Mr. GREEN. And I expected that by the time you would be making the appropriations for next year we would know when this will go into effect.

Mr. GILLETT. Why, to be sure.

Mr. GREEN. By that time we shall know all about it. But we have not quite reached that point yet.

Mr. GILLETT. Can you not find out about it within two or three days?

Mr. GREEN. I should think we might do it pretty soon. It is just a matter of getting hold of Mr. Woods, and seeing what he is able to give us in the way of assurance in regard to getting this power.

Mr. GILLETT. It seems to me that you ought to tell him that we want to make our report on that point. We are going to make our report next week. I think you ought to get together and strike out the coal and all those other things, so that we can get the bill in shape. Otherwise we shall have to guess at it, and perhaps knock out all your men, if you do not.

Mr. GREEN. You would simply shut up the operations of the Library in that event.

Mr. GILLETT. I do not see why. They are going to give you heat next year.

Mr. GREEN. But "next year
Mr. GILLETT. Exactly.

means from next July on.

Mr. GREEN. It is seven months to next July.

Mr. GILLETT. You still have an appropriation for the seven months between now and next July. This bill does not affect that.

Mr. GREEN. I know that; and if, in the meantime, they get everything running in nice shape (which they may do at any time in the next few weeks) that will be all right. They are pretty nearly up to it, but they are having some little difficulties and delays about details, you know. Meanwhile I am keeping up steam, as far as it is necessary, to run my steam pumps and to keep the elevators running. They have furnished the electricity so far as electric power is concerned and electric lighting, and we have been saving coal somewhat through that. Pretty soon, in a few weeks-I do not know exactly when-when they can make this connection and give us the power we shall stop buying coal and turn the money into the Treasury. Mr. GILLETT. Exactly; I understand. But will you not see Mr. Woods within two or three days?

Mr. GREEN. I will do it.

Mr. GILLETT. Please do so, and try to revise this schedule of your force so that we can put it in the bill. It is absurd for us to go on carrying this force in next year's bill when you are not going to use it at all, and we want to know about it. As I say, we are going to report the bill next week.

Mr. GREEN. It may happen that this change can be made half way along between now and next July.

Mr. GILLETT. Exactly; but we are not bothering about that just at present. What we want to know is what you will need from next July on. So, if you can, just fix that up right away, and then fix the other when you please.

Mr. GREEN. In other words, let this year run as it is, and we will turn into the Treasury all the money that we do not need.

I had a conference with

Mr. GILLETT. Will you do that, Mr. Green?
Mr. GREEN. I will do that right away.
Mr. Woods two or three weeks ago, and he said-

Mr. GILLETT. Just tell him we are going to report the bill next week, and we want to be able to fix that up properly.

PIANO.

Mr. GREEN. I want to insert an important clause in this furniture paragraph. I want to add the words "and a piano for the music division."

Mr. GILLETT. What page is that on?

Mr. GREEN. Page 60. I do not ask you to add any money, but simply words authorizing the purchase of a piano.

Mr. GILLETT. What do you want a piano for?

Mr. GREEN. I want authority for buying a piano for the Music Division of the Library.

Mr. GILLETT. Why do you want a piano?

Mr. GREEN. We have one there all the time now. It is loaned to us. Mr. GILLETT. What do you use it for? What is the argument in favor of granting this authority?

Mr. GREEN. They can not properly run a Music Division for the consideration and reading of music and the purchase of it, and all that, without having a piano. It is an important thing for use in connection with that division. When people are over there consulting the Music Division they will need to use it. It is a way of reading music. That is one thing.

Mr. GILLETT. Who wants to use it there?

Mr. GREEN. Why, it is used by many of the people who come in there.

Mr. GILLETT. If there were a dozen people there, would you let one of them go and thump away on the piano?

Mr. GREEN. No; they would be under control. They have had a piano there from the start, for a dozen years. It is borrowed simply because we did not feel that we could buy it.

Mr. GILLETT. Do you pay rent for it?

Mr. GREEN. No.

Mr. GILLETT. Who lends it to you?

Mr. GREEN. Some of the music people down town; some of the music firms.

Mr. GILLETT. Will they not keep on lending it to you and keep it there?

Mr. GREEN. They probably will. The Library needs it. I do not care whether we have one or not, of course.

Mr. GILLETT. We will consider it.

Mr. BINGHAM. You call it furniture, do you?

Mr. GREEN. It is furniture. It is part of the equipment of the establishment. It is an important part of the equipment of the Music Division.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. The Music Division without a piano or an instrument of some kind would be a rather useless thing. The question is whether you want to keep on borrowing a piano or whether you want to buy one?

Mr. GREEN. That is about the way it is. I have not undertaken to buy a piano because I do not think the Comptroller would permit it. In fact, I know the Comptroller does not favor it. Mr. GILLETT. No; I should not think he ought to. Mr. BINGHAM. Now, have you covered everything? Mr. GREEN. Yes.

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 29, 1910.

CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION.

STATEMENT OF GEN. JOHN C. BLACK, PRESIDENT, ACCOMPANIED BY MR. JOHN T. DOYLE, SECRETARY.

INCREASES IN SALARIES.

Mr. BINGHAM. We turn now to page 63 of the bill.
Mr. GILLETT. There is nothing here except this one paragraph.
General BLACK. Everything is touched right here.

Mr. GILLETT. How does this differ from last year? It is right here in one paragraph.

General BLACK. The first difference results from the attempt upon the part of the commission, involving no money, to consolidate its forces for good administration, so as to take in the Rural Carrier Division and make it a constituent part of the rest of the force. The additional amount asked for in the case of the clerical force is made up by a request for an increase in the salaries of the three commissioners. I receive $4,500 as president of the commission, and the other two commissioners receive $4,000 each.

Mr. BINGHAM. Your salary has been increased since you were put in, has it not?

General BLACK. Yes, sir. We ask that the salaries may be equalized, and that $5,000 may be allotted to them, each of us believing that that is the ordinary or less than the ordinary salary paid to gentlemen of our duty and standing in the civil service here in Washington. We ask for an increase of $500 in the salary of the chief examiner. He is now receiving $3,000. We think he ought to receive $3,500. Mr. BINGHAM. How long has he been with you?

General BLACK. About seventeen years; and he was in the public service before that time. We ask for an increase in the salary of the secretary, Mr. Doyle, who has been with the commission twentyseven years, and was in the Government service five years before that time, making thirty-two years of faithful service.

Mr. BINGHAM. He receives how much?

General BLACK. He receives now $2,500. We ask that he may have $3,000. We ask for two chiefs of division, at $2,000 each. That was the old order. We ask for an assistant secretary and chief of division with an increase of $250, and one chief of division, $2,000, instead of those two, making a total increase among the chiefs of divisions of $250, for purposes of good administration, and to pay for most excellent and faithful service. We ask for one examiner, at $2,400, an increase of $1,560, one clerk at $840 being dropped. Mr. BINGHAM. Is that new?

General BLACK. The sum of $1,560 is. That is substantially a $1,560 increase. The most of the remaining changes, Mr. Chairman, in this paragraph

Mr. LIVINGSTON. Take the next one.

General BLACK. "Four examiners, at $1,800 each "-there are four instead of three. It is merely proposed to change the designation of four clerks at $1,800 to four examiners at $1,800.

Mr. BINGHAM. In other words, General, in that paragraph you ask for an increase in compensation of $10,000?

General BLACK. The entire increase asked is $10,420-$8,060 on the office roll and $2,360 on the field.

Mr. GILLETT. Why do you need these new examiners, General? General BLACK. Only one new examiner position asked for. We need it for reasons briefly stated as follows.

Mr. GILLETT. If you have that written, you might hand it to the stenographer.

It

General BLACK. I would rather read it and give it to you now. is very short, you see. Still, if you prefer having it that way, that will do just as well.

Mr. GILLETT. We will read all of it. Anything you have written you had better give to the stenographer, and let us put it in.

General BLACK. All right. The reasons are given there pretty fully.

Mr. GILLETT. That is fully explained, is it? All right.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. That is the reason for the four new ones, is it? General BLACK. That includes the reasons for the one new one, at $2,400, and the reasons for changing the designation of the four clerks to examiners. The reasons in detail are given on page 65. There is a very full statement there.

Mr. GILLETT. In short, I suppose your work is growing tremendously?

General BLACK. It is growing tremendously. That is about what is stated here. It is growing tremendously.

Mr. BINGHAM. When you say "growing tremendously," what do you mean?

Mr. LIVINGSTON. They are putting everything under it.

Mr. BINGHAM. I understand you take in fourth-class postmasters? General BLACK. Yes; about 15,000 of them; and on the 1st of December we will take in all the assistant postmasters and a large number of clerks in second-class post-offices. It makes an increase of about seven or eight thousand men that will come at that date under the competitive service.

Mr. BINGHAM. But they are not examined personally in any form, are they?

General BLACK. They are, indeed, whenever there is call for it. If the assistant postmaster, for instance, is objectionable to the postmaster or to the department an examination may be ordered to test his fitness.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. That is a way to get rid of him?

General BLACK. That is a way to get rid of him and purify the service.

Mr. BINGHAM. Those are exceptional cases?
General BLACK. Those are exceptional cases.
Mr. GILLETT. But they are all to be filled?

General BLACK. They are all to be filled constantly as vacancies

occur.

Mr. BINGHAM. They are largely filled by correspondence, too? General BLACK. They would be filled by examination after the classification is complete.

Mr. GILLETT. And, of course, as the service grows the examination

grows.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. The President is going to recommend putting the balance of the postmasters under it also, I understand.

General BLACK. The whole of them, probably.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. There is only about one thing left, and that is to recommend that Congressmen should go under the civil service. Mr. GILLETT. Are you in arrears, General? Is your work behindhand?

General BLACK. No.

Mr. GILLETT. You are up to date, are you?

General BLACK. We are not behindhand. We are doing current work.

Mr. GILLETT. That is what I wanted to know. Your force is sufficient to keep you up?

General BLACK. The force is not sufficient, except by overtaxing it and by doing some of the work rather slightingly.

FIELD FORCE.

General BLACK. We ask for some new examiners to go out into the field. There are two specific points that I want to urge upon the committee. The substance is written out in full here; but I want to call specific attention to the fact that we need examiners, especially in regard to the rural carriers and fourth-class postmasters and these other field men, that we can send out to look to the verity and correctness of examinations. Our force now numbers between five and six thousand men, including the detailed boards, and our force here at Washington. We want a force that will go out at our direction all through the service and inspect every one of these boards where there is a suspicion of any laxity or any shortcoming of any description, and look to the integrity of the examinations. We have no efficient force for that purpose, and we are asking for aid for that purpose.

Mr. GILLETT. It will be a sort of inspecting and superintending force?

Mr. LIVINGSTON. It seems to me, General, that we could explain that item much better to the House if you would call them inspectors instead of examiners.

General BLACK. Perhaps so. The name of the office is unimportant. The duties are set forth here in the estimates.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. I know; but they will want to know why you want to double your force of examiners; and they will ask, perhaps, a great many questions about it. If we can say that they are inspectors, that will make it plainer.

General BLACK. That is what you can say that they are.

Mr. GILLETT. General, if you are through with that statement, will you give it to the stenographer?