This is the conclusion of my formal presentation on these four topics, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I was interested in many things that you had to say, Doctor. Your college is a land-grant college, is it not?

Dr. HOVDE. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. And of course we recall that one requirement, and I think about the only requirement, that the Federal Government imposed in making the establishment of land-grant colleges was that there should be military training. Is that correct?

Dr. HOVDE. This was the only quid pro quo asked by the Federal Government, that military science should be taught.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, now, I was interested in what you said about the ROTC, because certainly that falls very directly under the category of national defense, which is the obligation of the Federal Government.

What do you think the Federal Government should do so far as the ROTC students are concerned?

FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR ROTC FACILITIES

Dr. HOVDE. Those institutions which maintain ROTC programs in conjunction with Armed Forces, Army, Navy, and Air Force, require and need facilities to provide the program. These facilities as far as the institutions are concerned take a very low priority as compared to all of the other needs of every collegiate institution with which I am familiar.

The institutions argue that this is a program in the interest of national defense, and this is vested in the Federal Government. If the Armed Forces think that this ROTC program is worth continuing, as a source of supply of new young officers, it is up to the Armed Forces to see to it that the colleges and institutions have the necessary wherewithal to do the program effectively and well. It is just that simple.

The CHAIRMAN. When you speak about the program, are you thinking perhaps in terms of physical facilities?

Dr. HOVDE. Yes, in general the Armed Forces supply the officers used in the instruction program.

The CHAIRMAN. You have said officers are detailed from the Armed Forces for instruction purposes. But beyond that the Federal Government does not do very much, does it?

Dr. HOVDE. Very little, sir.

We built at my institution the first half of a building for the Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps, some 8 or 10 years ago, on the promise that the Navy would build the other half. It has been 8 or 10 years since we provided money to build our half, and we are still waiting for the Navy to build its half of the Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps laboratory and instructional area.

The CHAIRMAN. How many ROTC students do you have at Purdue today?

Dr. HOVDE. The ROTC enrollment at my institution is of the order of 5,000 students.

ENROLLMENT AT PURDUE UNIVERSITY

The CHAIRMAN. How many students do you have altogether? Dr. HOVDE. 13,000.

The CHAIRMAN. How does your enrollment compare today, say, with what it was 10 years ago?

Dr. HOVDE. The highest enrollment of the institution was in 1948, when we had essentially two generations of college students in residence simultaneously. The enrollment in 1948 was just under 15,000. The CHAIRMAN. But it is some 13,000 even today?

Dr. HOVDE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You feel that if the Federal Government did do more on ROTC that would be more helpful to your institution?

Dr. HOVDE. We are interested in doing a good job with the ROTC. I want no part of a poor program. It has either to be good or we throw it out. There is too much to be done by my students with respect to other types of learning than to devote the time to a program that is not useful or wise. We have had a long history of ROTC performance at my institution, as a land grant institution, and we are proud of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Doctor, as a State institution, of course, you pretty well have to admit, I take it, any boy or girl who meets the administrative qualifications, is that right?

Dr. HOVDE. In general, this is correct. Any graduate of a high school in the State of Indiana who meets the entrance requirements for the institution in terms of the entrance requirements set for each school, can be admitted. My institution happens to have the responsibility for engineering, agriculture, pharmacy, home economics, veterinary medicine.

It is a scientific institution primarily, and we grant only bachelor of science degrees at the end of the 4-year courses.

COLLEGE HOUSING LOANS

The CHAIRMAN. You would like to see the Federal Government extend its college housing loan program to college facilities generally, is that right?

Dr. HOVDE. Well, the problem is clear to every one, Senator. In the next decade we know that the number of students who will go on from our high schools into college will double, at least. My own institution, if we continue to take only the percentage we have taken in the postwar years of high-school graduates, has a potential of going to 30,000 students by 1970.

This is true for the entire higher educational system just to take care of the increased number of babies that have been born in this country since 1941. The birth rate still goes up and it is again becoming fashionable to have large families.

PERCENTAGE TAKING SCIENCE COURSES

The CHAIRMAN. Could you give us a figure or an estimate of what percent of your 13,000 students are taking courses and really going forward with work in science and mathematics and engineering or foreign languages?

Dr. HOVDE. All of my students with very few exceptions are working for bachelor of science degrees, since my institution happens to be primarily a scientific institution. I have roughly about 6,000 engineers at Purdue. I think it is the largest engineering school in the world counting full-time enrollment only. Also Purdue instructs large numbers of students in mathematics and chemistry and physics and the biological sciences which are the basic sciences underlying agriculture and pharmacy and veterinary medicine and home economics.

The CHAIRMAN. You might also include medicine, in the biological sciences?

Dr. HOVDE. Purdue does not have a medical school but the plant and animal sciences are basic to medical progress.

The CHAIRMAN. The biological sciences would constitute a base, would it not?

Dr. HOVDE. Also, for all of the fields of plant and animal life, yes. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Smith, do you have any questions?

Senator SMITH. Doctor, I am very much interested in some of your comments. Do I understand that Purdue primarily is an engineering school?

INDIANA INSTITUTIONS

Dr. HOVDE. In Indiana we have wisely divided the responsibility for professional training beyond the high school between the university located at Bloomington, and my institution in Lafayette, and the two State teachers colleges. As I indicated before, my institution has engineering, agriculture, pharmacy, home economics, and veterinary medicine. Indiana has law, medicine, journalism, and music and the liberal arts school, and business administration.

Senator SMITH. You look primarily, I take it, to the government of the State of Indiana for your finances, and you don't rely on the Federal Government at all?

Dr. HOVDE. Yes, the school of agriculture experimentation, and the extension division, in the field of agriculture, since their formation have been supported with Federal funds and indeed my institution grew out of a Federal act-the so-called Morrill Act. We were created by Federal act.

Senator SMITH. That is the Federal land grant?

Dr. HOVDE. Yes, it was roughly 300,000 acres of land, and it was sold following the Civil War, for approximately $300,000. This sum has been on deposit in the treasury of the State as the original endowment of my institution, and it still is valued at $300,000 and produces about $10.000 a year income to my institution.

Senator SMITH. Do you have Federal representation on your board of trustees?

Dr. HOVDE. No, sir, they are all appointed by the Governor of the State.

Senator SMITH. So you have not had any conflict between Federal and State government in the administration of the college?

Dr. HOVDE. Not to my knowledge. The Extension Service operates under a cooperative agreement between the Department of Agriculture and the land-grant institutions in each of the States. That cooperation has worked very well.

Senator SMITH. Are you familiar with the President's message of yesterday with regard to setting up scholarships and so on? Dr. HOVDE. I have read the reports in the papers, yes, sir.

SCHOLARSHIPS IN SCIENCE

Senator SMITH. Do you think that in the light of the sputnik situation such scholarships should be given primarily in the field of science or do you think that they should be given in all fields of knowledge, with science getting its normal proportion?

Dr. HOVDE. Personally I happen to believe that we should support our talent and not waste any of our talent and I would not limit such scholarships to students of science and engineering. I think this is unwise in the long run.

It takes more than scientists and engineers to manage and run a government and a society, in my judgment.

Senator SMITH. We are rather appalled by the facts that have been given to us, that possibly 200,000 high-school students every year fail to go on to college. This is one of the things we are bothered about. We are trying to find out who the top people are in that group and to do something about giving them the opportunity to continue their education.

Dr. HOVDE. I think this is very wise. Even if this is started now, the payoff will not come for a good many years.

Senator SMITH. We cannot start too soon, in other words.

Dr. HOVDE. Not in my judgment. If you waste resources, Senator this is just foolish. Wherever you see wasted resources, one ought to do something about it. If not the Federal Government, then local government or private people should be stimulated to do something.

Senator SMITH. Well, I agree with that of course, and I think we must act in the most practical and effective and quickest way so that we won't lose these young people. Do you think there has been too much tendency in the last 25 or 30 years to adopt the theory of teaching that the child should study what he is interested in, instead of giving all students certain fundamentals like basic science?

INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES

Dr. HOVDE. When you deal with people one of the first things you learn is that every individual is a different and separate and distinct entity. If you look at the distribution of any type and kind or quality of attribute, you get a standard distribution curve of all of your people. If we have the problem in our communities throughout the Nation of educating up to 75 percent of the 14- to 18-year-old group, the only group that does not finish high school are the very, very low group in intellectual ability.

If you have 75 percent of our people essentially finishing high school, this 75 percent of our people are distributed throughout the full range of intellectual ability from the best to the poorest.

The problem of providing a general education for living in our American society is a most difficult one for the managers of our secondary school system. What is easy for one student is very, very difficult for another.

The problem is to select and differentiate among your students, to try to guide and counsel them and then provide the educational experience and opportunity which the individual has the capability of mastering, or learning effectively. This is a big job. Education is an individualistic job in the last analysis because all of us are separate individual entities. We do our learning throughout our lifetimes. No one else can do your learning for you. You have to be put in an environment of teachers and students which is stimulating and motivating. You have to be given learning tasks which you have the requisite ability to perform. To try to perform a learning task over a long period of time which a student simply cannot perform is a waste of both the teacher's time and the student's time.

THE "INVESTIGATIVE ATTITUDE”

Senator SMITH. It is not as much a question of the quantity of knowledge which a student may take in as much as the attitude of mind that he develops in his studies. At Princeton we used the expression "investigative attitude," and we thought if we could instill that attitude in the students, they would be apt to go on to advanced study. I don't know how to instill that attitude generally. I have tried to do it individually and, as you say, it is an individual job.

Dr. HOVDE. I think Mr. Senator you have a splendid record of performance in this regard.

The greatest university in the land would be the university that succeeded in putting one simple point across to a student, namely that education is a never-ending process and it goes on until you die.

It has to be self-motivated and self-generated and self-propelled. Senator SMITH. And you pursue it all through life. If you do not follow it through, you stagnate.

Dr. HOVDE. Then you stagnate intellectually. It is a continuous process.

Senator SMITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Thurmond.

Senator THURMOND. Doctor, I am very much interested in the ROTC program which our distinguished chairman just queried you about. Dr. HOVDE. Yes, Senator.

RECOMMENDATIONS CONCERNING ROTC

Senator THURMOND. I would like to clarify in just a few words, the specific recommendations that you make to prove it. As I understood it, one thing would be adequate buildings. Just what else do you recommend to the ROTC system?

Dr. HOVDE. First of all, I spoke primarily to the facilities. There have been Armed Forces facilities bills before the Congress for the past 10 or 12 years. I do not remember what happened to all of these bills, but I do not thing they ever got out of committee.

Senator THURMOND. It is buildings you are speaking of?

Dr. HOVDE. ROTC facilities.

Senator THURMOND. What else do you recommend?

Dr. HOVDE. With respect to the staffing of ROTC units, there has been a progressive deterioration in grade and rank of the officers