. Are you having any difficulty getting applications now with 5 to 6 percent of the eligible people in the country unemployed? It would seem to me you would not be having any difficulty in getting more applicants than you can provide places for.

Mr. MACY. This would be a very natural impression, but it happens that those who are unemployed are for the most part in occupations where the Federal service needs do not exist. Our recruiting effort is aimed primarily at securing applicants to fill jobs of a managerial, professional, and technical nature where the supply is comparatively limited.

Mr. JONAS. When you are scheduling an examination to fill a register, are you having difficulty getting competent people to apply and take the examinations?

Mr. MACY. We are still having difficulty in scientific and engineering fields and in some other specialties. We feel even though we may secure an adequate number of competitors in our general examinations, that in order to raise the quality of the competition we need to have an affirmative program of recruitment.

Mr. JONAS. That certainly is an anomalous situation where the country is in a recession and we have unemployment and people are wondering how they will get a job, and here we are spending a halfmillion dollars advertising opportunities for work in the Federal Government.

Mr. MACY. This point is a complicated one.

Mr. THOMAS. It goes from 48 to 63 jobs in the budget request.

. Mr. MACY. That is right. This is 15 additional jobs, an average of one recruiter for each region, plus clerical support in order to extend the recruiting effort.

Mr. JONAS. All right.

Mr. MACY. Just to carry forward on your point, because I want to be as responsive as possible on this, taking the December 1960 unemployment figures it is noted that about 13.5 percent of the total unemployed fall in laborer groups; 5.3 percent in farm labor; 10.5 percent in service workers; and 28 percent in the operatives and kindred occupations where for the most part civil service vacancies do not occur. You have the situation where unemployment exists and yet it is still necessary for the Federal Government to continue to compete with private employers in the scarce skills where the Government programs have a marked need.

Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Jonas, will you yield there?

Mr. JONAS. I vield.

Mr. THOMAS. Is there any agency of Government that is better known to the average person on the street than the Civil Service Commission? I cannot imagine that there is. That goes for the Defense Department, State Department, Department of Agriculture. I will bet there is not a Member of Congress who does not receive an average of 8 or 10 letters a day from people seeking Federal employment; I mean every member. So your agency is well known and I think favorably known, and most of those I get mail from want to work for the Federal Government. They want to work for the Federal Government in preference to almost any employer.

Mr. MACY. Your words are very heartening, Mr. Chairman, but we feel we need to extend our efforts in this area to a greater degree in order to get the quality of people that the responsibility and importance of Federal programs demand at this time.

Mr. JONAS. May I ask one more question here?

Mr. THOMAS. Surely.

RECRUITING IN UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES

Mr. JONAS. Every college of the country has a placement service. Mr. MACY. That is right.

Mr. JONAS. They are trying desperately to find places and suitable places for all their graduates. The highest skilled graduates are having

no difficulty finding jobs. Why is it necessary for you to send people to the colleges when the colleges have competent men in their own placement services? Why can you not just send them the booklets and let them instruct the graduates how to apply and where to apply and what the requirements are? Why is it really necessary for the Federal Government to be competing with industry for college graduates when, as the chairman of this subcommittee said, and I feel the same way about it, there is not any lack of interest on the part of the people generally in going to work for the Federal Government. We have provided so many fringe benefits and Government work is so attractive-far more attractive than work up and down Main Street, at least in the small towns, that I should think you would be overwhelmed with applications and that it would not be necessary to spend all this money and time and effort.

Mr. MACY. Mr. Jonas, I would like to respond to that. I agree with you that the quality of the placement officers in the universities and the quality of our publications are first rate, but there is a competitive situation on each campus. We find that there are private employers that continue to visit the campuses to present the story of employment opportunities with their organizations. We feel that it is important that the Federal Government present in specific terms the opportunities that are available in a Federal career, and that we attract the very best people that we possibly can. Quality is an element that the Federal Government needs in its career service if Federal programs are to be effectively administered.

Mr. JONAS. I did not mean to take so much time.

I

Mr. THOMAS. That is all right. Take all the time you want. think you raised a very important point. I will go one step further. Not only does the Civil Service Commission do this, but I can think of a dozen or so other agencies that send their representatives to the same institutions seeking to get the same employees-the Atomic Energy Commission, more than likely the Space Agency, CIA, and I could name many more.

You might comment on the observation Mr. Jonas and I made about the other agencies doing the same thing you are, Mr. Chairman. Mr. MACY. I shall be happy to comment on that. There are other Federal agencies that are working with the Commission in visiting campuses of colleges and universities to explain their particular Federal career opportunities.

Mr. THOMAS. Why do you not tell them it is your job to do the recruiting and placement of employees, and why should they do your work?

Mr. MACY. We feel this is a joint venture between the Commission and the agencies, and these people will work in the agencies, so that recruiting is more effective if it is a joint venture.

Mr. THOMAS. And why should you do it at all?

Mr. MACY. Because there needs to be overall coordination and what we call institutional recruitment for the Government at large. We think it is more economical for us to serve in the role of assisting the agencies in the development of their campaigns.

Mr. Thomas. Where is the economy involved where a half dozen or dozen agencies are doing exactly the same thing you are?

Mr. MACY. It is not exactly the same thing because they are seeking to fill specific career jobs within the broad framework of the civil