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des the excitement-and I think it merits excitegreements, do you really feel these laws and agreeed by the Turkish Government?

ngressman, we hope so. But again there should be ing and no complacency as if this was an end-all, and ne gist of your question. Absolutely not. This was a vard, a major advance, the psychology, the symbol to the Turkish Government deserves credit for that. We be successful in stopping the trafficking, illegal traffickrrent harvest, and they will be successful in collecting the is planted.

ROS. On page 5 of your statement, you comment on the posi new sources becoming even more important, for example, in st Asia, Burma, Laos, and Thailand. The chairman took the mittee over there and that is the feeling we have returned with. t know how you are going to control drug traffic with our miliapparatus in Southeast Asia that provides lines of communica4, provides money, and provides resources for transportation perrce because we have military forces in Southeast Asia.

Mr. ROSSIDES. It is difficult. I would say this, that the President recognizes this and we are ahead of the game for the first time on the question of there being a substitute supply for the United States. For the U.S. troops there, yes, but that is being worked on vigorously. Hopefully with the number of troops being out of there by next June, that aspect will be reduced significantly.

Mr. KYROS. I recall that during the last congressional recess, in

Another greater problem, Mr. Congressman, on which there should not be any misunderstanding, is the thought that all you have to do is get labs in Marseille and it is over. The labs are not just in Marseille. They are throughout Europe. We hope there would be more pressure put on.

I think Mr. Gross could expand on that.

Mr. Roy. What is the estimate of the total number of pounds of heroin being brought into this Nation at the present time to meet the needs of 250,000 to 300,000 addicts?

Mr. ROSSIDES. I do not know. I have seen the estimates of our own officials. They can range from 3,000 or 4,000 pounds to 10,000 pounds. I just don't know.

Mr. Roy. What is your best estimate as to what percentage of it you are picking up?

Mr. ROSSIDES. We have been having some remarkable success in the last 9 months, but I don't know if we can keep that up. We hope to. I think we are catching a lot more. I would not want to give a percentage figure but let me put it this way-because this is the more important point following the essence of your question-for the first time we are now contending with the smuggler on the basis that he may get hit.

In the past, forget it; 99 out of 100 times he would be in and he could care less about one seizure. Now he may be getting into a financial risk and it may be very expensive when he gets caught at our borders.

Why? Because he has paid a lot of money by that time. It does not cost him if they stop him at the source. I don't know what percentage is being caught. We are not up to 50 percent, I would not want to say, 10, 15, or 20.

I am saying this, though, that I think as part of the multidimensional approach everything has to be tried. Attacking it at the source. in transit, the smuggling, internationally, and so on. But I think our experience in the Customs Service the last 22 years shows we can be more successful than we realize at our borders.

One of the new elements that Stems from the recent appropriation is the fact that a significant loophole was at the border with the light planes. So part of our appropriation would be for equipment to combat that. For the first time we can forsee getting to the 50-50 mark. This means something.

Mr. Roy. If you can get close to that, that is a big deal. Couldn't you make another interpretation that more is being brought in and you are picking up the same percentage?

Mr. ROSSIDES. You could but there are a lot of interpretations. I think it is the interpretation I put on it.

Mr. Roy. I have no other questions.

Mr. HASTINGS. Mr. Chairman, I am particularly delighted to welfellow New Yorker here in this capacity. I am aware of the efforts you have made. I have only one question.

come my

Are you aware of the statement made, I believe, by a BNDD official in Paris, John Cusak, I believe, that if three to five top French millionaries hiding behind a sole legitimate screen were eliminated, we could do away with the heroin traffic in Europe.

Mr. ROSSIDES. I am aware of the comment.
Mr. HASTINGS. Do you have any comment?

Mr. ROSSIDES. I have no comment on the comment.

Mr. HASTINGS. I guess I will have to get Mr. Blount here to ask him. Mr. ROSSIDES. Yes.

Mr. HASTINGS. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Kyros?

Mr. KYROS. I regret that I did not hear all of your testimony, but I will certainly read it carefully.

We made certain agreements with Turkey but it is rumored that this year's crop is still going to be harvested and that the agreement does not apply to it. Is there any truth in it?

Mr. ROSSIDES. Yes, and no, Congressman. The agreement that was entered into between the Government of Turkey and the United States announced by Prime Minister Irim and President Nixon was that 1 year hence because there was a Turkish law that required 1-year notice, or leadtime, about planting-as of June 30, 1972, there will be no further legal planting of opium poppy in Turkey. So they were allowed to harvest and plant. However, part of the agreement was that there would be the special efforts by the Turkish Government because it is a Government monopoly to collect fully the crop that was being harvested in June and July. That is the harvest period. And further there would be a full effort to buy up on the U.S. plan of purchase so that they do not plant and if they do plant, then to purchaes the crop that is to be planted during October, which is this month. This current crop which is being planted will be the last legal crop that can be harvested.

So both of those aspects the administration and the Congress should keep their eye on.

Mr. HASTINGS. Besides the excitement-and I think it merits excitement-about those agreements, do you really feel these laws and agreements can be enforced by the Turkish Government?

Mr. ROSSIDES. Congressman, we hope so. But again there should be no misunderstanding and no complacency as if this was an end-all, and I think that is the gist of your question. Absolutely not. This was a major step forward, a major advance, the psychology, the symbol to the world and the Turkish Government deserves credit for that. We hope they will be successful in stopping the trafficking, illegal trafficking in the current harvest, and they will be successful in collecting the harvest that is planted.

Mr. KYROS. On page 5 of your statement, you comment on the possibility of new sources becoming even more important, for example, in Southeast Asia, Burma, Laos, and Thailand. The chairman took the subcommittee over there and that is the feeling we have returned with. I don't know how you are going to control drug traffic with our military apparatus in Southeast Asia that provides lines of communication, provides money, and provides resources for transportation perforce because we have military forces in Southeast Asia.

Mr. ROSSIDES. It is difficult. I would say this, that the President. recognizes this and we are ahead of the game for the first time on the question of there being a substitute supply for the United States. For the U.S. troops there, yes, but that is being worked on vigorously. Hopefully with the number of troops being out of there by next June, that aspect will be reduced significantly.

Mr. KYROS. I recall that during the last congressional recess, in

We believe that this program will make a major additional contribution to the President's offensive against drug abuse.

INTERPOL

The International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL) plays an important role in providing the mechanism for cooperation and the exchange of information among the law enforcement agenies of all member nations. Earlier this year, the United Nations recog nized Interpol as an intergovernmental organization enabling the two bodies to share and exchange information on narcotic production, trafficking, and consumption as well as providing funds from the Special Fund for Interpol to initiate a narcotic training program for police throughout the world.

As chairman of the U.S. Delegation to the last three annual Interpol general assemblies, and as vice president on the executive committee of the organization, I have urged Interpool vigorously to continue its initiative in sharpening the world enforcement agencies focus on the international narcotic problem at these forums. At the last general assembly held in Ottawa this past September the organization approved resolutions urging severe prison sentences on traf fickers; recommended the strengthening of measures designed to elim inate the illegal cultivation of cannabis; urged that licit opium poppy crops be progressively limited and subsequently eliminated; and urged that the young be educated to the direct and indirect dangers of consumption of cannabis and its derivatives.

In closing, I would like to express Treasury's appreciation of the bipartisan support that the Congress has given the Treasury programs. We realize that this is only a part of the tremendous contribution of the Congress to the attack on the drug abuse problem. The hearings that this committee and others have held have been of great value in gathering the information on drug abuse and organizing it in an understandable manner. Of equal and perhaps greater value has been the effort of those hearings in making the citizens of the country aware of the extent and the nature of the problem, and in enlisting their support for the attempts to solve it.

I want to express our personal thanks for the support and swift action of the Appropriations Subcommittees of the House and Senate in approving the amendment to the Treasury appropriation bill for fiscal year 1972 which made the funds for the new increased programs promptly available to us. This was made possible under the leadership of Chairman Tom Steed and Congressman Howard W. Robison in the House and of Chairman Joseph M. Montoya and Senator J. Caleb Boggs in the Senate.

I assure you that all the personnel in Treasury will do their utmost to express that appreciation in the way I know that each Member of the Congress wants it to be expressed—in the most effective possible attack on the illicit heroin traffic.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(The attachments referred to follow :)

ATTACHMENT 1

DRUG SEIZURES BY FISCAL YEAR-TREASURY DEPARTMENT, BUREAU OF CUSTOMS

RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE CUSTOMS CO-OPERATION COUNCIL ON THE SPONTANEOUS EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION CONCERNING ILLICIT TRAFFIC IN NARCOTIC DRUGS AND PSYCHOTROPIC SUBSTANCES, JUNE 8, 1971

The Customs Co-operation Council, considering that abuse of narcotic drugs and psychotoropic substances constitutes a danger to public health and is prejudicial to Members' economic and social interests;

Considering that the illicit international traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances is a major contribution to the illegal supply of such substances in many countries;

Taking note of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs (New York, 30th March 1961) and of the Convention on Psychotropic Substances (Vienna, 21st February 1971), both drawn up under the auspices of the United Nations;

Having regard to the Recommendation of 5th December 1953 of the Customs Co-operation Council on Mutual Administrative Assistance;

Having regard to the Resolution of 7th June 1967 of the Customs Co-operation Council concerning the prevention of illicit traffic in narcotics, stimulants and similar substances;

Considering that action to combat illicit international traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances can be rendered even more effective by the spontaneous exchange of information between Customs Administrations;

Recommends to Members that their Customs Administration should spontaneously and without delay communicate to other Customs Administrations which may be directly or indirectly concerned any available information concerning: (1) operations which are known or suspected to constitute, or which seem likely to give rise, to illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances, (2) persons known to be engaged in or suspected of engaging in operations referred to in paragraph 1, and vehicles, ships, aircraft and other means of transport used, or suspected of being used, for such operations, (3) new means or methods used for illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances, and (4) products which are newly developed or used as narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances and which are the subject of illicit traffic;

Points out that this exchange of information should be conducted in such a way as to reinforce the activities of the other authorities competent to take action against the abuse of narcotie drugs and psychotropic substances.

Invites Members to consider the possibility of concluding bilateral or multilateral agreements with a view to intensifying action to combat illict traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances. Such agreements might be based on the Council's model bilateral Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance for the prevention, investigation and repression of Customs offences,

Requests Members who accept this Recommendation to notify the Secretary General of their acceptance and of the date from which they will apply the Recommendation. The Secretary General will transmit this information to Members' Customs Administrations.