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staff tells me that they have worked with the Secretary of Agriculture in preparing the amendment, which would add this provision, and it gets to the question of definitions, the definition of a distressed area. You can't reach it merely by defining unemployment. Congress should reach the problem of underemployment, and that is what my amendment would do, Mr. Chairman. It would add this language: On page 4 of the Chairman's bill-is it 8555?

The CLERK. Yes.

Mr. HAYS. On page 4 it would add and make available—it would add this new paragraph, numbered (3):

In the case of areas having a substantial percentage of the labor force engaged as farm operators, or workers on farms, or both, the Secretary of Agriculture has determined from available income data and from surveys which may be deemed appropriate that

"(a) the family income within the area is substantially lower than the family income for the United States;

(b) The cash income of farm families is substantially lower than the cash income of nonfarm families within the area, and

(c) There is within the area a substantial amount of under-employment among farm families.

Now, I think when you enlarge your definitions to that extent, and to put it in a capsule, take into account the problem of under-employment as well as the problem of unemployment, this committee, if it acts favorably upon the proposal to deal with the problem of a distressed area generally will render the country a great service, particularly those in the distressed rural areas whose markets have dried up, whose incomes have dwindled and who are no longer contributing units in our economic society.

The problem is partly one of credit. Mr. Rockefeller said, reporting on the problem of finding available credit to promote the little industries that I have described, "It is amazing how little credit there is in the area itself. We need the help of the United States Government," and from the record of the Farm Security Administration in the old days when a similar problem on a larger scale was attacked, the record of repayment is so impressive that I am confident the Government would not lose money in this kind of venture. Now if it were approached strictly from a business standpoint, it would be proved sound, but I have tried to rest my case upon the preservation of our human

resources.

My State has lost 120,000 population since 1950. Add to that the increase of births over deaths, and you have had a startling migration out of Arkansas. We lost enough people between 1940 and 1950 to lose a Congressman, and I regard that as a great tragedy. Some people wouldn't perhaps. This is our story, Mr. Chairman, and I appeal to the committee to deal sympathetically with the problem that my people are constantly presenting to me, and I believe in all sincerity that this is a typical problem of at least a half-dozen large areas in the United States where our farmers are in trouble.

I am very grateful to the committee for having heard me, and I apologize for having talked that long.

The CHAIRMAN. You have made a very fine statement.

Is that pickle plant a year-round operation?

Mr. HAYS. Yes, sir. I believe that is correct. That is, there is activity there. Now, of course, there is heightened activity at certain

seasons, but I believe they have so geared their operations that they have to bring in some other commodities besides cucumbers for pickling, onions, and perhaps some that are not grown there, but the greatest activity is in the cucumber season.

The CHAIRMAN. Their greatest activity is the season when the farmer is active?

Mr. HAYS. Not strictly, sir. The plant operations are somewhat behind harvesting.

The CHAIRMAN. What proportion of the employment is the local farmer? Do they have to draw their employees from other sources?

Mr. HAYS. No; they have imported no labor whatever. What you have has been an employment in Atkins instead of people moving to California.

Mr. BROWN. Just what would you expect the Government could do to start one of these projects?

Mr. HAYS. It could be making loans available to a small corporation, or conceivably cooperatives. I think the Department of Agriculture has assisted in drawing up this language, and at any rate, Mr. Brown, I would make available loans on liberal terms to smalĺ businesses that wanted to go into agricultural processing. That is the future, I think, of these areas within the South. where population losses are occurring. I think that it probably is in the processing of things that are grown right there.

Mr. BROWN. Isn't that the reason why the Small Business Administration was set up?

Mr. HAYS. Yes, sir. That was within the purposes, but as functioning, the Small Business Administration does not meet this problem. The CHAIRMAN. The State of Kentucky has the same problem you have. When I came here, we had 11 Congressmen, and they reduced it to 9. Now we have eight. But we had a witness here the other day who suggested that our unemployment situation might be met by mass migration of the people to other sections looking for jobs. I don't think that would settle it, do you?

. Mr. HAYS. I certainly do not. I hope we never have a situation in America when migration will be prevented, or that there will be any kind of pressures against the free movement of people, for I think that our economy requires flexibility, and certainly our national ideals require complete freedom of movement, but when we get down to the question of national policy and planning economic policies within the context of freedom, it is obvious that we ought to be trying to anchor people to their accustomed places. Policies should be designed to produce stability of population, rather than that restlessness that puts so many people on the highways. It isn't good for society.

Mr. RAINS. Could I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rains.

Mr. RAINS. I am sorry I didn't get to hear the first part of your statement, Mr. Hays, but you possibly have contributed by bringing in a new problem to this bill, in my opinion. In doing a little research on the matter, I find there are 30 congressional districts in the United States in which this is a vital problem.

I also find as a matter of fact that the bill which has been introduced at the suggestion of the administration was a suggestion in the Randall Commission report, having to do with exports, and so forth, and I

was of the opinion frankly that there were so many places in the United States and I have some of the disaster areas, like the chairman. Therefore I can speak from personal observation-but the problem of unemployment in certain areas in my opinion wouldn't be sufficient to pass this bill when there are other areas that have by nature the very same things which this bill seeks to create, who have underemployment, as you so well stated, that is just as essential and vital as the man who once had a job and now is out.

I say that you present-you give this bill a broader aspect, because there are great areas in America, not only in the South but elsewhere, cities and towns, that have all of the qualifications for an industry now but they never have had one, and as a result there is unemployment or underemployment, is a better word. Like Mr. Brown; I was wondering just now, in recognition of the problem itself, just how the Government would go about doing this, and I asked Mr. Barkin, the research director of CIO, a number of questions the other day. He insists there is not to be any grants, but there is to be loans, such as you suggested.

Then I asked him, and now I will ask you this question:

Would the loans be made to people who are going to put the industry in and know how to operate it, or would they be made to just a cooperative who in turn would get an industry?

How do you visualize that operation?

Mr. HAYS. I visualize it as including both, but primarily private enterprise, as we generally define it. I think the language that is drawn, since I am building this as a lean-to, to the bill itself, is broad enough to cover cooperatives, but I have thought of it in terms of private enterprise, and since I have used my pickle plant as an illustration, I think I might just stick to that.

That is a privately owned venture, making a little money. They did get some help. They appealed for investors to come in with small contributions.

Now, there are just some opportunities down there that are just waiting for capital that isn't available generally, and I am glad that you and Mr. Brown brought out that point.

Mr. RAINS. You talk about the number of farmers who, because of various reasons in the South-mostly because of acreage controls, who are compelled if they have a decent income, to supplement it with work in plants. I would like to leave you this thought:

In the city of Gadsden, Ala., in which I live, a city of 65,000 people, we have Republic Steel, Goodyear Tire & Rubber, and many industries, 25 percent of the people employed in the mills in that town live on a farm, not inside the city. They are compelled to work in plants in order to implement the income which they once were getting on a farm. It is that type of fellow that you are talking about? Mr. HAYS. Exactly.

I would just emphasize two aspects of this bill, in relation to these people that I have described this morning, and that is, technical assistance and liberal Government loans.

Now, it is ironic that we are spending millions for technical assistance in foreign countries, and yet when we find exactly the same type. of need in certain islands of distress in our own country, we have no technical assistance that is comparable. The committee won't mis

understand me, I thing it is ignoble to set one interest against another, and certainly as a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, I would not speak disparagingly of our technical assistance programs in other countries.

Mr. RAINS. It is a pretty good rule that charity should begin at home. You will go along with that, won't you?

Mr. HAYS. I certainly do.

As Judge Kerr used to begin his speeches on civil functions in the House by quoting St. Paul, "If any provide not for his own he is worse than an infidel."

Mr. NICHOLSON. What is that he said?

Mr. MULTER. No personalities intended.

Mr. BROWN. Will the gentleman yield to me?

Mr. RAINS. Yes.

Mr. BROWN. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

The CHAIRMAN. We have several other witnesses.

We are very glad to have your views.

Mr. HAYS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly appreciate the time you have given me.

The CHAIRMAN. We are always glad to hear from you. We hope you may come back often and give us your views.

Mr. Clerk, you may call the next witness.

The CLERK. The next witness, Mr. Chairman, is Hon. John Saylor from the State of Pennsylvania.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN P. SAYLOR, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE 22D DISTRICT OF THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA

Mr. SAYLOR. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee-
The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed as you please.

Mr. SAYLOR. Mr. Chairman, I listened with a great deal of interest to Hon. Brooks Hays, and I sincerely believe he has presented to your committee an aspect of this type of legislation which heretofore has never come to my attention. I think it is one that should merit the serious consideration of the members of this committee.

I am sorry that time was so short that you could not have continued with him, because I enjoyed his discourse.

Mr. Chairman, as a representative of the District which has had the dubious honor of being listed regularly in the Department of Labor surplus labor directory, I feel particularly qualified to testify in behalf of H. R. 8555, and companion measures.

After experiencing economic ups and downs for many years, the people of my district are convinced that legislation is vital for the protection of both the physical and mental well-being of our citizenry. I might point out that I have offered several bills similar to H. Ř. 8555. One is H. R. 840, now before the Public Works Committee, which would provide for programs of public facilities construction to stimulate employment in areas having a substantial surplus of labor; another is H. R. 8220, before this committee, which will assist areas to develop and maintain stable and diversified economics by a program of financial and technical assistance.

Many of the residents of my district have missed meals at various times during the so-called general prosperity of the postwar period, Mr. Chairman. Many children have not only been undernourished; they have also had to go to school without proper clothing on cold winter days. And homes have of necessity been badly neglected during these no-income periods.

Our people are willing and eager to work. Our district is made up largely of families who through the years have provided the manpower for the development of the steel, coal, glass, and other industries, as well as for agriculture. We sent more than our proportionate share of men and boys to the battlefields of Europe and Asia, and many of them were not back home very long when they began to feel the shock of economic recession. In no case can the unemployment which stalked our industrial communities be attributed to a lack of ambition, industry, or determination on the part of our people.

Government policies are directly responsible for extinguishing the fires of some of our industrial activity, thereby setting off a chain reaction that eventually reached into our business houses. Thus the Federal Government should be eager to assume whatever obligation is involved in the proposed legislation before this committee-not only to compensate for past and current damage to our communities, but also to preclude the possibility of whatever future hardship might threaten.

Most of the members of this distinguished committee are familiar with the economic havoc created in coal-producing and railroad freight centers by excessive oil imports. The impact has been felt in many States and the competition from foreign residual oil created ghost towns with many of the mines still not reopened. Not all the members of this committee were in concurrence on the manner in which our problems should be attacked. All understood that foreign oil competition was having a severe impact on coal, but some felt that efforts should be made at placing our workers in other industries rather than chance a restriction on imports that might create diplomatic entanglements or have a detrimental effect on the Nation's export program.

The fact remains that the consequences of the Federal Government's oil import policies have become generally recognized, and there is almost unanimous agreement that some provision should be made by the Government to alleviate whatever distress is inflicted as a consequence of our foreign trade program. The same conditions are applicable in reference to our glass and ceramics industries, and I am certain that Members from other districts can add a diversity of manufacturers and producers to the list.

When the Senate Subcommittee on Labor held hearings in my district on February 9, one point which I made at the time bears repitition-and that is the serious social problem that was emerging out of the economic confusion brought on by what we believed to be inequitable international trade policies. Within our communities, in the same blocks of the same streets, families whose income was taken away by foreign competition were depending upon surplus foods and the generosity of others for subsistence, while their neighbors employed in occupations not affected by foreign trade were enjoying an unprecedented level of prosperity. Such a situation is highly detrimental to community morale; it is one which can be offset by the type of legislation under consideration here today.

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